Most basic electric possible

Forgive my ignorance electric brewers! I currently have a simple, 3 tier type setup with a propane burner on the lowest level for the kettle. I mash in coolers, generally single infusion and one batch sparge. I don't really want to complicate my system as it meets my needs but wouldn't mind getting rid of the propane burner. What's the most basic setup for heating just the kettle? Approximately how much would it cost? I have a 10 gallon kettle and generally do 5 to 6 gallon batches (6 to 8 gallon boils).
Thanks for the help!

3 tier so you must be using a pump, right? 2 coolers, one as 'HLT'/water storage? Simplest set up would similar to my own set up. Volts in are different here, but basically my 200 volt element gives me about 3300 watts, I think. It's plugged into gfi box. That's it. Perfect boil with 5-6 gallon batches. Quick ramp up. Very happy with the simplicity. cost? Maybe 100 bucks with wiring and plugs.

Well, for a brew kettle, I would recommend a 5500 watt ULWD element. You'll need to have a way to screw that element into your kettle. The element will have a 1 inch straight thread which is relatively incompatible with the NPT fittings you will normally find in the big box stores. Although a search should find a suitable solution to install the element into your kettle. Now you need the electricity. You'll need at least 23 amps of 240V split single phase electricity to run the element. Make sure that the circuit is GFCI protected. Now you'll also need a way to control that element. You could use a switch to control a relay that will control your element. I would not recommend that option because you really don't need all that power all the time to boil your wort. So the answer is a PID running in manual mode that controls a Solid State Relay which allows you to vary the percentage of power you impart to your boil very much like the control on your stove, but uses a much different technology. A reasonably priced PID can be found at Auber Instruments. Just make sure it has a manual mode. So those are your minimums and options.

tektonjp said:

3 tier so you must be using a pump, right? 2 coolers, one as 'HLT'/water storage? Simplest set up would similar to my own set up. Volts in are different here, but basically my 200 volt element gives me about 3300 watts, I think. It's plugged into gfi box. That's it. Perfect boil with 5-6 gallon batches. Quick ramp up. Very happy with the simplicity. cost? Maybe 100 bucks with wiring and plugs.

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Sounds pretty easy. Any chance you could post a picture? Can you vary the heat on your setup?

Also wondering if you can "drop in" the element rather than build it in to your kettle...

tyzippers said:

You'll need at least 23 amps of 240V 2 phase electricity to run the element.

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Just an FYI there is no such thing as 2 phase power. It is either single phase 220 or 3 phase 220. There are other variation when you use more power lke 480 Delta but no 2 phase.

orion7144 said:

Just an FYI there is no such thing as 2 phase power. It is either single phase 220 or 3 phase 220. There are other variation when you use more power lke 480 Delta but no 2 phase.

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I believe that you are mistaken. Please do a Google on "2 phase power".

P-J

Yes, there is (or was, or can be) two phase power, but the typical residential delivery single, split-phase 240V is not two phase power.

http://beermaking1.infoandstuff.com/?p=1404

The example above is about as basic as you can get...if you only have 120v you will need two circuits, 20 amp for 2000w elements, or 15 amp for 1500w elements.

If you have 240v available, you can use one element, unless you build a controller, you will have to use a smaller element than 5500w, say 3-4000w, a 5500w will be too much power unless you can vary the output...USE GFCI's!

Demus said:

Also wondering if you can "drop in" the element rather than build it in to your kettle...

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Yes! Search "heatstick", to boil 6 gallons you will want two sticks to speed things along, a little ghetto, but you can heat strike and sparge water directly in the MLT and HLT and avoid transfering all the water around the system.

P-J said:

I believe that you are mistaken. Please do a Google on "2 phase power".

P-J

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Quoting the first link that pops up with your search criteria shows

Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power used in the United States and Canada is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase". The proper term is split phase or 3-wire single-phase. The two live outputs of a 3-wire single phase transformer secondary winding are properly called "legs".

Yea, phases refers to the primary wires typically the wires at the top of the telephone poles

orion7144 said:

Quoting the first link that pops up with your search criteria shows

Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power used in the United States and Canada is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase". The proper term is split phase or 3-wire single-phase. The two live outputs of a 3-wire single phase transformer secondary winding are properly called "legs".

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The point was that two phase power does or can exist, but that typical household power is not it.

redman67 said:

Yea, phases refers to the primary wires typically the wires at the top of the telephone poles

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If you look at it in the same context as the panel board they're basically legs too, but have (typically) 120 deg offset in today's systems.

The power poles at the far end of our block carry all three legs of the three-phase distribution, but only one leg is tapped to the transformer providing 120/240V split phase service to the block.

orion7144 said:

Just an FYI there is no such thing as 2 phase power. It is either single phase 220 or 3 phase 220. There are other variation when you use more power lke 480 Delta but no 2 phase.

Click to expand...

P-J said:

I believe that you are mistaken. Please do a Google on "2 phase power".

P-J

Click to expand...

orion7144 said:

Quoting the first link that pops up with your search criteria shows

Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power used in the United States and Canada is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase". The proper term is split phase or 3-wire single-phase. The two live outputs of a 3-wire single phase transformer secondary winding are properly called "legs".

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Again... You stated in your first post "there is no such thing as 2 phase power".

That statment is patently incorrect. Also, your last reply does not relate in any way to 2 phase power either.

I'm done.!

P-J said:

Again... You stated in your first post "there is no such thing as 2 phase power".

That statment is patently incorrect. Also, your last reply does not relate in any way to 2 phase power either.

I'm done.!

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There is NO 2 phase power in residential or commercial application. Anything that requires 2 phases (220 is NOT 2 phase) uses a 3 phase source and uses 2 LEGS of that 3 phase. Look it up it is in the NECA/NEIS code witch all electricians are to follow.

orion7144 said:

There is NO 2 phase power in residential or commercial application. Anything that requires 2 phases (220 is NOT 2 phase) uses a 3 phase source and uses 2 LEGS of that 3 phase. Look it up it is in the NECA/NEIS code witch all electricians are to follow.

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This is very different from your original statement, that "there is no such thing as 2 phase power," which is wrong. Check out the history of Niagara Falls, for example.

jeffmeh said:

This is very different from your original statement, that "there is no such thing as 2 phase power," which is wrong. Check out the history of Niagara Falls, for example.

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You are correct I should have said in recent history it is not used.


And thanks for your polite way of pointing it out.

Phases, wattage, codes, jeez! Guess I'll stick to propane, thanks guys!!!

If you guys want to fight about semantics of phases you should go to an electricians forum and not hijack someone else's thread.

To the OP, the most basic electric would be a water heater element controlled by a pwm in your BK to heat mash/spare water and to also boil your wort.
Search any of the terms: element, pwm, ekettle, etc, and you will find plenty of info. Or look at the threads referenced at the boy you of this very page.

You should be able to put it together
for less than $100.

Demus said:

Phases, wattage, codes, jeez! Guess I'll stick to propane, thanks guys!!!

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+1 Well, these guys are passionate about their electricity!:cross:

Still say mine is the most basic, as the juice flow unimpeded to the element, no rheostat, PWM, PID, or any combination of letters. I'll try to get a pic up shortly for you to see.

nm999 said:

If you guys want to fight about semantics of phases you should go to an electricians forum and not hijack someone else's thread.

To the OP, the most basic electric would be a water heater element controlled by a pwm in your BK to heat mash/spare water and to also boil your wort.
Search any of the terms: element, pwm, ekettle, etc, and you will find plenty of info. Or look at the threads referenced at the boy you of this very page.

You should be able to put it together
for less than $100.

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100 bucks? I've been planning to build a new brewstand and never even considered electric but this is starting to sound like a good option. I could use my welder plug in for it, so I just need the element and some form of control I guess.

I'm considering this too. Especially since (a) I've been spending a ton on propane, and (b) my current living situation includes electricity.

What about induction burners? Has anyone tried them? and what wattage would work ?

All those considering electric should definetly go for it
My system is a little overkill but the best brewing decision I ever made hands down
Brew indoors, no trips to refill tanks brewing Heaven on earth

The most basic electric possible can be found here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ghetto-brew-kit-369699/

I only do 5 gallon batches, I'm guessing I don't even need to mess with the 220 Volt, enjoyed reading the bucket thread!

Even for a simple system make sure you have a GFCI power source.
If you are limited to 120v @ 20amps, you can connect a 2000W element. There are some calculators on the site for how long it will take to boil water, etc, based on this power source. I suspect you will be limited to partial boil 5 gallon batches or need to supplement with the stove to boil 6+ gallons of water.

The most basic setup is a box with a high power switch to turn kettle element on/off
Next step is to control power to element, search for PWM or phase angle control.
Next step is temp control with a PID.

An electric setup can be cheap and simple or complex, automated, and expensive.

Demus said:

Sounds pretty easy. Any chance you could post a picture? Can you vary the heat on your setup?

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To vary the heat you need more equipment. Either a PID set to manual (a bit complicated to set up, but not too bad), or you could buy some sort of packaged system.

I believe highgravitybrew.com has a 220V electric boil controller called "Electric Kettle Controller". It's a bit spendy at $249, but ready to go if you're going with a simple set-up.

I am not affiliated with them and haven't tried the product.

Anyone tried a Teflon coated element? I install them in hot tubs and they are more corrosion resistant. Think I may go that route, 5.5 kw with a pid control.

cgherrington3 said:

The most basic electric possible can be found here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ghetto-brew-kit-369699/

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I think brewing in a paint bucket is a bit TOO basic! Just looking for a "drop in" type setup so I don't have to go crazy drilling my kettle and tapping into my houses electrical service...

What's a PID by the way? I've been brewing for years but have seen a slew of new acronyms since looking into this. Please, if you want to help spell out your acronyms...

I could have sworn I've seen old stove electric burner knobs/rheostats/whatever directly mounted to water heater elements and used to control temp. I assume that the control is inefficient but could be wrong. This would still use 220/240 and still need GFCI protection. I cannot find a thread about it at the moment but if I do I'll post back.

Demus said:

What's a PID by the way? I've been brewing for years but have seen a slew of new acronyms since looking into this. Please, if you want to help spell out your acronyms...

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Not really an acronym in the SWMBO sense. It is a temperature controller that uses Proportional, Intergral and Derivitive control logic to allow finer control than a controller that justs turns off/on at a setpoint.

As has been said the cheapest would be a single element sized correctly that is plugged into a wall socket using a GFCI extension lead.
I would expect for a 5 gallon batch you would look at needing 3kW (don't know if you can get an element in this size as a normal stocked item).
this will have the cons of a longer heating time though.
The other control option I have seen is a $10 chopper circuit that is usually used for router speed control, but should work for elements as well. I'll try find the ebay link.

I don't mind spending a hundred or two, but it seems like you can really drop some coin going this route. My main goals here are:

1-faster boil times
2-lower cost (over time)
3-maintain system simplicity

If all 3 can't be achieved over my propane setup, I have no desire to switch. Keeping it a drop in type element would ease cleaning and simplicity, but it would still need some form of control to maintain a proper boil of up to 8 gallons. Anyone have pictures of a drop in type element and know where to get them?

Not sure what a SWMBO is either...

i do 2 2000w elements on 2 separate circuits in my apartment, i can get 10 gallons goin pretty nicely.

stpug said:

I could have sworn I've seen old stove electric burner knobs/rheostats/whatever directly mounted to water heater elements and used to control temp. I assume that the control is inefficient but could be wrong. This would still use 220/240 and still need GFCI protection. I cannot find a thread about it at the moment but if I do I'll post back.

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Maybe you remember something like this? It works like a dimmer switch, only it's rated for 13.75 Amps & will control up to a 1650 watt 120V water heater element. You would plug it into a GFI outlet for GFI protection.

She Who Must Be Obyed

Demus
where do you brew?
if you have 240 available I would suggest you go that route.
A PID and ssr(solid state Relay) from auber will run you $65
This is not too much for the control it gives you