Help choosing a SS conical

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bakins

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So, I'm in the market for a conical -- 2 actually. I do 10 gallon batches, but I'd probably split it between 2 conicals so I could move them from brew area to cooler. I'd also want to bottle straight from them. I don't think I could pick up a full 14 gallon conical.

I'm looking at Blichmann , morebeer's new ones, and these: http://conical-fermenter.com/about/attachment/dsc03660/

I'm not 100% concerned about threads vs tri-clamp. I'll probably no-chill in them, so I'll be putting near boiling wort into them. I also will not transfer under pressure.

The chinese ones are pretty cheap and I talked to the guy and he can get 1" dump valves on the 7 gallon ones for about $10 more. I'm not a big fan of the lids, but I'm thinking I may could get a corny lid added. Of course, by the time I spend that much, I'm close to Blichmann money.

The morebeer ones are not cheap and have a 2-3 month lead time.

So, any advice?

(I've already decided I want some, so no need telling me they aren't worth it, just use carboys/buckets, etc.)
 
As a home brewer I would go with the conical-fermenter product, unless of course money was no issue and then might as well spend on the higher priced stuff. Basically it's just a SS container with some fittings, as long as the welds are clean and your pouring in boiling hot wort then you should have no worries.
 
If you're already looking at B3 or Blingmann money, IMO it's silly to even consider 7 gal over the 14's, since they're the SAME price! I can see it for the Chinese ones since there's such a difference in price, but not for the high end ones. I've read more than one thread here and elsewhere from people who bought 7 gallon conicals wishing they had gone larger. I don't use conicals now (I open primary and use corny's for conditioning), but I've been considering getting one of the new 14gal B3's. IMO the new B3 is the best conical out there now. I've also been waiting to see the improved conicals from Chi Company and how much they're going to cost. They look pretty sweet assuming the price is right, and Chi is a good place to do business with.

As for moving a larger fermenter, unless you have stairs, you can fit them with casters and wheel them around (this is what I will do if I get one.)

MrH
 
If you're already looking at B3 or Blingmann money, IMO it's silly to even consider 7 gal over the 14's, since they're the SAME price! I can see it for the Chinese ones since there's such a difference in price, but not for the high end ones. I've read more than one thread here and elsewhere from people who bought 7 gallon conicals wishing they had gone larger. I don't use conicals now (I open primary and use corny's for conditioning), but I've been considering getting one of the new 14gal B3's. IMO the new B3 is the best conical out there now. I've also been waiting to see the improved conicals from Chi Company and how much they're going to cost. They look pretty sweet assuming the price is right, and Chi is a good place to do business with.

As for moving a larger fermenter, unless you have stairs, you can fit them with casters and wheel them around (this is what I will do if I get one.)

MrH

This is good news with Matt at CHI having testing done plus any modification requests working with the manufacture for Matt. At least one manufacture is listening to our requests.

bakins; I would sit tight until these new generation conicals become available and Matt comes up with a price allowing you a wider selection to pick from. What I don't understand is all these conicals go from 14.5 to 24 or 27 gallons range, why not a 19 to 20 gallon size for those wanting 15 gallons or 3 full corny's net?
 
If you're already looking at B3 or Blingmann money, IMO it's silly to even consider 7 gal over the 14's, since they're the SAME price! I can see it for the Chinese ones since there's such a difference in price, but not for the high end ones. I've read more than one thread here and elsewhere from people who bought 7 gallon conicals wishing they had gone larger. I don't use conicals now (I open primary and use corny's for conditioning), but I've been considering getting one of the new 14gal B3's. IMO the new B3 is the best conical out there now. I've also been waiting to see the improved conicals from Chi Company and how much they're going to cost. They look pretty sweet assuming the price is right, and Chi is a good place to do business with.

As for moving a larger fermenter, unless you have stairs, you can fit them with casters and wheel them around (this is what I will do if I get one.)

MrH

Not silly to go with the 7 gallon conical if you are only doing 5 gallon batches.
 
If you're already looking at B3 or Blingmann money, IMO it's silly to even consider 7 gal over the 14's, since they're the SAME price!

I can't move a full 14gallon one,that why. And if I split a 10 gallon batch between 2 14 gallon ones,that just seems silly...

I want to no-chill in the conical,ferment, and then keg/bottle straight from it. At this point I'm leaning toward getting 2 of the Stout ones (aka,the chinese ones).
 
bakins; I would sit tight until these new generation conicals become available and Matt comes up with a price allowing you a wider selection to pick from.

Got any more info on these? His site didn't seem to have much info other than "testing, more coming soon." Same with the threads on here.
 
I have a chinese one. works fine for me. I don't even take the valves off to clean it, just soak with oxyclean, then soak with iodaphor.
 
I have a couple of the small SS conicals that were offered on Ebay a while back. For the money, I am more than pleased with them. I have used them alot since I got them back in July. On 10 gallon batches I simply split the batch which allows me to experiment with different yeasts on the same wort. I can see a few more in the future if they are ever offered again.
 
. On 10 gallon batches I simply split the batch which allows me to experiment with different yeasts on the same wort.

Yeah, I do the same thing, as well as "cube-hop" with different hops (add hops directly into cooling vessel when doing no-chill). Plus, four just about $650, I can get 2 of the Stout ones delivered.
 
The morebeer ones are not cheap and have a 2-3 month lead time.

That lead time should be dropping here in a week or so, once we get our lid clamps in stock, so don't let that scare you.
 
The new MoreBeer conicals look the best to me. I haven't seen one in person, but they look great. I would go Chinese over the Blichmann even though John B. is a great guy doing great things for homebrewers. Sorry John.
 
What I don't understand is all these conicals go from 14.5 to 24 or 27 gallons range, why not a 19 to 20 gallon size for those wanting 15 gallons or 3 full corny's net?

I've often wondered that as well. 1/2 barrel seems like a no-brainer...
 
I can't move a full 14gallon one,that why. And if I split a 10 gallon batch between 2 14 gallon ones,that just seems silly...

I didn't get from this why you have to lift it? You can't wheel it around if it has casters?
 
or put the fermenter where you want it to be and pump your wort to it.
 
Not silly to go with the 7 gallon conical if you are only doing 5 gallon batches.

Sure, but the point is for the same price, you have the flexibility to grow if you want. You may be 100% sure today that you will never, ever want to do more than 5 gallons, but we all know how all-consuming this hobby can be, and a (expensive) stainless conical fermenter is something that, given proper care, will be around long after you're dust. You can always ferment 5 gallons in a 14 gallon fermenter. ;)
 
I didn't get from this why you have to lift it? You can't wheel it around if it has casters?

I would torch and bend up a offset tri star frame out of 3/8" or 1/2" x 3" wide stock and make a drop center cart like a piano moving cart with castors to move it around. Weld short pipe stubs 1" high to pocket the legs into. I would not want to pull on each leg separatly risking conical body or weld damage when full. In the cart all three legs would transfer the forces plus the conical's locked in and not able to slide off the cart. Bad back zero lifting at my end.
 
I've often wondered that as well. 1/2 barrel seems like a no-brainer...

Well it has bugged me for many years why they haven't made one for half barrel batches. i'll just add a cones to my spare kegs for my conicals. Call me cheap i'll save $1,200 to $1,400 minus the cost of two cones unless my friend rolls a couple for me at the shop. Labors free but i'll also have the capacity I also want. Weld on legs with a top ring having a "O" ring seal groove with a stainless lid and lock downs.

To add a extended domed top to increase a conical to 27 gallons that dome alone is big dollars plus the conical before adding this extended dome is still below the 1/2 barrels capacity to fill it before adding the dome. Screwed all the way around on what's offered to the public. Just because this is what they offer isn't what's right just live with it, no I say design what we want or build your own, and I will.
 
Got any more info on these? His site didn't seem to have much info other than "testing, more coming soon." Same with the threads on here.

bakins; best bet is to contact Matt at CHI on the progress he'll give you straight answers he's a straight up guy with a big operation up in Antilope California just east of Sac.
 
I have one of these and haven't used it yet (and don't want to get flamed for it) but I'm excited to use it.

http://www.synergymetalworking.com/BrewingEquipment_3.html

All I can say is that the weld at the base is done 'very' well. Smooth like baby butt. And the 4" tri-clamp top is wide enough for me to scrub every part of the inside with a scour pad with no handle- mostly cause of my raging biceps. Also it is another gallon capacity than the 14.5 gal models out there.

It is pressurizable to 60 psi. From what I have researched, the CHI ones are the only fancy pants conicals that can go anywhere past 5 PSI. They are 30, I think. I had a 16" thermowell welded into mine from the top tri-clamp. Easy off for boiling. No weldless bits to unscrew.

This is in the mid $400 range and the only other options at that price are a mini-brew plastic conical and the Chinese imports. Anything 'better' is more than double unless you can find a craiglist.

When I do ferment in them I will post my experiences. Now to get my chamber ready.
 
Sure, but the point is for the same price, you have the flexibility to grow if you want. You may be 100% sure today that you will never, ever want to do more than 5 gallons, but we all know how all-consuming this hobby can be, and a (expensive) stainless conical fermenter is something that, given proper care, will be around long after you're dust. You can always ferment 5 gallons in a 14 gallon fermenter. ;)


Blichmann said he does not recommend fermenting 5 gallons in there 14 gallon version. This is what John had told me.
 
Blichmann said he does not recommend fermenting 5 gallons in there 14 gallon version. This is what John had told me.

That is strange, I e-mailed him asked him about fermenting 5-6g batches in a 14.5g conical I received this response.

"Yes, but you will have less head pressure to push out the yeast so you may
need to use CO2 pressure to push it out. The CO2 from fermentation will
protect the beer from oxidation for aging.

Sincerely,

John Blichmann
Blichmann Engineering, LLC"

With that said, I have done many 5g batches in my 14.5g conical with zero issues.
 
Well don't know what to say as this was many years ago. I can tell you it is one quality product and John is home brewer friendly.
 
Blichmann said he does not recommend fermenting 5 gallons in there 14 gallon version. This is what John had told me.

There is a common misconception that a fermenter must be sized exactly for the brewlength. I don't know where this comes from, but when you think about it, it really doesn't make sense, just like the obsession with closed fermentation in general. If you are on top of your sanitation, pitch the proper quantity of yeast, and use a lid to keep out bugs, you can ferment in any container (i.e., pot) with consistent results, although I wouldn't recommend it with the no-chill method. There were quite a few discussions on the Home Brew Digest back in the '90s about fermenter geometry, and the general consensus was that on the homebrew scale, there are no perceptible differences (ignoring dimensional extremes), meaning that you get the same results fermenting 5 gallons in a corny as you will with a 14 gallon conical (or 15 gallon pot which I use). The best reason to use a conical for me is ease of clarification (trub removal), and yeast harvesting. Top cropping ales is easy enough with an open fermenter, but where I'm living now (PNW), the air is a veritable pea soup of microorganisms I don't know how successful I'll be with open fermenting once I start back up, hence my interest in conicals now.

:mug:
MrH
 
Blichmann said he does not recommend fermenting 5 gallons in there 14 gallon version. This is what John had told me.

That's a bunch of crap they're feeding you, you'll have a growing Co2 blanket what's the problem? Just don't wait too long to dump the trub or it'll become a thick mud.
For $375 for only a converted used keg not a scratch built purpose designed conical I find this way overpriced. JMO. I would rather add a cone to a spare 15.5 gallon keg myself. Granted I'll be out my labor, welding gas, time and the bottom cone cost be it a Toledo or another scratch build rolled cone like my last one I rolled 6 years ago at my friends fab shop for free. These are way too rich for my taste, maybe this works for a person without their own Tig, Mig, lathe or Bridgeport mill equipment. I'll pass besides they haven't yet made a 1/2 barrel net fermenter without adding some overpriced extension dome to a undersized fermenter calling it a higher gallon fermenter. Bling is how clean your empty wallet is with their fat wallets. Sorry i'm speaking my mind here.
 
or put the fermenter where you want it to be and pump your wort to it.

My fermentation cooler is through 2 doors and around a corner from my brew room. I'd need to get near boiling wort into the conical.

I ordered a 7 gallon one to test. We'll see how that goes. I wasn't worried about moving a 14 gallon unit around - I can use casters - but lifting it 24 to 48". I don't want to rack at all after I boil: hot wort into conical, dump trub and yeast, then bottle/keg straight from the conical
 
I didn't get from this why you have to lift it? You can't wheel it around if it has casters?

Have to get it into cooler, which is about 24" from the floor,and then bottle it again if I bottle/keg straight from it. moving 5 gallons of beer in a conical is much easier than moving 10.
 
My fermentation cooler is through 2 doors and around a corner from my brew room. I'd need to get near boiling wort into the conical.

I ordered a 7 gallon one to test. We'll see how that goes. I wasn't worried about moving a 14 gallon unit around - I can use casters - but lifting it 24 to 48". I don't want to rack at all after I boil: hot wort into conical, dump trub and yeast, then bottle/keg straight from the conical

I assume then that you don't use a pump in your rig? If that's the case, then it makes sense, except the part about kegging/bottling. One of the biggest benefits of the $$$ conicals is the fact that they can be pressurized to push the beer with CO2. That's another reason I'm waiting to see prices for the ones CHI Company is looking at...
 
Have to get it into cooler, which is about 24" from the floor,and then bottle it again if I bottle/keg straight from it. moving 5 gallons of beer in a conical is much easier than moving 10.

Understood, and I have no doubt you'll be happy with the one you chose. Like I said, I think it's silly to spend $800-$1k for a 7 gallon fermenter when the 14gal is the same price. BUT, it makes MUCH more sense to go that way when there is a significant difference in price.

BTW, congratulations :D

MrH
 
Understood, and I have no doubt you'll be happy with the one you chose. Like I said, I think it's silly to spend $800-$1k for a 7 gallon fermenter when the 14gal is the same price. BUT, it makes MUCH more sense to go that way when there is a significant difference in price.

Yeah, if I had not found the $275 ones, I was formulating how to just buy 14 gallon ones and put 5 gallons of wort into them. Either that or redo my basement, again.
 
Wow,wish I'd seen that earlier... Anyone used it?

Glad you like. It doesn't have a 60 degree cone, so the only issue I can see is how it collects yeast, so we'll see. But even with a 60 degree cone, you are gonna have some yeast cake still left in the fermenter, right? It more than makes up for it that I can do pressurized ferments and/or condition right in the primary.

And the ease of cleaning I think will be great compared to anything else that isn't tri-clamp. Also really like my thermowell I got installed. I can have it down in the center of the liquid in the middle of primary, and then raise it to the top of the beer line during cold crashing to prevent any ice crystals from forming so I can do pretty cold crashing.

I tried for something that was as close to how a brewpub uses a uni-tank as I could find. This was it compared to even all the fancy pants conicals. Well, the morebeer with on-board temp control is pretty nice....for $2k+.
 
So, you make these? I may be getting in touch. I looked at various ways to do a sanke, but I like the bottom valve idea.

No, not in the slightest. I bought one. Just glad you like my purchase and that my posting about it before I actually put it to use was of value to you. He had one on ebay with all the options I wanted (4" TC on top and 1.5" TC on bottom... I had a 16" theromwell added to the top tri-clamp custom) and it was a great deal. Mid $400's delivered. I would definitely go for that model rather than the non 4" TC model. All I have to do is remove the 2 triclamps and boil and I'm good to go. The weld on the bottom (both actually, but more importantly, the bottom) looks like its factory.

He sells keggle rigs on ebay too sometimes and if I wanted a keggle rig, I'd buy his cause they are a great value too. Very nice to see someone not overcharge for quality work.
 
Just make sure you realize that if you get a thermowell added and you quote a size, he will interpret that as the outside diameter, not the ID. Every one else that sells a tube of some sort (beer line, gas line, etc.) that something goes inside of it describes it in terms of ID. I am having a problem with that, but I'm getting a new probe and if that doesn't work, Aaron is gonna help me fix it. Not a huge deal. Just be aware of that.

I wanted a 3/8" thermowell for my LOVE probe and I got a 3/8" OD with a 1/4" ID. If I were to do it again, I would order my LOVE controller and have the probe shipped to him to verify before he sent both out to me. That wouldn't have added any cost to me since he could slip the probe in the same box.
 
Glad you like. It doesn't have a 60 degree cone, so the only issue I can see is how it collects yeast, so we'll see. But even with a 60 degree cone, you are gonna have some yeast cake still left in the fermenter, right? It more than makes up for it that I can do pressurized ferments and/or condition right in the primary.

And the ease of cleaning I think will be great compared to anything else that isn't tri-clamp. Also really like my thermowell I got installed. I can have it down in the center of the liquid in the middle of primary, and then raise it to the top of the beer line during cold crashing to prevent any ice crystals from forming so I can do pretty cold crashing.

I tried for something that was as close to how a brewpub uses a uni-tank as I could find. This was it compared to even all the fancy pants conicals. Well, the morebeer with on-board temp control is pretty nice....for $2k+.

It doesn't even have a cone. And when i cold crash on my conical I get a nice yeast bed at the bottom with nothing on the sides. But I'm not sure how the cleaning of the sanke keg will be easy when you can't take the lid off and you have ham hands like I do :) You really don't need anything pressurizable to over 3 PSI anyway, because these are not for carbonation, they are for fermentation and the CO2 is for pushing beer into your keg.
 
It doesn't even have a cone. these are not for carbonation

Nope, no cone as I said. We shall see if I can get enough yeast to propagate out of the bottom dump. He says he does so I decided to believe him in stead of buying a plastic conical or chinese import.

By these, I guess you mean yours? I am going to force carbonate during cold crashing in mine and/or do pressurized fermentations - like a uni-tank in a brew pub - albeit without the cone, so then racking carbed beer to a serving vessel. Worth the trade-off for half the price with another gallon capacity especially since I will be brewing as close to 15 gal as I can ferment with. Which is another reason to do pressurized ferments- to keep the krausen down.

And definitely not for the ham handed, but I can touch the bottom with my bare hands and clean all the sides and top dome. I'm no he-man, though.
 
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