JSP Malt Mill vs AHB Cereal Killer vs ...? Help!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Severe (chestnut-faced) thanks, never had a problem with him he is curt and his answers are based in the fact that he has been asked these questions thousands of times and knows his machines inside out so gets a little short sometimes when he answers their question and they start with the "what if's" he has personally answered all of my questions within 24 hours. I enjoy the short and to the point answers. I had a concentric knob pin bend when I caught a rock in with my grain I started to explain and he said "I just need your address" part came next day red I like that kind of answer. :D
 
passedpawn said:
Yep, the malt mill and Jack Schmidling (JSP = Jack Schmidling Productions) go way back. Here's a post of his from '93 on Home Brew Digest. He was innovating homebrew gear back then.

His post isn't really remarkable, but if you look 3 posts above it, you'll see something that might surprise you.

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/1192.html#1192-9
Click to expand...

Woah!
 
All 4 models: JSP maltmill, Barley Crusher, Crankandstein, and Monster Mill are made in the USA. JSP and Barley crusher explicity state a lifetime warranty.

I am leaning towards either the Barebones JSP with a Hopper Deck or the Barley Crusher through Beersmith (a little cheaper--$110 for the 7 lb hopper, $133 for the 15 lb). I think I'm leaning more toward the Barley Crusher as it is fully assembled.

My thoughts so far. (I need to stop thinking some much and just do it. I know, I know.)
 
I should probably post an update.

The my Monster MM2-2.0 arrived with the stainless upgrade. Indeed, the shaft was automatically upgraded to 1/2". Had to use my cordless drill this time on it because the two corded drills I'm trying to kill off both have 3/8" chucks. Also bought their hopper and base.

Base is nothing special. Didn't expect it to be. Just a well-routed piece of MDF. I can't really think of any way to improve on it. I may add feet underneath to lock it in one spot on the bucket, but it wasn't really an issue anyway. I understand that Monster can't do this for us because we all have different sized buckets.

The hopper went together easy enough. I had a hard time deciphering the instructions (wordless, like Ikea's) after a few beers, but they were easier to understand the next morning when I looked back at them. Indeed, it's very thick material. Very stiff. I'd feel comfortable flipping it over and standing on it as a 6'0" 180# man. Only downsize is that I sheered off a bolt assembling the hopper. Mid-grade Chinese bolts. In hindsight, I probably didn't need to be torquing them way down with a socket wrench just to join two pieces of sheet metal together. Thankfully extra nuts and bolts were included.

Hopper is a good size; holds about 6-7# if I remember. That's plenty for me. The 10.5 gal APA I was doing called for about 18#, so it took me three hoppers. My brew buddy just kept me topped up.

The description joking says "don't even think about asking for a hand crank" or somesuch. This is true. The rollers are massive and solid stainless, not hollow like some other models. They have quite a bit of inertia once they get going, so your drill needs to have a fair bit of torque. My 18v brushless Lithium Ion drill was up to the job, but I had to brace the drill between my knees to counteract the torque it was putting on my wrist. Once I figured that out, it was cake.

All 18# took less than 5 minutes for both passes. Factory gap (0.045") used. Milled the grain conditioned (~5 oz in 18#). Beautiful crush. Almost perfect intact hulls and germ was crushed to sand grain size. Very little flour made, mostly stuck to the underside of the base.

Very happy with the mill. Would be nice to have it motorized, or mounted on a large base, but I think I'll keep it portable for now that way it is. A two-handled corded drill is certainly recommended. Think I'll get a Harbor Freight version.
 
scsjohn said:
All 4 models: JSP maltmill, Barley Crusher, Crankandstein, and Monster Mill are made in the USA. JSP and Barley crusher explicity state a lifetime warranty.

I am leaning towards either the Barebones JSP with a Hopper Deck or the Barley Crusher through Beersmith (a little cheaper--$110 for the 7 lb hopper, $133 for the 15 lb). I think I'm leaning more toward the Barley Crusher as it is fully assembled.

My thoughts so far. (I need to stop thinking some much and just do it. I know, I know.)
Click to expand...

Yeah. Just Do It.(R)(TM)(C)

Lifetime warranties are great and all, but I rarely find myself using them. By the time you wear out a good quality mill, you'll probably be shopping for a version that can take a 5hp motor, has a belt-fed hopper and conveyor to your mash tun, and can process 8000# per hour. ;)

Pull the trigger already! :D
 
thadius856 said:
All 18# took less than 5 minutes for both passes. Factory gap (0.045") used. Milled the grain conditioned (~5 oz in 18#). Beautiful crush. Almost perfect intact hulls and germ was crushed to sand grain size. Very little flour made, mostly stuck to the underside of the base.
Click to expand...


How did your efficiency compare to your previous experience?

I cranked my barley crusher down to .025 last weekend using conditioned grain. Efficiency was 77%, almost exactly the same as the prior batch of the same recipe...76%' using same mill and a .030 setting(also conditioned).

Did get some gummy flour in my knurls this time so I probably didn't do as good of a job conditioning. I'm just sprinkling water (2% by weight) on grain while mixing. Probably need to work on the technique.
 
eric19312 said:
How did your efficiency compare to your previous experience?

I cranked my barley crusher down to .025 last weekend using conditioned grain. Efficiency was 77%, almost exactly the same as the prior batch of the same recipe...76%' using same mill and a .030 setting(also conditioned).

Did get some gummy flour in my knurls this time so I probably didn't do as good of a job conditioning. I'm just sprinkling water (2% by weight) on grain while mixing. Probably need to work on the technique.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Was my first all-grain, so I can't comment on comparison of efficiency.

BeerSmith tells me my mash efficiency was 85.6% using a rectangular cooler, single sparge. The crush chouldn't have been too terrible.
 
thadius856 said:
Yeah. Just Do It.(R)(TM)(C)

Lifetime warranties are great and all, but I rarely find myself using them. By the time you wear out a good quality mill, you'll probably be shopping for a version that can take a 5hp motor, has a belt-fed hopper and conveyor to your mash tun, and can process 8000# per hour. ;)

Pull the trigger already! :D
Click to expand...

Nice to have I bent a concentric knob (my fault) and it was shipped overnite so I could brew for the weekend I love my malt mill I ran 8 plus bags every year i wouldn't trade it for any other
 
thadius856 said:
Yeah. Just Do It.(R)(TM)(C)

Lifetime warranties are great and all, but I rarely find myself using them. By the time you wear out a good quality mill, you'll probably be shopping for a version that can take a 5hp motor, has a belt-fed hopper and conveyor to your mash tun, and can process 8000# per hour. ;)

Pull the trigger already! :D
Click to expand...

Because of your message I ALMOST pulled the trigger (yesterday). I am confindent (sorta) that I'll do it today!

Thanks for the push.
 
Did it! Purchased the Crankandstein 2A with hopper and base.

Thanks for everyone's help, suggestions, opinions!!

Said it'll be about three weeks before it arrives, but I'm in no hurry.
 
scsjohn said:
Did it! Purchased the Crankandstein 2A with hopper and base.

Thanks for everyone's help, suggestions, opinions!!

Said it'll be about three weeks before it arrives, but I'm in no hurry.
Click to expand...

Bump. Have you received your C&S 2A yet? Thoughts?
 
scsjohn said:
I haven't received it yet. Ordered on 2/16/13, and still no mill. :(
Click to expand...

Yikes. He was quoting me a 4-week backlog. I realize waiting a month for a lifetime purchase shouldn't be a big deal, but somehow it is.
 
Meanwhile, I ordered my Monster Mills MM2-2.0 in Stainless on 27 Jan 2013 at 7:24pm (Sunday night), tracking number issued the following day, picked up by the USPS on 01 Feb 2013 (Friday morning) due to a "backlog and parts delay", was in my hands and assembled 04 Feb 2013 (Monday at noon). Fred was apologetic that it took that long to ship out.

BeerSmith shows that my mill has so far processed:

Code: 
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
14 lbs 8.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.7 % 
3 lbs 10.2 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.2 % 
2 lbs 2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.9 % 
1 lbs 13.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.6 % 
1 lbs 13.1 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 7.6 % 
14 lbs 8.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.7 % 
3 lbs 10.2 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.2 % 
2 lbs 2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.9 % 
1 lbs 13.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.6 % 
1 lbs 13.1 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 7.6 % 
11 lbs 3.2 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 77.6 % 
1 lbs 7.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (15.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.0 % 
15.9 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 % 
12.8 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 5.5 % 
9 lbs 10.6 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 73.1 % 
2 lbs 13.7 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 21.6 % 
11.3 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.4 % 
14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 100.0 % 
10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 68.3 % 
4 lbs Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 2 26.0 % 
14.0 oz Rice, Minute (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 % 
24 lbs 2.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 78.4 % 
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (2.8 SRM) Grain 2 11.4 % 
2 lbs 1.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.8 % 
1 lbs 0.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.4 % 
18 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.7 % 
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.3 % 
1 lbs Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.7 % 
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.3 %

I'm very happy with it, especially now that I cranked down the gap. :D
 
+1 MM 2-2.0 Im in the process of burning threw 250 lbs of grain with it, I couldn't be happy'r, also this is the only roller mill that will adjust out far enough to mill corn if I'm not mistaken, it will hold 13 lbs of grain in the first stage hopper, grain is almost overflowing at 13lbs.

Cheers :mug:
 
thadius856 said:
[/code]

I'm very happy with it, especially now that I cranked down the gap. :D
Click to expand...

Just curious what your gap is set at? I have an MM2 2.0 that I got for x-mas and I have it at a really tight .040 on the feeler gauge. Wondering what others are not. Sorry to Hijack!!:off:
 
beaksnbeer said:
Just think you would have the malt mill by now. ;)
Click to expand...

Well------total disclosure. I did get the malt mill, too. It was here within 4-5 days after ordering it. I got the base P model with non-adjustable rollers. I wanted to try it out and figure that if I didn't like it I could most likely sell it.

I, probably like most homebrewers, also dream of the day of opening a brewery or homebrew store, and thought I could always use a mill for the (imaginary) store. :)

I have not used the JSP mill yet, but will now that I'm on work for a few days.
 
Well, I did alotta brewing this week. Total of 20 gallons. The malt mill is amazing!! Amazing! I ground the first time by hand and it got old after a few minutes, and the hopper is kinda small. It only hold about three pounds of grain. But I visited the company website, found the dimensions for the "large hopper adapter", made and attached a larger hopper. I went through 13 lbs of grain in 3 minute 40 seconds. I love it!

Still no word on the crankandstein mill. Really considering just cancelling the order. I did want to do some testing, but now I really like the JSP maltmill. I've also heard a few folks complain about Mr. Schmidling, the designer/manufacturer. But every time I've emailed, he's been super helpful! Short responses but they were appropriate.
 
Brewed three batches two weekends ago. OG's were 1.039, 1.037, 1.065. Hit 81-83% mash efficiency each time using the MM2-2.0 at what I thought was 0.040" gap.

Went to re-gap today to 0.035" and the gap looked oddly large. Checked the set screws, everything is nice and tight. I think I set it a little wide last time not using the feeler gauges properly.

Just cranked down to 0.037" and ran through. Crush looks better. Pictures will be posted in this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/rate-my-crush-mm2-2-0-factory-gap-393176/

Target OG is 1.051, so we'll see if mash efficiency rises again or not.
 
Went terribly.

Mashed in at the right temperature, with the right quantity. Pre-heated, even. Stirred well, no dough balls. Checked temp 5 minutes in and was right on the money. Went to mash out and measured temps again right on the money. Everything went incredibly smooth.

Took a pre-boil gravity and found myself at 12 points low (1.031 vs 1.042). Thinking my refractometer must be messed up, I took a hydrometer reading that came out the same (then I dropped it stupidly). That's a 60.8% mash eff on that grain bill.

Came out at the right OG with good hops timings, but half a gallon below where I wanted to be.

The only thing I can think of that I changed over the last 6 or 7 AG batches is that I dumped the sparge water in, stirred, waited 5 minutes, then vorloufed. Normally I dump in the sparge water, wait 5 minutes, stir, then vorlouf. But is that really a 12 point difference?

I don't think I can attribute a drop from 82% mash eff to 61% mash eff on tightening my gap 0.003". Never heard of a efficiency decrease with finer crush, only increase chances of stuck sparges.
 
That sounds like a head scratcher. The order in which you stir the sparge water shouldn't really matter. Must be a conversion issue, maybe pH related. I have had a couple batches come out 6-7 points below my average 75% and conversion is what I am attributing it to as nothing else changed in my process.

I am going to try conditioning my malt for the first time tomorrow and tighten down my gap to .038 to see what effect this has on my efficiency. will report back..
 
12 points for 5 gallon brew that was corrected with 1/2 boil off? Is that correct? 10% of the liquid affected almost 25% of the sugar?

Perhaps an ignorant analysis on my part: would the temp affect the measurements on a Refractometer? I know that using a hydrometer is affected by temp. Sorry if this is annoying.

I wanted to report back that I hit between 70-75% for beer made this past week. I did not condition it, and it was milled once. Now I'm thinking I should mill it twice for BIAB. I was supposed to hit 1.066, and I hit 1.060, though one batch was 1.058. I used a free calculator that said I could hit anywhere from 1.059-1.069 with 75% efficiency.
 
thadius856 said:
Went terribly.

Mashed in at the right temperature, with the right quantity. Pre-heated, even. Stirred well, no dough balls. Checked temp 5 minutes in and was right on the money. Went to mash out and measured temps again right on the money. Everything went incredibly smooth.

Took a pre-boil gravity and found myself at 12 points low (1.031 vs 1.042). Thinking my refractometer must be messed up, I took a hydrometer reading that came out the same (then I dropped it stupidly). That's a 60.8% mash eff on that grain bill.

Came out at the right OG with good hops timings, but half a gallon below where I wanted to be.

The only thing I can think of that I changed over the last 6 or 7 AG batches is that I dumped the sparge water in, stirred, waited 5 minutes, then vorloufed. Normally I dump in the sparge water, wait 5 minutes, stir, then vorlouf. But is that really a 12 point difference?

I don't think I can attribute a drop from 82% mash eff to 61% mash eff on tightening my gap 0.003". Never heard of a efficiency decrease with finer crush, only increase chances of stuck sparges.
Click to expand...

May want to check to see if your thermometer is accurate or scale less grain or lower temps are usually the causes of lower SG I have found
 
Well conditioning the grain is gonna take some practice! LOL! I probably sprayed a bit too much water cause during the mill the grain got jammed up in the rollers causing the whole mill and hopper to tip over spilling my grain everywhere!! (I use a base on a bucket). PITA to clean up and finish the milling. Good news is the husks looked awesome and intact while the endosperm was completely crushed. I read the sticky on conditioning in the wiki page on here. I guess it will take some time to get the "feel" right for when the grain has had enough water but not too much, this appears to be a line line to walk. I will let you know how the efficiency is later today.
 
BigRedHopHead said:
Well conditioning the grain is gonna take some practice! LOL! I probably sprayed a bit too much water cause during the mill the grain got jammed up in the rollers causing the whole mill and hopper to tip over spilling my grain everywhere!! (I use a base on a bucket). PITA to clean up and finish the milling. Good news is the husks looked awesome and intact while the endosperm was completely crushed. I read the sticky on conditioning in the wiki page on here. I guess it will take some time to get the "feel" right for when the grain has had enough water but not too much, this appears to be a line line to walk. I will let you know how the efficiency is later today.
Click to expand...

2% by weight is the right amount of water for conditioning

After adding the water (I dribble it in, don't bother spraying) I just pour the damp grain back and forth between 2 buckets to rapidly and thoroughly distribute the moisture. I find 20 transfers is plenty. Then I let the grain rest 15 to 30 min before crushing.
 
beaksnbeer said:
May want to check to see if your thermometer is accurate or scale less grain or lower temps are usually the causes of lower SG I have found
Click to expand...

I use four thermometers in the kitchen. One TheroWorks, one Admientor, and two turkey fryer thermometers. I always check my grain bed temperature with all four simultaneously, a la Wolverine. I'd be really surprised if all 4 went bad at the same time.
 
scsjohn said:
12 points for 5 gallon brew that was corrected with 1/2 boil off? Is that correct? 10% of the liquid affected almost 25% of the sugar?

Perhaps an ignorant analysis on my part: would the temp affect the measurements on a Refractometer? I know that using a hydrometer is affected by temp. Sorry if this is annoying.

I wanted to report back that I hit between 70-75% for beer made this past week. I did not condition it, and it was milled once. Now I'm thinking I should mill it twice for BIAB. I was supposed to hit 1.066, and I hit 1.060, though one batch was 1.058. I used a free calculator that said I could hit anywhere from 1.059-1.069 with 75% efficiency.
Click to expand...

Nah, you read that wrong. Or I wasn't clear enough.

Est Pre-Boil Vol: 12.52 gal
Meas Pre-Boil Vol: 12.70 gal
Est Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.043 SG
Meas Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.031 SG

So, came out of the mash tun 0.2 gallons too much (typical for me) and 12 points low (not typical).

I then extended the boil from 60 minutes to 88 minutes, pushing all hop additions back 28 minutes to retain the same profile. So, instead of boiling off 1.50 gallons, I boiled off 2.20 gallons. How'd I come up with 28 minutes? Kept checking the gravity every 5 minutes as it boiled until I hit 1.043 SG (see above), then I started the 60 minute timer. That just happened to be 28 minutes.

Est Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Meas Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Meas Original Gravity: 1.051 SG

Refractometers are indeed affected by temperature, but this one is ATC. I take my samples by stirring the brew kettle vigorously with my stainless mash paddle, then dripping the liquid that drips off the paddle onto the refractometer lens. Yes, it's 160F-212F liquid.

Leave the refractometer cover open for 30 seconds to allow the liquid to cool, per the manual. Those few drops of liquid cool very rapidly. Close the cover, read the gravity. Works every time. This was the third time I've compared my refractometer to one of my hydrometers, and every time they've been within 1 point of each other using this method.
 
thadius856 said:
Nah, you read that wrong. Or I wasn't clear enough.

Est Pre-Boil Vol: 12.52 gal
Meas Pre-Boil Vol: 12.70 gal
Est Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.043 SG
Meas Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.031 SG

So, came out of the mash tun 0.2 gallons too much (typical for me) and 12 points low (not typical).

I then extended the boil from 60 minutes to 88 minutes, pushing all hop additions back 28 minutes to retain the same profile. So, instead of boiling off 1.50 gallons, I boiled off 2.20 gallons. How'd I come up with 28 minutes? Kept checking the gravity every 5 minutes as it boiled until I hit 1.043 SG (see above), then I started the 60 minute timer. That just happened to be 28 minutes.

Est Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Meas Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Meas Original Gravity: 1.051 SG

Refractometers are indeed affected by temperature, but this one is ATC. I take my samples by stirring the brew kettle vigorously with my stainless mash paddle, then dripping the liquid that drips off the paddle onto the refractometer lens. Yes, it's 160F-212F liquid.

Leave the refractometer cover open for 30 seconds to allow the liquid to cool, per the manual. Those few drops of liquid cool very rapidly. Close the cover, read the gravity. Works every time. This was the third time I've compared my refractometer to one of my hydrometers, and every time they've been within 1 point of each other using this method.
Click to expand...

Thadius856, thanks for the clarification. I thought it was for 5 gallons.
Sounds like I need to invest in a refractometer. I am consistently low and this would allow me to do as you did, and keep checking the gravity during the boil. Smart!
 
BigRedHopHead said:
That sounds like a head scratcher. The order in which you stir the sparge water shouldn't really matter. Must be a conversion issue, maybe pH related. I have had a couple batches come out 6-7 points below my average 75% and conversion is what I am attributing it to as nothing else changed in my process.

I am going to try conditioning my malt for the first time tomorrow and tighten down my gap to .038 to see what effect this has on my efficiency. will report back..
Click to expand...

I'm thinking it's probably pH related. No idea how, as nothing seems to have changed. Maybe the city's water supply went all out of whack for a day?

Probably time I started taking pH samples and learn to use iodine tests in my mashes.
 
scsjohn said:
I visited the company website, found the dimensions for the "large hopper adapter", made and attached a larger hopper. I went through 13 lbs of grain in 3 minute 40 seconds. I love it!
Click to expand...


Can you share the dimensions? I can't seem to find them. Are you using a 5-gal water jug or something else for a hopper? I'd love to see a picture of what you built. Thanks!
 

Similar threads

tennesseean_87
Recirc eBIAB Improvements: Whirpool Recirc, New Mill, Temp Probe, New Bag?
Replies
23
Views
2K
odie
odie
megalomani
Millar's Mill vs. Cereal Killer - Help me decide
Replies
17
Views
7K
megalomani
megalomani
BrewSwag 300

Latest posts

Back
Top