OK anyone used an existing yeast cake at bottom of primary for next batch?

A friend claims that you can use the existing crap from the bottom of my primary fermentor.

I understand you can but its more complicated than what he seems to believe.

Wouldnt adding the next batch of beer on top of the yeast cake add the crappy flavor you dont want (thats why you place the first batch in secondary off the cake?):fro:

It's not that complicated...pour your chilled wort right on top of the old "crap." It'll ferment very quickly, and you can rack it off of the "crap" in as little as 3 days to avoid the off flavors you mention. Beer won't usually be harmed by the "crap" unless it sits on the "crap" for over a month.

Yep what Yuri said.

It's good for pitching a high gravity beer b/c there is a ton of still hungry yeast down there.

Wow thats a quick way of doing it and cheaper to boot.

Didnt meant to call yeast crap or anything......... I worship it
Sorry.

britishbloke said:

Didnt meant to call yeast crap or anything......... I worship it
Sorry.

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You took that the wrong way...I thought it was funny when you called the trub/yeast cake, "crap." So, I capitalized on it...humo(u)r sometimes doesn't translate when you type it...

:rockin: rock on man!:rockin:

I never thought I could stare at a full active fermentation for so long.

Its wild what happens in that stage. Appreciate youre time, and yes humour with a U.

:fro:

Good for pitching a high gravity beer?

Say another batch of hard cider on the trub of a scotch ale yeast?

I have to secondary the scotch ale tommorrow and I have six gallons of apple cider.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....:cross:

There will sometimes be hops etc. in the trub. It'd probably be best to ferment a complimentary beer on the old cake.

Also, you are only worried about autolysis etc. when the yeast are dieing because they have already fully attenuated the beer. Once you add new wort they have new fermentables so the clock starts ticking again.

You will likely get petite mutants overtime so you don't want to pitch onto the same cake continually.

Although that is the usual advice Papa-Z has kept a clean strain for over 25 years (according to an interview I heard him give) This was without streaking, just washing and pitching.

Toss the cider onto the Scotch ale "crap." Scotch ale yeast is supposed to be pretty clean and alcohol tolerant.

hopefully it doesnt over flow, I have a 6.5 (25 liters) carboy.
Every batch gets a bit crazier.

There's no rule that says you can't toss out half of the cake before pitching on the rest.

dantodd said:

There will sometimes be hops etc. in the trub. It'd probably be best to ferment a complimentary beer on the old cake.

Also, you are only worried about autolysis etc. when the yeast are dieing because they have already fully attenuated the beer. Once you add new wort they have new fermentables so the clock starts ticking again.

You will likely get petite mutants overtime so you don't want to pitch onto the same cake continually.

Although that is the usual advice Papa-Z has kept a clean strain for over 25 years (according to an interview I heard him give) This was without streaking, just washing and pitching.

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Was he doing an acid wash to keep bacteria down, or just sterile water?

Question: what would you guys think about racking the cooled wort for a Bavarian Hefe onto the cake for a Wit? The cake is made up of German Hefe and Belgian Wheat strains. My only reservation stems from the fact that I used coriander and Curacao in the Wit, and I don't want those flavors in a hefe. Anyone know how much of those flavors might be lurking in the cake?

OK well the scotch ale today bubbles every 46-50 seconds.

Im thinking that its ready for secondary?

Then I can use the primary cake for the apple cider?

britishbloke said:

OK well the scotch ale today bubbles every 46-50 seconds.

Im thinking that its ready for secondary?

Then I can use the primary cake for the apple cider?

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go with it!

Do you/can you still use the yeast that came with the kit if you do this?

What kit? In what beer? I don't get your question.

"Pitching on the cake" and leaving a fermented ale on the crap are two different situations. In the first case, you are giving the yeast fresh wort, more oxygen so they can start anew. In the latter, the yeast are just hanging around waiting to die.

One important consideration is only pitch when your styles play well together. Don't toss a big IPA on a belgian cake (don't laugh, I know someone who did it). Ok laugh, it was bad.

Evan! said:

What kit? In what beer? I don't get your question.

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If I bottle my Happy Holiday Ale Sunday, and brew my Fat Tire clone, can I throw the fat tire wort on the cake/trub from the holiday ale and still use the yeast that came with the fat tire kit?

Evan! said:

Question: what would you guys think about racking the cooled wort for a Bavarian Hefe onto the cake for a Wit? The cake is made up of German Hefe and Belgian Wheat strains. My only reservation stems from the fact that I used coriander and Curacao in the Wit, and I don't want those flavors in a hefe. Anyone know how much of those flavors might be lurking in the cake?

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I think some of those flavors might transfer - the spices probably settled out of suspension as the previous beer began to clear up.

Yuri_Rage said:

I think some of those flavors might transfer - the spices probably settled out of suspension as the previous beer began to clear up.

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Same goes for your brew JnJ if your holiday ale is spiced.

JnJ said:

If I bottle my Happy Holiday Ale Sunday, and brew my Fat Tire clone, can I throw the fat tire wort on the cake/trub from the holiday ale and still use the yeast that came with the fat tire kit?

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Wouldn't do any good to do that as the yeast cake will jump start
the fermentation so fast that there won't be enough time for
the other yeast to think about what to do.

I also have a doppleweiss that has been sitting for 10 days in primary.

Would a porter type of beer be OK to place into the primary cake after the doppleweiss is done?

I used a liqiud yeast from WYeast for that specific doppleweiss.

Hmmmm..........

This thread is blowing my mind. So if I time it right, I can rack a batch to secondary, and pour a new batch of cooled wort right onto the yeast cake/trub? No need to go through all the yeast harvesting that I've been trying to learn?? Provided I rack to secondary right after active fermentation is complete, nothing terrible will happen to the new batch??

I'm just making sure I'm reading this correctly.

I always thought this would be useful if I get to a point where I'm brewing a lot of the same beer consecutively, but now I seem to go from a light, hoppy ale recipe to a dark, Scotch ale to a Belgian and simply feared the flavors would be ill-matched. If I ever get a lagering fridge I'll be doin this, though.

Evan! said:

Question: what would you guys think about racking the cooled wort for a Bavarian Hefe onto the cake for a Wit? The cake is made up of German Hefe and Belgian Wheat strains. My only reservation stems from the fact that I used coriander and Curacao in the Wit, and I don't want those flavors in a hefe. Anyone know how much of those flavors might be lurking in the cake?

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You might get some flavor, but I doubt it would be very much. Maybe just a "hint", and maybe not even that. I think it would be fine. The Coriander and Curacao already have been soaking in beer for a week (or more?), giving up flavor to the beer, and then only some percentage of the spices would have actually settled out, and then you're going to add another 5 gallons of beer... it's sort of like putting a grain of sugar in a glass of water - I wouldn't worry about tasting it.

I think the point is about complimentary beers - they don't have to be exactly the same. I pitched a HaferRoggenWeizen (oats, rye, wheat, and barley) onto a hefeweizen yeast cake the other day. Although, granted there were no spices in the weiss, but still, they should be pretty different beers that I just want to have the same estery/phenolic flavors.

But the reasons for complimentary beers is as much about the yeast being "trained" to eat that kind of beer, as it is about mixing in some flavor from the trub.

jessefive said:

This thread is blowing my mind. So if I time it right, I can rack a batch to secondary, and pour a new batch of cooled wort right onto the yeast cake/trub? No need to go through all the yeast harvesting that I've been trying to learn?? Provided I rack to secondary right after active fermentation is complete, nothing terrible will happen to the new batch??

I'm just making sure I'm reading this correctly.

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You're reading correctly. I racked my Wit to secondary LAST Sunday, and put the stopper/airlock back on the primary and just let it sit. I brewed a hefeweizen yesterday morning, and poured the cooled wort directly on top of the existing cake. Lo and behold...lag time was 45 minutes! This was my first attempt at pitching onto another cake, and I am pleasantly surprised by the lag time. I highly recommend this if you can swing it...but I'd be wary of leaving a cake sitting there for extended periods.

I'm curious about this. I have a trappist sitting in primary, and it's going to be there for another ten days or so, about twenty days altogether. I'm planning a raspberry ale next, and I was going to use a Belgian Wit yeast strain. Would I be safe just throwing my raspberry semi-wheat beer on top of the trappist yeast instead? Would that just taste bizarre? Would the trub/yeast be too old? I think the flavor possibilities are quite intriguing.

Well, heres my (limited) take on it.

After I secondaried to another carboy I used the yeast cake right away on a cider.
It went great, had to get the blow off tube.

But I tried using a doppleweiss cake that had been sitting for about 15 days for another cider and it didnt do anything.

I had to pitch some dry yeast after 24 hours of nothing happening.

This cider is the smelliest ive made so far.

Sometimes it does stink but this one had smelled the whole house up.
Glad I dont have a wife to deal with.:cross:

The doppelweiss cake, do you mean it sat empty for 15 days, or the doppelweiss was in primary for 15 days?

When you pitch on an old cake, do you have to aerate, or should there enough yeast to where they dont need to multiply anymore, and can go straight to fermenting?

- magno

david_42 said:

"Pitching on the cake" and leaving a fermented ale on the crap are two different situations. In the first case, you are giving the yeast fresh wort, more oxygen so they can start anew. In the latter, the yeast are just hanging around waiting to die.

One important consideration is only pitch when your styles play well together. Don't toss a big IPA on a belgian cake (don't laugh, I know someone who did it). Ok laugh, it was bad.

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What would be the maximum length of time you could leave beer in primary on the cake? My belgian might end up sitting in there for three weeks; would it still be good for a batch of wit?

magno said:

When you pitch on an old cake, do you have to aerate, or should there enough yeast to where they dont need to multiply anymore, and can go straight to fermenting?

- magno

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Good question. I would think that aerating it would be nessary or at least not hurt. I 'd get a second opinion though I just guessing.