ginger saison - recipe critique

I was browsing extreme brewing and that was what gave me the idea for a ginger saison After researching it there, in brewing classic styles, and looking at recipes in the database,this is what I came up with.

This is my first attempt at a saison. Please take a look at the recipe and let me know any suggested changes.

Thanks

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: ginger saison
Brewer: steve
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 8.35 gal
Estimated OG: 1.062 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 77.27 %
0.75 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
0.75 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 24.5 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.00 oz crystalied Ginger (Boil 0.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 9.09 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [StarteYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 12.50 qt of water at 162.5 F 148.0 F


Drain Mash Tun
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 2.23 gal of 180.0 F water
Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 2.23 gal of 180.0 F water
Batch Sparge Round 3: Sparge with 2.23 gal of 180.0 F water


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow this recipe must be so awesome that everyone is just staring at their monitors jaw agape, unable to type .

In other words....bump....

The base recipe looks good, Steve. I've not used ginger before, but I think you are on the right track adding it at flameout so as not to volatilize all those wonderful aromatics.

Belgian styles are almost entirely about the yeast character, and you're following the proper tips regarding simplicity. Pils + Munich + Wheat is an awesome combination in this humble brewer's opinion.

Saison should finish bone dry, and your long n' low mash is definitely appropriate. Keep that strain around 80° for fermentation and it will plow through that super-fermentable wort. :rockin:

Thanks Jason. i appreciate the feedback. I'm now not sue if I want to use fresh ginger or crystalized. I usually have both around, so it may be a brew day decision.

With the way the weather has been, I think I'll have to wait a month for it to be warm enough to ferment this puppy.

I never saw this when you first posted it, but it looks awesome!!!!!!

I just brewed my first saison today (a suposed Saison Du Pont clone), and am planning to pitch another one on the yeast cake when it is done in a month....

I was going to do my second one from the May June 08 zymurgy issue https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/belgian-brew-time-124895/,

but this looks so cool and I love ginger....

Since I month long primary I have some time to hear how yours turns out before deciding....

I just posted some of the tips I picked up over the last couple days in this thread here...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/belgian-brew-time-124895/

I dunno if any info there would be helpful....It's a new style to me, so I've done some research the last couple days and talked to a couple people....

Thanks Revvy. I got confirmation that this and two other recipes shipped today from BW. Ed helped me out on a bonehead move of mine without any trouble.

I'll post back on how the beer progresses.

My typical schedule is minimum 3, up to 5 weeks in primary then keg. Is that in line for a saison also?

stevea1210 said:

My typical schedule is minimum 3, up to 5 weeks in primary then keg. Is that in line for a saison also?

Click to expand...

Keep that sucker minimum 80° and it should easily finish in 3-5, but rouse the yeast every 10-14 days.

I'm also going to follow the tip about not adding the sugar until fermentation slows down a bit. i'm thinking dissolve it in a few cups of boiling water to avod any nasties, then cool a bit and feed the yeasties some desert.

stevea1210 said:

I'm also going to follow the tip about not adding the sugar until fermentation slows down a bit. i'm thinking dissolve it in a few cups of boiling water to avod any nasties, then cool a bit and feed the yeasties some desert.

Click to expand...

Yeah...one of my brew buddies, who is also a chef, suggested to put the sugar in the pot, then add only enough water to dampen it, then add 1/2-3/4 cup more of water then boil...you don't want to throw off your volume/gravity, by adding too much more water to your fermenter...

I'm purposefully not turning the air on yet, and when I got home the thermostat which is right by the closet I ferment in was reading 85, and the airclok is still bubbling away....if it slows down tomorrow I plan to add the sugar....but it may still be cranking..it's supposed to get up to 90 tomorrow...I REALLY hope it is pretty done when I get home tomorrow...I want to turn the air on..but I've been holding off to make sure to get some good belgian funk out of the yeast.

So i brewed this yesterday. The only changes were using 2.5 oz of crystalized ginger (instead of 2 oz). Also I ended up using WLP568 instead of Wyeast #3724 due to availability.

The slow and low mash (148 f for 75 min) went great and temps held steady (147f after 75 min). Beersmith said gravity into boiler should have been 1.040, I hit 1.039.

I had an insane hot break, with a near boilover in my 60 qt pot. Turned the gas down a bit and it mellow out long enough to subside. Had another large flare up after adding the late hops, but not as large as the hot break. Other than that, boil was uneventful.

I chopped the ginger up fairly small to give it more surface area prior to adding it at flameout. Chiling was a little problematic as I had an issue with my new submersible pump. I ended up racking it at 83F, which isn't a big deal since it is a saison. The wort had a wonderful but not overpowering smell of ginger as it racked.

I aerated for 20 minutes with my pump. Usually I can't get that much time as the foam overflows out of the BB. This batch however stayed under control and I was able to get a good 20 minute aeration.

Pitched my starter, and put the BB in the downstairs shower. That is the warmest, yet liquid safe area I have. I checked it 4 hours after pitch, and the wort was at 77F, and was already fermenting pretty strong. This morning at 16 hours post pitch, fermentation is going crazy, and I am going to install a blow off before going out today.

The only curiousity I have, I started a seperate thread on. Beersmith said og should be 1.062. I got 1.061. The thing is that I am pretty sure that beersmith og included the grav points for the sugar, which I haven't added yet. So I may be a good 9 points over in gravity. More details are in that thread, if you don't mind taking a look.

I added the pound of turbinado sugar this evening.

Also I bought an aquarium heater, and made a swamp bath out of a rubbermade tote. The temps had dropped when swmbo turned on the AC. With the heater the water temp reads 83, and the fermometor on the BB is saying 79.

so far so good.

How much ginger did you end up using and was it fresh?

How did this end up turning out? Due to my elderly mom's injury I only got to brew twice this summer, so I never got to do another saison. And this summer we never even really got the heat to enjoy them anyway.

I ended up using 3 oz. It was crystalized ginger, not fresh.

I liked it. I got a lot of complimetns on it. Next time I will use more ginger, maybe as much as 6 ozs.

the only problem I had with it was I couldn't get it below 1.012. I wanted it a bit drier than that.

So I made that ginger saison from his book... and there is practically no ginger at all. I have noticed in his recipes that he uses a lot less herbs and spices than other brewers - quantity to gallons wise.

Hhmmm, yep, digging this one up.

So i'm drinking a Left Hand good juju, while working on a saison recipe and it hits me....ginger saison. So anybody else, or the op, have any opinions or experience with ginger? Anybbody use fresh....how much...whats the scoop, brew brethren?

Holy crap! A post I can comment on.

SWMBO loves ginger. A lot. So I make a lot of Beglian inspired ginger beers. In my experience, Wyeast 3711 really works well for this particular type of saison. It accentuates the ginger while drying the beer out but leaving enough heft in the mouthfeel that the ginger doesn't become harsh or almost acrid on the tongue. And that little bit of Special B gives it a very soft background toffee sweetness.

For hops, I don't think the bittering addition matters as long as you're not using something like Chinook and are around the same IBUs, but the Mt. Hood adds an almost medicinal floral element the compliments the whole beer.

This beer is always, always, always on tap. The only problem is that it's a bit strong at 6%+ABV. But I've not tried scaling it down at all.

Here's my recipe:
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 17.8 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 17.8 %
2.00 oz Ginger Root (Boil 5.0 mins) Herb 6 -
0.50 oz Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 29.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 8 -
0.50 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.2 IBUs
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.2 %

EDIT: I use fresh ginger root, grated. Not crystallized or dried.

loapathy said:

Holy crap! A post I can comment on.

SWMBO loves ginger. A lot. So I make a lot of Beglian inspired ginger beers. In my experience, Wyeast 3711 really works well for this particular type of saison. It accentuates the ginger while drying the beer out but leaving enough heft in the mouthfeel that the ginger doesn't become harsh or almost acrid on the tongue. And that little bit of Special B gives it a very soft background toffee sweetness.

For hops, I don't think the bittering addition matters as long as you're not using something like Chinook and are around the same IBUs, but the Mt. Hood adds an almost medicinal floral element the compliments the whole beer.

This beer is always, always, always on tap. The only problem is that it's a bit strong at 6%+ABV. But I've not tried scaling it down at all.

Here's my recipe:
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 17.8 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 17.8 %
2.00 oz Ginger Root (Boil 5.0 mins) Herb 6 -
0.50 oz Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 29.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 8 -
0.50 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.2 IBUs
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.2 %

EDIT: I use fresh ginger root, grated. Not crystallized or dried.

Click to expand...

lopathy, what is your mashing temp/time on this? i want to brew this next weekend in a 10 gallon batch.

I use Wyeast 3711 which eats basically everything, so I mash at 155/156 to try to keep some kind of body. I think if you used the Dupont yeast or something, you may want to try the "149 until complete conversion" mash.

This sounds great! This is going to go in the lineup!

I just brewed this again today, but with Pils instead of Pale for 5lbs of it, and 2lbs of Vienna, due to what I had laying around. We'll see how it works out. Also, I'm trying WLP 670 farmhouse blend, so I split up the ginger addition to 1oz at 15 and .5oz at flamout, with .5 for dry "gingering", to deal with the long secondary, and plan on dry hopping, as well, with some kind of resiny, weed-ish hop like Columbus or something. For this one I mashed at 150 since I've not used WLP 670 yet and don't know how it attenuates.

Looks delicious. Will add to my brew list.

Wreck99 said:

Looks delicious. Will add to my brew list.

Click to expand...

I forgot all about this one... and am happy to have it bumped! I will try to brew this one for the summer. Looks so good!

Just brewed tonight. Can't wait to try it in a few weeks.

Pitched yeast @ 77F. Usually take my brews downstairs were its a little cooler than the main floor, so as to have a nice fermentation. I may leave this one upstairs were ambient temp is 70-72F...based on feedback in this thread.

After almost 3 weeks in the primary, i took a sample tonight and its at 1.032. Thats really high. Any suggestions? Never ran into a brew that didnt fully ferment out. Should i repitch or try rousing the yeast?

I've never had a problem with French Saison finishing higher than expected. Some of the other saison strains, however...

If you used Wyeast 3711, then it could be an issue of Mash temp? Although I've accidentally mashed @162 and still had 3711 take it down to under 1.010.

What was the OG? And did you aerate it? How much did you pitch, and how old was the smack pack (if you started with one)?

loapathy said:

I've never had a problem with French Saison finishing higher than expected. Some of the other saison strains, however...

If you used Wyeast 3711, then it could be an issue of Mash temp? Although I've accidentally mashed @162 and still had 3711 take it down to under 1.010.

What was the OG? And did you aerate it? How much did you pitch, and how old was the smack pack (if you started with one)?

Click to expand...

OG was 1.060. Mashed at 150. Aerate yes. Used 3724 yeast, and i just learned it like things hot so ive warmed up the fermenter and had more activity.

loapathy said:

Holy crap! A post I can comment on.

SWMBO loves ginger. A lot. So I make a lot of Beglian inspired ginger beers. In my experience, Wyeast 3711 really works well for this particular type of saison. It accentuates the ginger while drying the beer out but leaving enough heft in the mouthfeel that the ginger doesn't become harsh or almost acrid on the tongue. And that little bit of Special B gives it a very soft background toffee sweetness.

For hops, I don't think the bittering addition matters as long as you're not using something like Chinook and are around the same IBUs, but the Mt. Hood adds an almost medicinal floral element the compliments the whole beer.

This beer is always, always, always on tap. The only problem is that it's a bit strong at 6%+ABV. But I've not tried scaling it down at all.

Here's my recipe:
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 17.8 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 17.8 %
2.00 oz Ginger Root (Boil 5.0 mins) Herb 6 -
0.50 oz Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 29.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 8 -
0.50 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.2 IBUs
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.2 %

EDIT: I use fresh ginger root, grated. Not crystallized or dried.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your recipe Loapathy. I'm planning to brew a ginger saison and might just go with a 5% version of your recipe. How much ginger character were you getting with that 2oz/5 gal addition? I'm looking for a subtle contribution.

rhys333 said:

Thanks for posting your recipe Loapathy. I'm planning to brew a ginger saison and might just go with a 5% version of your recipe. How much ginger character were you getting with that 2oz/5 gal addition? I'm looking for a subtle contribution.

Click to expand...

One of the saisons I did this year used WY3711 and YB Wallonian Farmhouse. It had a distinct ginger ale finish that seemed to wrap itself around your tongue. Fermented hot. Just sayin, might be something to consider when building your recipe

I think including rye would also be a very good idea for a ginger saison

m00ps said:

One of the saisons I did this year used WY3711 and YB Wallonian Farmhouse. It had a distinct ginger ale finish that seemed to wrap itself around your tongue. Fermented hot. Just sayin, might be something to consider when building your recipe

I think including rye would also be a very good idea for a ginger saison

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention rye m00ps. I was just thinking I have enough left over from a recent rye beer for a 7% addition in this beer. Not a whole lot, but it might do something. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to Yeast Bay products but I do have lots of 3711. This stuff is nuts. I purloined it from a commercial saison and it's been a workhorse in my brewery for the past 8 months.

...you know though... I might save that rye for the IPA in my other post. Perhaps replace the carapils with it.

Rhys333,
Due the extreme attenuation of 3711, I find the ginger comes through really strong. But I also use pink (not pickled or cured but pink fleshed) ginger from a local thai market. Not sure how much of a difference that makes in the finished product. I don't know enough about ginger.

You could also steep some ginger in vodka/grain alcohol and then add to taste at bottling/kegging if you're worried it may be too strong.

loapathy said:

Rhys333,
Due the extreme attenuation of 3711, I find the ginger comes through really strong. But I also use pink (not pickled or cured but pink fleshed) ginger from a local thai market. Not sure how much of a difference that makes in the finished product. I don't know enough about ginger.

You could also steep some ginger in vodka/grain alcohol and then add to taste at bottling/kegging if you're worried it may be too strong.

Click to expand...

Thanks loapathy. I think I'll go with 0.75 oz grated fresh ginger at 10 minutes (4 gal batch). From what you say and from info I found in the link below, this seems a good amount for subtle but still noticeable.

http://www.nchomebrewing.com/beer-ingredient-profile-ginger-root/