Palmer / Brewing Classic Recipes - yeast question

Why does all his recipes called for TWO Wyeats packets! Is there that big of an advantage to this????

Bang for buck is it worth it?

I don't think he likes making starters. No more reason than that.

There aren't enough yeast cells in one pack to do the job properly.
Most brewers make a starter with liquid yeast a day or two ahead.
Then there are more healthy cells awake and ready to go.

Maybe yeast was cheaper back then, but I'd rather use 50 cents
worth of LME than another 6 dollar vial of yeast.

I wonder if when he says 2 Wyeast American Ale 1056 he is NOT talking about the slap packs the Activator deal???

It's to ensure that you get enough viable yeast for a healthy ferment. If you want to skip a starter you need to use 2 vials or smack packs. A 1L starter will give you approximately the same amount of yeast as 2 vials.

10-11G of properly hydrated dry yeast is also ideal.

Grinder12000 said:

I wonder if when he says 2 Wyeast American Ale 1056 he is NOT talking about the slap packs the Activator deal???

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No, he's actually suggesting two packages. Most of us will do a starter. Even though they say "pitchable" on the packages, they really aren't adequate. You can make a starter a couple of days in advance, though, which will give you enough yeast cells to pitch plus ensure your yeast is viable.

There is a pitching calculator on mrmalty.com that can show you the specifics of yeast cell counts to pitch.

If you look in Appendix A, it explains about pitching rates and starters. There is even a table that will let you "convert" from 2 packs to however many packs with the appropriate starter (in this case one pack and a 2 liter starter).

Or you can use this:
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I don't think that it's that JZ doesn't like making starters, I just think it's easier for him to tell people "use two packets" than it is to give them instructions on starters every time. If you listen to his podcast, he always says "X packets, or an X-mL starter".

egolla said:

Maybe yeast was cheaper back then, but I'd rather use 50 cents
worth of LME than another 6 dollar vial of yeast.

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Actually BCS was published pretty recently, and JZ still, even on his new podcasts, will tell you to use a couple packets...so he's fully aware of the current price of liquid yeast. I think that he's more concerned with making good beer than saving you money...but personally, I'm also of the mindset that pitching two vials/packets is only a last resort, if you don't have time to make a starter or something along those lines. Hell, on a given batch, if the entirety of the ingredients (with one yeast packet) costs me $18, then, depending on where I buy it, another pack of yeast is going to raise my costs by anywhere from 30-50%. Six bucks once or twice isn't a big deal, but after long enough it adds up.

CORRET ME IF I'M WRONG, I JUST ASSUMED HE WAS GIVING ALTERNATIVE YEAST STRAINS FOR THE RECIPE, MORE LIKE AN EITHER OR, NOT BOTH. iF I REMEMBER, THEY WERE NEVER THE SAME BRAND OR STYLE, JUST A WHITE LABS BRAND ,AND THEN ALTERNATIVELY A WYEAST ONE OF SIMILAR STYLE. aTLEAST THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER....

mhot55 said:

CORRET ME IF I'M WRONG, I JUST ASSUMED HE WAS GIVING ALTERNATIVE YEAST STRAINS FOR THE RECIPE, MORE LIKE AN EITHER OR, NOT BOTH. iF I REMEMBER, THEY WERE NEVER THE SAME BRAND OR STYLE, JUST A WHITE LABS BRAND ,AND THEN ALTERNATIVELY A WYEAST ONE OF SIMILAR STYLE. aTLEAST THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER....

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Whoah, there, big fella, no need to yell!

Relax. Take a deep breath. Step away from the caps lock.

Yes, he usually gives 3 choices: a White Labs strain, a Wyeast strain, and a dry strain. The OP wasn't asking about that, he was asking why some recipes call for two whole packets of one yeast. And yes, in addition to giving you 3 yeast choices, he is actually saying to use two packs of that yeast.

Or you could pull about 5 oz or so of slurry from a previous batch and end up with the proper amount of yeast as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but yeast cell count isn't the only consideration, but also the yeast "health"? Making a starter kicks off a new generation of propagation, and hence you have younger cells than what lives in a four-week-old vial of liquid yeast.

Of course, I might be talking out of my ass, here.

ohiobrewtus said:

Or you could pull about 5 oz or so of slurry from a previous batch and end up with the proper amount of yeast as well.

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Or you could skim the early krausen for even better yeast (the good thing about using bucket fermenters, but you have to be very carefull and clean)
The point was he suggests two packs of yeast for people pitching a new beer/style with maybe a different yeast from any other batches the brewer is currently brewing.
It's just an insurance policy really, you don't need it for most beers, especially as he's suggesting two packs for mid range OG beers.
I used to do it with dry yeasts when getting started when I had problems in getting a good beer and suspected infections.
If in doubt make a starter, if you can't be bothered with that, pitch two packs.
I usually brew the same styles and keep brewing until I run out of bottles, using slurry as you suggested, so I haven't bought yeast or made a starter for ages. I just bought two new yeasts for an old ale and a hefe and if they work out and store some slurry from those brews to add to the collection.
edit:

jpsloan said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but yeast cell count isn't the only consideration, but also the yeast "health"? Making a starter kicks off a new generation of propagation, and hence you have younger cells than what lives in a four-week-old vial of liquid yeast.

Of course, I might be talking out of my ass, here.

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Yes, that the main reason for them saying pitch two packs, the yeast in the pack should be enough, but if some of that yeast you bought is unhealthy, then one pack isn't enough. So he's saying pitch two packs because you may have bought yeast not up the the job for the most part.

jpsloan said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but yeast cell count isn't the only consideration, but also the yeast "health"? Making a starter kicks off a new generation of propagation, and hence you have younger cells than what lives in a four-week-old vial of liquid yeast.

Of course, I might be talking out of my ass, here.

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Younger versus older isn't really the issue, this is about viability. The higher number of viable, healthy cells is what you're after, so whether you grow them on your own or you buy more, the result is much the same.

Wait up everyone. I just got the book today. He always says pitch xx packs of yeast or make an appropriate starter

paul_h said:

Wait up everyone. I just got the book today. He always says pitch xx packs of yeast or make an appropriate starter

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Yeah, I figured he did. I just got mine from Amazon yesterday and I hadn't bothered to check.