Opinions On Ball Valve, Gate Valve, Or Globe Valve For March Pumps

Hello everyone, I ended up buying two March 809 pumps for my Brutus stand (thanks for all who chimed in on my pump model question). I have a question about which is better, using a ball valve, a gate valve, or a globe valve on the pumps for flow control. I have read many posts of people using the Brutus setups saying that it takes some time to fine tune and match the flow rate on the mash tun and the hot liquor tank so they are identical, when using ball valves on the March pumps.

Since flow control is important and matching the flow rate in both vessels is paramount I was wondering if a gate valve is better. I am thinking this since you have more control over the openings in the valve in smaller increments that you can dial in with the gate valve, (and repeat and match on the other pump). If anyone has used these valves or better has used both I would like your opinion.

Also is the gate valve a magnet for gunk, wort, hops etc, to build up or get caught in the valve mechanism? Is it harder to flush out or keep clean? Or is a ball valve the way to go for simple functionality and for being hassel free? Is a globe valve another way to go, or not good for what I need it to do?

I am trying to use all stainless steel parts for my system. I found these two valves in stainless steel, check them out and let me know what you think:

http://www.discovervalve.com/102232/ss_gate_valve_thd.html
http://www.discovervalve.com/102250/ss_globe_valve_thd.html

(Incidentally I bought my 1/2 inch stainless steel needle valves from them for better flame control on my Banjo burners and they were great quality and were an excellent price).
Here is the link: http://www.discovervalve.com/101005/needle_valve_6k_ss.html

I appreciate any feed back and of course I can always use a ball valve if these other types of valves are not up to the task.

I have a direct fired RIMS and initially I used a ball valve for flow control on my pump like most others. I was never happy with it as it was near impossible to adjust with any precision. I switched to a gate valve and it works very well for me. So well, that I also put a gate valve on my elevated HLT to control the gravity flow sparge water. Globe valves will work, but IMO a gate valve would be the better choice. I say this as the gate valves are full port and less likely to trap any debris. Probably easier to clean too. The valves you linked look good, but they are pricey and it appears that they want you to buy more than one at a time. The valves I use are brass. Not as high on the bling scale, but they do the job just fine.

Catt22 said:

I have a direct fired RIMS and initially I used a ball valve for flow control on my pump like most others. I was never happy with it as it was near impossible to adjust with any precision. I switched to a gate valve and it works very well for me. So well, that I also put a gate valve on my elevated HLT to control the gravity flow sparge water. Globe valves will work, but IMO a gate valve would be the better choice. I say this as the gate valves are full port and less likely to trap any debris. Probably easier to clean too. The valves you linked look good, but they are pricey and it appears that they want you to buy more than one at a time. The valves I use are brass. Not as high on the bling scale, but they do the job just fine.

Click to expand...

Thanks Catt22, I know they are a bit pricey but I have seen the 1/2 inch gate valves even higher on other web sites. These are the cheapest so far I have seen for two stainless gate valves this size. You stated that these are good for controlling flow with precision and better than ball valves, and that is the main function that I am looking for the valve to do. I am really leaning towards taking your advice. Do you have a problem with them leaking and not shutting completely off when you need them to after a lot of use? I heard that some gate valves (possibly cheaper ones) deteriorate after a lot of use and have problems not shutting completely off and leaking. I have read a lot of your posts and responses to other posts, and you seem very knowledgeable and you have a lot of hands on experience and I respect your opinions and advice.

Thanks for the reply,

John

Don't even consider a ball valve if flow control is a factor. They are intended for quick on/quick off type operation. You can use them to adjust flow but they will be very inconsistent and a pain to dial in.

A globe valve is excellent for flow control but would probably present more of a problem for keeping them clean and sanitary.


A gate valve is probably the better choice. It will still handle your flow control needs and offers a straight through type construction that probably wouldn't trap as many debris.

Hey John,

I've had no problems at all with the valves leaking or not shutting off completely. These valves are typically designed for relatively high pressure application such as domestic water lines and such. They should last about a millennium or two on your brewing system. They are only in use occasionally and then at no significant pressure. You likely have a few gate valves in your home. The are intended to be used as shut off valves in either the fully opened or fully closed position and left either way for extended periods, often for years at a time. So, we are not really using them for their intended purpose. If you left a gate valve in a partly opened state for a very long time, the "gate" mechanism would likely erode some and it would not close properly against the seat when needed. We won't be subjecting the valves to anything like that kind of abuse, so there is nothing to worry about. Take a close look at a gate valve sometime and it will be clear to you how it works. You can see the "gate" inside rise as you turn the handle. It looks sort of like a guillotine. You could also buy a brass gate valve and test it out on your pump before you buy the stainless ones. The 1/2" ones at Home Depot are about $6 or so IIRC. Thanks for the kind words. Be sure to post back with how you like using the gate valves.

Thanks Finster for chiming in, gotta love those illustrations you posted! I can see what you mean about keeping the globe valves clean. I'm liking those gate valves even more.

Thanks again,

John

Thanks Catt22 for clearing that up. It makes sense that the leak problems I read about with these valves are from home use with water lines and high pressure. The online information I read about gate valves and the comments other people posted when I checked into these valves, were not talking about using the valves for low pressure or for brewing. Your right, the pumps will subject the valves to very low pressure as compared to what it is designed to handle. I will probably order the gate valves this week. I will post back and let you know how they work.

My build is slowly coming along, I grinded the welds flush on all the outside edges of my stand, I sanded the entire stand (it took forever) and polished it to a mirror finish, I mounted my burners, and casters, and am going to mount the pumps this week, I have the Honeywell valves and will do all the plumbing of the gas lines this week also. I am slowly buying all the other items for the build a little at a time and I will post the build picks when I am finished.

Thanks for all the info

John

Hey guys, I just got my stainless steel gate valves that I ordered. Only took two days to deliver to my door! I purchased two of them and although they were a little pricey they are very high quality. They are heavy duty and you can tell they will last for a very long time. The handle turns smooth and you have to turn the handle several full turns to get the gate to move just a little in either direction. There is almost an infinite amount of room for adjustment between the valve being fully open and the valve being fully closed, and you can keep turning and turning (the handle), to get the fine tuned opening that you want.

Also to match the flow rates of both pumps, you can start with the gate valve on the first pump completely off and then open the handle lets say five full turns (as an example). Then turn the other gate valve on the other pump completely off and open it five full turns and you can match the other pump's flow rate easily. If one pump is pumping a little faster or slower than the other you can just turn the handle some more (in either direction), and fine tune it from that point to exactly match the flow rate as the other pump your trying to duplicate.

Very Cool!!!! If you buy these same valves,

http://www.discovervalve.com/102232/ss_gate_valve_thd.html

you will not be disapointed in the quality and the range of control over a ball valve is incredable. Thanks again Catt22 and Finster!! :rockin:

Holly crap that is expensive...But im willing to sacrifice some change for a quality product...just curious what do you mean by match the flow rates of both pumps? why would you want/need to do this...Im curious if this is only for fly sparging? I will be receiving my Brutus with 2 pump mounts, but will only be working with one 809 pump till I get some extra cash...I know to put the valve on the output flow of the pump, but im curious as to why you would need to match the flow rate of the other pump?

I never have had a problem with adjusting my ball valves and I have a rims system somewhat like a sabco setup.
Pat

GillandCo said:

Holly crap that is expensive...But im willing to sacrifice some change for a quality product...just curious what do you mean by match the flow rates of both pumps? why would you want/need to do this...Im curious if this is only for fly sparging? I will be receiving my Brutus with 2 pump mounts, but will only be working with one 809 pump till I get some extra cash...I know to put the valve on the output flow of the pump, but im curious as to why you would need to match the flow rate of the other pump?

Click to expand...

Yes you are right, I want to match the flow rates when I fly sparge. To slow on the HLT pumped into the MLT (or MLT to fast into the BK) and the liquid level will drop below the top of the grain bed and dry out, and not be in contact with all the grain that is available in the MLT, this will mess with conversion efficiency. To fast on the HLT to the MLT is bad also, can flood over the top of the MLT, messes with conversion efficiency, thin wort, etc.

Matching the flow rates of both pumps as close as possible is what Lonnie had in mind when he designed the Brutus, and the clever (I think more like genius) way he attached the returns to the vessel lids. Lonnie does fine using ball valves to match the flow rates of both pumps, (check out his videos on alenuts.com). I don't think I have to use gate valves and I could use ball valves. I just think it will be much easier fo me (after reading other posts), to match the flow rates of both pumps using the gate valves because of the way they are designed and the enormous range of control in small increments, from fully open to fully closed.

Flow rate is also very important to me when I chill the wort down. I live in Florida and the ground water is so warm that I need to use ice in the HLT and be able to slow down the wort going into the fermenter, so it will have more contact time with the colder water in the Therminator, to get the temp down to 68 degrees in a reasonable amount of time. To fast and the wort will be too hot to pitch the yeast when the fermenter is full. That would really suck and this defeats the whole purpose of spending $200 on a Therminator, as I would then have to put the whole carboy in an ice bath to cool the wort down to yeast pitching temperature. I think the gate valve will really help with this and I can dial in the flow rate better to get the perfect speed to acomplish this, and dial it in quickly.

I hope I answered your question. This is just my humble opinion. The great thing about these rigs is you can make them the way you want, and make them your own!

John

lehr said:

I never have had a problem with adjusting my ball valves and I have a rims system somewhat like a sabco setup.
Pat

Click to expand...

Wow! Man that is a thing of beauty!!! I'm not worthy to even comment about which valve is better, your the MASTA!

I don't doubt most everyone using ball valves can acomplish matching the flow rates of both pumps fairly quickly. I didn't mean to imply that ball valves are infearior if that is how it sounded. I just wanted to have the easiest and quickiest repeatable way to match the flow rates, and the gate valves are just another way of getting there. There are many posts with people chiming in on how it is a pain to get it just right and it takes a lot of effort and adjusting. Having never used this type of system before I decided for me it would probably be easier for me to go with the gate valves for my rig. I will post back on how they worked when I finally use them on the maiden brew day (whenever I finally get my rig finished). It's coming along though.......

Man I still can't get over your creation. I'm very impressed! What did you use to make the rectangle plates (with the holes in them) in between your super shiny keggels? Is is a sheet of stainless cut to fit or...?

Yup it answered it...I read through a couple threads regarding valves and where to place them on the pump. It seems like you have done your research and a diagram I saw of gate valve makes it look like the best option...you wouldn't want hop and grub clogging it like you said...I wasn't loosing it then because that's the only reason I could see the need for matching flow rates. You have enlightend me on some of the effects of sparging to fast or to slow...I knew to keep the water a couple inches over the grain bed but never knew the reasoning behind it. Thanks for this thread ideally in a perfect world I would love the SS gate valves for my rig...but I may try a 2 piece ball valve first since I'll only be batch sparging and the flow rate isn't a concern when recirculating the MT. I'll post my results if I learn something other than what has been said. Cheers

"Thanks for this thread ideally in a perfect world I would love the SS gate valves for my rig...but I may try a 2 piece ball valve first since I'll only be batch sparging and the flow rate isn't a concern when recirculating the MT. I'll post my results if I learn something other than what has been said."

You've got it right. Either type of valve will work just fine if you are batch sparging. Also, not saying a ball valve won't work when sparging, but I will say that a gate valve works better, on the pump and the HLT. I've used both on my RIMS, so I'm speaking form direct experience. There is a way to more precisely control a ball valve. All you need to do is put a four foot extension on the handle.