Raw Milk vs. Mass produced Grocery store milk.

Curious what you folks think?

We bought some raw milk for the first time today after reading up and it sounds like its much better for you, your digestive system etc. Yet the FDA and milk pushers say its russian roulette to the point we had to sign a waiver to even buy the stuff saying if it killed us we wouldnt sue.

The people selling the milk have their own free range cattle, no antibotics, no hormones, or any other $hit they pump into commercial cows. These are free range cattle on grass. They had tests from the state showing all milk free from any bugs of any kind. We are both healthy folks with no immune systen problems anyway.

Any of you folks experts on the stuff? Good for the body or we will be dead by sunset ?

I don't have much experience with raw cow's milk- but we got raw goat's milk for years. The problem with unpasteurized milk is that if it's contaminated, you'll get sick.

We trusted our source, and she brought the temperature of the milk from 102 degrees (the temperature out of the goat) to fridge temp (40 degrees) in something like 30 minutes. She also used only sanitized/sterile equipment and handled the goat's teats in a sanitary manner also.

I often used the milk unpasteurized, but sometimes I would pasteurize it if I had a reason to expect a guest with a compromised immune system might ingest some of my soft cheese. (Hard cheese is different- it's aged so no problem with unpasteurized milk).

In many states, it's illegal to buy/sell raw milk.

The people you bought it from probably drink it everyday, so Im sure it is fine.
It might even help your immune system

We drink raw milk but not often because gold is cheaper.

You should go to a farm where they do raw milking and bottling, it's insane the procedures they have to abide by to get and keep their license. Put semiconductor labs to shame.

Yooper said:

In many states, it's illegal to buy/sell raw milk.

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Im my state (UT) it is legal and we bought it at their "outlet" store. She said their cows are very healthy, looked after, free range and get tested all the time.

TxBrew said:

We drink raw milk but not often because gold is cheaper.

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Yeah, a gallon of milk was 6.79. We also bought some free range chicken eggs that were 5.99. Thinking of getting our own hens tho since the city now says we can have them.

I wouldn't have any problem drinking it, but it's so friggin expensive! I'd rather drink pasteurized milk that has had no steroids. Honestly, it only takes one mistake to make you VERY sick. The pasteurization process is the end-point safety feature.

If I had my OWN cow (or other animal) I'd have zero problem with it. But even with all of the regulations in place to prevent bad things from happening, people do make mistakes and some people have been known to bend the rules (gasp!)

That said, the danger is VERY small if you trust the source, and of course raw milk makes the best cheese and other products if you are into that. You might get sick from it, but nobody had died from drinking raw milk in the past 12 years, according to the CDC. (deaths from raw milk were attributed to products produced from the milk, not the milk itself).

You shouldn't be drinking milk at all. I don't for MANY reasons but here all of them...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2003/dec/13/foodanddrink.weekend

My mom grew up putting warm milk on her cereal in the morning right from the cow after grandpa milked it. She always said it was amazing. I'm not sure if I could swing that far kinda grossed me out, but hell people have been drinking raw milk for thousands of years.

Sounds simplistic, but I prefer almost any food from a small scale, sanitary, local source over something that involves a zillion acres or animals combined into a giant vat.

Yeah, the FDA. You can trust the US Government...just ask any Native American...

NoRoom4Error said:

You shouldn't be drinking milk at all. I don't for MANY reasons but here all of them...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2003/dec/13/foodanddrink.weekend

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Thats pasterized milk.Ive made my own personal educated decision for Raw and not pasterized especially homogenized(creates oxidized cholosterol-which in turn= heart disease and a host of other problems).
Although it cant be produced on a mass scale that is where all the lobbyism agaisnt it comes in $$$. FDA uses scare tactics,which the herd will follow. Check out the CDC on sickness/deaths from pasterized milk.Hell just check out pharmacutical death tolls and its "legal" and on the market.

Having a resposible trustable source is key as well as not having a vaunerable sterile immune system like many with overprocessed diets,overphamacuticated,or whatever. Just make your own educated decision. It can safely be produced and is more up to the indivduals immune system which you would also build with it.

Just to give some background from my legal experiences --
Cows are carriers for e.coli in their GI tract but it does not hurt them. The e.coli is spread usually during the processing/recycling/re-use of the dairy water which is because of fecal matter and pasture dirt (cows get washed down before milking, grey water is recycled, etc.)-- a dairy requires a lot of water. I was involved in a case where a dairy had [allegedly] contaminated a nearby lettuce field because of the system of water re-use. Since the lettuce is not heated, people got real sick and some people (young/old) died.

The state dairy inspectors said off the record that they would never drink raw milk.

I have no skin in the game -- Good luck with whatever you decide!

we get raw milk here from Wadel's dairy outside Chambersburg PA - its about 4 dollars a gallon but its very good. after quite a bit of reading and research I won't drink or buy pasteurized milk again - that is some nasty crap.

health wise I think it is a better bet, goat milk is better but we don't have access to a local supplier.

I grew up drinking it, from age 3 to about 15. Every once in a while the cows would eat some leeks (wild onions) and the milk would taste like it so we would drink store bought milk. We couldn't wait to go back to the regular stuff. I actually found a source for it a few years ago but the farmer was feeding his cows something bad because the milk never tasted good. Plus he was Amish so refrigeration wasn't too effective.

KayaBrew said:

Yeah, the FDA. You can trust the US Government...just ask any Native American...

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Actually milk is one of the prime reasons for food regulation. If you go back 100 years and walk into a store that sold milk you *might* find actual cow milk in a container labelled "milk". It's more likely you would find some artificial product by itself or mixed with cow milk. I don't mean an artificial product like powdered milk, I mean stuff like milk fat mixed with coconut oil or coconut fat mixed with water. So the government said if you call it dairy milk it has to be actual cow milk.

I'm not saying regulation is perfect or the product we get from regulation is a superior product but I think we would all agree if you go to the store and buy dairy milk it should come from a cow's utter.

Here's the science:

1. Science has not been able to show that raw milk is better for you in any way.
2. Science has shown that this heating process is the only effective way of killing most of the bacteria (listeria, salmonella, e.coli).
3. Raw milk is responsible for 3 times more hospitalizations than any other foodborne disease outbreak.

What is much healthier than raw or pasteurized milk? Only drink human milk while you are a baby and then quit drinking liquid or milk-based-foods from any animal thereafter. I gave up dairy nearly a year ago. After the dairy addiction went away in a week or two, I never craved or missed it again.

Also, the longer you go without having dairy, the stranger it seems that humans suckle the teat of other species as adults. hahah.

jOitheboat said:

...the stranger it seems that humans suckle the teat of other species as adults. hahah.

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Seems strange until you take a bite of aged cheddar.

I also grew up drinking it, and the best cheeses you´ll get are from raw milk.

jOitheboat said:

Here's the science:

1. Science has not been able to show that raw milk is better for you in any way.
2. Science has shown that this heating process is the only effective way of killing most of the bacteria (listeria, salmonella, e.coli).
3. Raw milk is responsible for 3 times more hospitalizations than any other foodborne disease outbreak.

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Science also told us that fat was bad and margarine was good. Not disagreeing with you on the dairy, just saying there's still a lot to be learned in food science, IMO.

I trust farmers selling direct to me. I don't trust anyone that isn't a farmer.

This includes the FDA, processing plants, commercial "serve the stockholders" groups and grocery stores.

My life isn't free of the groups and rules I don't trust but, when possible, I buy from the farmer.

I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank milk right from the tanks. We'd bottle it every day for our own use and keep it in the fridge. I still drink raw milk. There are scares for why backyard chickens are bad because of the metals in the ground especially in cities. There are harmful pests, harmful bacteria and all kinds of risks of contamination

But the farmers are responsible for so little of the food problems our country has seen. National recalls of broccoli and meats? National... not a town outbreak of E.Coli but a national "don't eat spinach" recall.

The rules and companies that are supposed to keep us safe cause more harm and the processing of our food takes all of the nutrients out of it so I'll trust the farmers and I've never been sick from raw milk.

In fact, I'm 26 and have never had a prescription, taken cough medicine or tylenol. I've never had a cold more than once every 2-3 years and eat a diet almost all grown in my back yard or neighborhood. So I trust raw milk and others should to...trust the farmer and most are proud of their operations and would be happy to give you a tour so just ask...try showing up at Smithfield or Tyson and asking for a factory tour. You'll be escorted off the premises.

TyTanium said:

Science also told us that fat was bad and margarine was good. Not disagreeing with you on the dairy, just saying there's still a lot to be learned in food science, IMO.

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Science isn't perfect- that's what makes it science. Go with the best data at hand and test new hypothesis and update when there is good evidence to do so. I will always pick science over a hunch.

Sure, milk from a small farmer who isn't over populating and isn't pumping his cows full of growth hormones has absolute benefits. Bringing the milk to temperature to sanitize it doesn't negate those benefits.

But food science is a complete joke. Just a few years ago they told us margarine was much better for us than butter. Now they say that was wrong. And they told us eggs were terrible for us. Now they say that was wrong. And they still tell us red wine is good, but when they take the "good" parts and make a drug with it, it doesn't work at all. And our food pyramid always used carbs as a foundation. Seen the rates of diabetes lately?

Now, I'm an engineer so I'm all about math & science, but the fact is human bodies and nutrition is just far too complicated for our reductionist science methods to understand. And milk is a very complicated food that science probably won't understand for a long time.

For those seeking better milk but aren't sure about raw, check out Super Natural (whole fat, of course), which Whole Foods carries. It's low-temperature pasteurized and from grass fed cows. Like most folks, I grew up drinking plain old cheap milk, but this stuff actually has flavor. And it's amazingly tasty!

And p.s. IMHO I see an analogy between raw milk and soil fertility. Current ag practices are to pump our crops full of NPK and let the soil fertility be damned. Who cares about soil microorganisms when some petrochemicals will make the plant turn green overnight. Now people are starting to see how misguided that philosophy is.

Similarly, high-temp pasteurization kills the living stuff in milk, enzymes, bacterias, etc. Are we losing something useful? Who knows. I don't drink raw milk, but I respect the decision to do so.

KayaBrew said:

Yeah, the FDA. You can trust the US Government...just ask any Native American...

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I wasn't going to reply with anything regarding this topic, but I wholeheartedly agree. Just look at all the FDA approved food and drugs that have known carcinogens in them.

Germ theory is not a socialist conspiracy.

jOitheboat said:

Germ theory is not a socialist conspiracy.

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Nice straw man argument. Try again.

I grew up on a small dairy farm with my parents and 3 younger sisters. We all drank raw milk 2 or 3 times a day and most of the food that we ate was prepared with it too. I think there is nothing better and the white liquid that they sell in the grocery store is not even close. We never had any milk related health issues that I know of and we only brought a couple of gallons a day to the house so it never had time to go bad. Now that good fresh Jersey milk is no longer available to me, I seldom ever drink milk anymore. The store bought stuff just "aint right".

laradactyl said:

I grew up on a small dairy farm with my parents and 3 younger sisters. We all drank raw milk 2 or 3 times a day and most of the food that we ate was prepared with it too. I think there is nothing better and the white liquid that they sell in the grocery store is not even close. We never had any milk related health issues that I know of and we only brought a couple of gallons a day to the house so it never had time to go bad. Now that good fresh Jersey milk is no longer available to me, I seldom ever drink milk anymore. The store bought stuff just "aint right".

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I don't like to drink milk from the store either, I do make yogurt with it though. I drank raw milk for years and I miss it.

I can tell that someone hasn't grown up around agriculture when they start throwing around words like "hormone free", "grass fed" and "free range". This country boy knows about such marketing strategies.

There isnt a lot of "science" with raw milk because there is no funding. However there has been some studies. If you check out Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures in CA. He has conducted/and funded some actual science I belive,to get down to some more truth about the health matters.

I reccommend making kefir out of it,preferably with kefir grains but kefir powder form works well. It gives me strength and builds the immune system gut ecology in turn making you thrive with health.

There has been science about how pasturized/homogenized milk invades your body negativly and actually reverses bone density and causing hosts of linked diseases. Just so much crap has gone into shelf stability/profits in food processing that it makes me sick and literally everybody that consistanly consumes it sicker because of the "ease" of production. This is just the tip of the iceberg for me about how I came to. Pasturization only began because of overpopulated farms in a city(NY) where they shouldnt be being fed (hate to say it) spent grain from disillaries which is an unnatural cow diet. Yeah they fixed the matter(by pasturizing rancid/infected milk) but the real way they should have done it was to field raise cows naturally grass feeding in their natural habitat. Pasturzation was a quick (cheeper) solution that Mr. Louis Pastur invented. But it works for mass population.People dont get sick....yet(until we develop long term diseases). Which is kinda like aspartame,msg,and all the other crap which I belive is part of a trigger for cancer) Cancer is not inherited it orgionates from something somewhere. Its about long term problems which they have never studied-which seems to be the case always with pharmacutical drugs to mention. And we have stuck with Pasturzation for a long long time. Remember we are experiments in this life-its live and learn and learn from mistakes but its hard when people lobby and fund and invest so much money for profit without caring about health. In turn we are led in a path paved by greed and profit only to make us sicker/dumber without knowing it(because they make laws that protect money and profit for investers/compaines)

There still is alot of complexity about raw milk but one thing that can not be mixed up is that there is milk that is intended to be consumed raw and milk that needs to be pasturized which is mainly the commecialy produced mixed farm-lysteria infested pus milk. There are also people that shouldnt drink it as well.

Im not saying there isnt people who havent gotten sick from milk being intended to drink raw,and maybe some of those issues are the individual persons immune system or the care that went into farming. There are certain rules also that go into drinking raw milk that people that start it need to be educated about.

jonmohno said:

There isnt a lot of "science" with raw milk because there is no funding. However there has been some studies. If you check out Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures in CA. He has conducted/and funded some actual science I belive,to get down to some more truth about the health matters.

I reccommend making kefir out of it,preferably with kefir grains but kefir powder form works well. It gives me strength and builds the immune system gut ecology in turn making you thrive with health.

There has been science about how pasturized/homogenized milk invades your body negativly and actually reverses bone density and causing hosts of linked diseases. Just so much crap has gone into shelf stability/profits in food processing that it makes me sick and literally everybody that consistanly consumes it sicker because of the "ease" of production. This is just the tip of the iceberg for me about how I came to. Pasturization only began because of overpopulated farms in a city(NY) where they shouldnt be being fed (hate to say it) spent grain from disillaries which is an unnatural cow diet. Yeah they fixed the matter(by pasturizing rancid/infected milk) but the real way they should have done it was to field raise cows naturally grass feeding in their natural habitat. Pasturzation was a quick (cheeper) solution that Mr. Louis Pastur invented. But it works for mass population.People dont get sick....yet(until we develop long term diseases). Which is kinda like aspartame,msg,and all the other crap which I belive is part of a trigger for cancer) Cancer is not inherited it orgionates from something somewhere. Its about long term problems which they have never studied-which seems to be the case always with pharmacutical drugs to mention. And we have stuck with Pasturzation for a long long time. Remember we are experiments in this life-its live and learn and learn from mistakes but its hard when people lobby and fund and invest so much money for profit without caring about health. In turn we are led in a path paved by greed and profit only to make us sicker/dumber without knowing it(because they make laws that protect money and profit for investers/compaines)

There still is alot of complexity about raw milk but one thing that can not be mixed up is that there is milk that is intended to be consumed raw and milk that needs to be pasturized which is mainly the commecialy produced mixed farm-lysteria infested pus milk. There are also people that shouldnt drink it as well.

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Gotta say some types of cancer most certainly are inherited. Certain mutations in genes can be inherited which predisposes you for a great risk of cancer. That with lifestyle choices can lead to cancer.

Nothing with the body is black and white.

Fact is humans were not suppose to consume animal milk. You lack lactase (except for babies and some european adults) to effectively digest lactose. Which is why dairy and dairy products lead to digestive issues.

I havent done any research into whether raw milk is any better but I would be surprised.

However I love cheese so Im gonna keep on eating it.

midfielder5 said:

Just to give some background from my legal experiences --
Cows are carriers for e.coli in their GI tract but it does not hurt them. The e.coli is spread usually during the processing/recycling/re-use of the dairy water which is because of fecal matter and pasture dirt (cows get washed down before milking, grey water is recycled, etc.)-- a dairy requires a lot of water. I was involved in a case where a dairy had [allegedly] contaminated a nearby lettuce field because of the system of water re-use. Since the lettuce is not heated, people got real sick and some people (young/old) died.

The state dairy inspectors said off the record that they would never drink raw milk.

I have no skin in the game -- Good luck with whatever you decide!

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Henry22 said:

Gotta say some types of cancer most certainly are inherited. Its a big reason alot choose raw and not pasturized, that and many peoples testimonies claim of allergy resistance because of histimine. Certain mutations in genes can be inherited which predisposes you for a great risk of cancer. That with lifestyle choices can lead to cancer.

Nothing with the body is black and white.

Fact is humans were not suppose to consume animal milk. You lack lactase (except for babies and some european adults) to effectively digest lactose. Which is why dairy and dairy products lead to digestive issues.

I havent done any research into whether raw milk is any better but I would be surprised.

However I love cheese so Im gonna keep on eating it.

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No,your wrong with raw milk you can digest lactose easier because of the enzymes/good bacteria. Are you saying we are not meant to eat animal meat? Uhh and gene mutations? Are you so shure of that,how do you know its not from environment,food,water, air, and etc... which it probably is?

I agree nothing is black/white with each person. Everybody has their own(unknown) nutritional needs.

jonmohno said:

No,your wrong with raw milk you can digest lactose easier because of the enzymes/good bacteria. Are you saying we are not meant to eat animal meat? Uhh and gene mutations? Are you so shure of that,how do you know its not from environment,food,water, air, and etc... which it probably is?

I agree nothing is black/white with each person. Everybody has their own(unknown) nutritional needs.

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Are you not aware that they have identified hundreds if not thousands of genes that are inheritable and predispose someone to cancer. Look up BRCA1 and 2. If you have one of those your chances of breast and cervical cancer go up tremendously (for a woman). I can pull up hundreds of research papers on inheritable cancer genes from google scholar.

I said I hadnt done research into whether raw milk was any better. Most people (except for babies and some european descendents) lack lactose and therefore have trouble digesting cows milk.

No idea where you are getting that I was saying humans couldnt digest meat. We have been eating meat way longer than we have been drinking milk. Hunting began a long time before the domestication of animals. Anyways, proteins are digested in a different way.

If you want a little more information on the safety of raw milk, the following link is a balanced look at raw versus pasteurized.

http://chriskresser.com/raw-milk-reality-is-raw-milk-dangerous

We have raised dairy goats for 14 years now, brought my kids up on raw goat milk and they cringe at the taste of store bought milk.

Edit: the 'Og' in my handle stands for "old goat"

Relation between humans and milking animals goes back milenia, pasteurization less tan 150 years?