Why do big breweries mainly create lagers?

Revvy, your pictures make me drool. I kind of want both a two hearted and a diabolical IPA now.

And it appears as if they have replaced the chips will Bell's brews...

WHile it is true that there are great lagers and ales, when LEINENKUGELs (for instance) ONLY makes lagers (including their dark roast winter warmer....LAGER??? WTF?) it is clear pandering to the uneducated BMC crowd.


I heard a song with some ass hat listing all the things he likes, and up comes "cigarettes and lager"...... and while they guy might be an incredibly worldly beer enthusiast who has decided that just prefers a good Vienna Lager.... I FREAKING DOUBT IT!!!!!!!!

Lager can be wonderful. Unfortunately 93% of it is CRAP, giving the rest a bad name.

(YES everything INBEV makes is crap)

cheezydemon3 said:

WHile it is true that there are great lagers and ales, when LEINENKUGELs (for instance) ONLY makes lagers (including their dark roast winter warmer....LAGER??? WTF?) it is clear pandering to the uneducated BMC crowd.

I heard a song with some ass hat listing all the things he likes, and up comes "cigarettes and lager"...... and while they guy might be an incredibly worldly beer enthusiast who has decided that just prefers a good Vienna Lager.... I FREAKING DOUBT IT!!!!!!!!

Lager can be wonderful. Unfortunately 93% of it is CRAP, giving the rest a bad name.

(YES everything INBEV makes is crap)

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ALL CAPS DOESN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT BETTER.

I'm just saying...

Revvy said:

This is a DRUGSTORE.....

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I hate living in BFE.

freisste said:

ALL CAPS DOESN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT BETTER.

I'm just saying...

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This looks like ALL CAPS?

cheezydemon3 said:

WHile it is true that there are great lagers and ales, when LEINENKUGELs (for instance) ONLY makes lagers (including their dark roast winter warmer....LAGER??? WTF?) it is clear pandering to the uneducated BMC crowd.


I heard a song with some ass hat listing all the things he likes, and up comes "cigarettes and lager"...... and while they guy might be an incredibly worldly beer enthusiast who has decided that just prefers a good Vienna Lager.... I FREAKING DOUBT IT!!!!!!!!

Lager can be wonderful. Unfortunately 93% of it is CRAP, giving the rest a bad name.

(YES everything INBEV makes is crap)

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You need your eyes checked son.

Not Just saying.

I FREAKING MEAN IT.

Revvy said:

Funny, but where I live even our chain grocery stores carry more craft beer than they do macro beers. kroger's, Meijer's, even the local IGAs carry a huge selection of craft and imported beers, and devote more shelf space to said beers. Than they do to domestic light lagers these day. Even the most "Ghetto" of the liquor stores in Detroit have some alternatives to those beers.

We also have 100 micro breweries in Michigan.

In fact I've been trying to find the Budweiser Brew Masters series that we've been talking about in other threads, and I JUST CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE.....I can find any craft, imported and micro beer that are distributed in my state, especially those brewed in Michigan easier than I can find the Budweiser product.

I've been buying imported and craft beers since 1986, and more of it every year. I just don't buy that they have as much power as you think they do. The genie is out of the box, the distributors, and the store owners know which side the bread is buttered... They know beer culture is here to stay and they know that a decent amount of the population nowadays is more interested in pay 17 dollars for a bottle of x craft beer. They know that they have to nowadays sell 2 cases of budlight, for every 12 dollar 4 pack of Founder's Breakfast Stout that a large segment of the population is clamoring for.

They're not going to allow the macro breweries to dictate to them how they have to make their money these days.....they're going to cover all bases.

So, from where I'm looking, where I can buy more craft beers, and attend beer tastings everyweek in my local pharmacy I find those "beerwars" arguments about how much power the "evil empire" has over beer distribution anymore about as believable as most 9-11 conspiracies.

(links snipped)

I think those arguments are just more looking for a reason to hate, than they're having that much of a stanglehold these days.

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The key to all of this is your last two words, "these days."(which you also say earlier in your post). Beer Wars was released in April of 2009 and filmed in 2008. While that may not seem like a long time, the craft beer explosion is a fairly recent phenomena, at least on store shelves. I spent over two decades of my life living in Michigan, you, as well as I know, that liquor and grocery stores for the most part did not look like that even 5 years ago.

So while it is true that the stanglehold of BMC has subsided(although it depends on the area, some places are not nearly as craft beery as Michigan is) today's beer world is not the same one that Beer Wars was created in.

I'm not a huge fan of lagers. I'll stick with making Ales!!

Shaudius said:

The key to all of this is your last two words, "these days."(which you also say earlier in your post). Beer Wars was released in April of 2009 and filmed in 2008. While that may not seem like a long time, the craft beer explosion is a fairly recent phenomena, at least on store shelves. I spent over two decades of my life living in Michigan, you, as well as I know, that liquor and grocery stores for the most part did not look like that even 5 years ago.

So while it is true that the stanglehold of BMC has subsided(although it depends on the area, some places are not nearly as craft beery as Michigan is) today's beer world is not the same one that Beer Wars was created in.

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Dude, I've been buying craft and micro beers since 1989, don't give me that. I've been hitting stores like this since LONG BEFORE that stupid movie came out. My first "special" beer that I ever bought was Double Diamond Burton ale, bought back then in the kind of inner-city party store where the also kept the "chore boy" scrubbies and sold plastic roses in little glass test tubes at the front counter (if you don't know chore boy and little glass test tubes can be used to smoke crack with, they're quite popular in inner city stores.)

And as soon as Sierra Nevada hit the market shortly after that was available in that same store as well.

I was going to a bar in Detroit that had 400 different imported beers since I turned 21.

Gunpowder said:

I'm not a huge fan of lagers. I'll stick with making Ales!!

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I felt the same for quite some time. But I brewed up a Bohemian Pilsner out of want to brew something with flavor that my brother might really like and the result blew me away. It's now a constant in my pipeline.

I used Jamil's (Brewing Classic Styles) recipe as a starting point. Classic pilsner lager flavor with a spicy sazz kick. Awesome beer!

ThickHead said:

I felt the same for quite some time. But I brewed up a Bohemian Pilsner out of want to brew something that my brother really liked and the result blew me away. It's now a constant in my pipeline.

I used Jamil's (Brewing Classic Styles) recipe as a starting point. Classic pilsner lager flavor with a spicy sazz kick. Awesome beer!

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I used to be the same way. Then I had my first Vienna Lager which led me to try more and more different types. I've been buying a lot of craft pilsners lately.

Revvy said:

And as soon as Sierra Nevada hit the market shortly after that was available in that same store as well.

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This is where it truly started for me. Sierra Nevada was a game-changer in terms of opening my mind to other possibilities. The craft beer movement has been a long steady force. And companies like Sierra Nevada, Red Hook, Anchor and many others have been making noise for a long, long time.

cheezydemon3 said:

when LEINENKUGELs (for instance) ONLY makes lagers (including their dark roast winter warmer....LAGER??? WTF?) it is clear pandering to the uneducated BMC crowd.

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I bet if you asked 100 Leine drinkers if it's an ale or a lager; 85 wouldn't be able to answer...

The ONLY reason I'm even remotely excited for winter is because I want to try my hand at my first lager. I've never thought of a lager as being an enemy, just another style to try. I've also had lagers I really enjoy (Purple Gang Pilsner comes to mind) and lager doesn't make me automatically think BMC. I think BMC has it's place just like McD/BK do. Does BMC have lobbyist and all that political noise? Sure, but what industry doesn't at this point, really. Watching 'Beer Wars' shows that no matter the industry, there's going to be lobbyist (Firearms, Beer, Food/agro industrial, pharmaceutical, etc, etc).

Different product, same typical story it seems. Oh, and BTW, someone should have told that lady that caffeine in beer = silly. I'm sure the product itself is part of why she was having issues, not just BMC standing in her way. I did learn a bit about the distribution system from that movie so that was cool.

And I'm slightly off topic now, sorry.

AZ_IPA said:

I bet if you asked 100 Leine drinkers if it's an ale or a lager; 85 wouldn't be able to answer...

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In Texas isn't it both?

AZ_IPA said:

I bet if you asked 100 Leine drinkers if it's an ale or a lager; 85 wouldn't be able to answer...

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I remember learning that Budweiser was a LAGER...."ooooh! Now I has some beer education!!!!" thought I.

Never knew that ale was the other species. I thought ale was some bizarre form of malt liquor people drank in the dark ages.

Revvy said:

Dude, I've been buying craft and micro beers since 1989, don't give me that. I've been hitting stores like this since LONG BEFORE that stupid movie came out. My first "special" beer that I ever bought was Double Diamond Burton ale, bought back then in the kind of inner-city party store where the also kept the "chore boy" scrubbies and sold plastic roses in little glass test tubes at the front counter (if you don't know chore boy and little glass test tubes can be used to smoke crack with, they're quite popular in inner city stores.)

And as soon as Sierra Nevada hit the market shortly after that was available in that same store as well.

I was going to a bar in Detroit that had 400 different imported beers since I turned 21.

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My argument is not that some craft beer hasn't been available in some stores for a long time and hasn't been in some bars for a long time. My argument is that MOST stores, did not sell large selection/have a large portion of their space dedicated to craft beer as recently as half a decade ago, especially larger general purpose stores with grocery sections like Meijer and grocery stores like Kroger and that a lot of this has to do with distribution agreements through the three-tier system which Beer Wars is absolutely correct about.

This fact is extremely important because most people who get introduced to craft beer don't go looking to be introduced to craft beer, they go to their local place in which they buy beer(sometimes a grocery store, sometimes a liquor store) and make a purchase or they get introduced by friends who have previously done the same.

Its great that this is changing, and that larger groceries are now starting to carry more craft beer, because options are good, but your anecdotes about one or two stores you went to in the late 80s or early 90s doesn't seem much proof to counter the movie's premise regarding the fact the macro-lager manufacturers engaged/engage in monopolistic practices in most larger stores at the time.

cheezydemon3 said:

I remember learning that Budweiser was a LAGER...."ooooh! Now I has some beer education!!!!" thought I.

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Yeah...I have had someone tell me they didn't care to try a lager (homebrew) I offered when they visited with a with a friend. She expressed that she hated lagers and would much prefer to stick with her Budweiser.

It never ceases to amaze me how worked up, defensive and angry people get about subjects like this.
It's BEER. There are lots of kinds of beer. Some cheap, some expensive, some fairly bland, some that you love and some that you hate.
No one makes you drink the ones you don't like.
The big breweries make what lots of people like. That's their job.
There is quite a bit of history available on beer. Everything from who brought what to the United States when they came here to what caused a change in the beer styles in world war 2.
It all comes down to they make what people are buying, and we are free to make or buy what we want.

Shaudius said:

This fact is extremely important because most people who get introduced to craft beer don't go looking to be introduced to craft beer, they go to their local place in which they buy beer(sometimes a grocery store, sometimes a liquor store) and make a purchase or they get introduced by friends who have previously done the same.

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Yep. That's how it happened to me in 1989. Red Hook and Sierra Nevada were the eye-openers.

...but to point to one store you went to in the late 80s or early 90s as proof that the movie's premise regarding monopolistic practices among macro-lager manufacturers just doesn't hold that much weight.

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It holds weight with me. I had the same experience in the late 80's, early 90's. Late 80's in San Fransisco, CA with Red Hook and then again when I found Sierra Nevada in the suburbs of Toledo, OH.

Perhaps age might have something to do with this argument. Were you buying and drinking beer in the late 80's and early 90's

ThickHead said:

It holds weight with me. I had the same experience in the late 80's, early 90's. Late 80's in San Fransisco, CA with Red Hook and then again when I found Sierra Nevada in the suburbs of Toledo, OH.

Perhaps age might have something to do with this argument. Were you buying and drinking beer in the late 80's and early 90's

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The reason that it doesn't hold weight isn't because its not true or the experience of people. The reason it doesn't hold weight is because unless your experience was in a the store that had a large selection of non-BMC and was a large store then its not directly applicable. My argument, again, isn't that craft beer hasn't been available for decades, of course it has. My argument is instead that MOST large stores did not carry a large selection of it, and it wasn't in large part because its not what people wanted to drink. It was effectively a niche within a niche and remained that was through the influence of BMC.

ThickHead said:

It holds weight with me. I had the same experience in the late 80's, early 90's. Late 80's in San Fransisco, CA with Red Hook and then again when I found Sierra Nevada in the suburbs of Toledo, OH.

Perhaps age might have something to do with this argument. Were you buying and drinking beer in the late 80's and early 90's

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Yeah. And it's wasn't just one store, it was and has been MANY stores in the metro detroit area, the point I was trying to make was that I could even find alternatives to bmc in 1989, in stores in the INNER CITY if Detroit. Not just in specialty stores. But stores where people were selling CRACK in front of it.

The beer wasn't keistered by some smuggler, it came from the same beer distributors that were putting bud on the shelves.

Heck I was drinking in THIS BAR when I was 21 that even then had 400 different bottle beers available.

And that was technically even BEFORE the birth of the craft industry.

This idea promulgated by that film that there was ONLY bmc available and they had a stranglehold on everything, til that movie came out to "save the day" was a myth.

Yes craft beers were in the minority, craft brewing as we know it was in it's infancy. So OF COURSE there was less craft beer in the marketplace.....There was less craft. But there has been a STEADY increase in the availability of alternative to BMC since then.....they didn't strangle the market then, nor are they ever going to be able to.

Shaudius said:

The reason that it doesn't hold weight isn't because its not true or the experience of people. The reason it doesn't hold weight is because unless your experience was had in a situation where the store you went to had a large selection of non-BMC and was a large store then its not directly applicable. My argument again isn't that craft beer hasn't been available for decades, of course it has. My argument is instead that MOST stores did not carry a large selection of it, and it wasn't in large part because its not what people wanted to drink.

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It's true for me and the experience of me as a person. It's been a gradual rise until now. The great thing is that whatever oppression you feel was placed upon the world from the macros is becoming more of a thing of the past every day. It is a fact, that I was released from that oppression in the late 80's and early 90's. As were many of my friends of a similar age. I didn't go looking for it. I stumbled upon it. I feel lucky as a gen Xer.

Shaudius said:

The reason that it doesn't hold weight isn't because its not true or the experience of people. The reason it doesn't hold weight is because unless your experience was in a the store that had a large selection of non-BMC and was a large store then its not directly applicable. My argument, again, isn't that craft beer hasn't been available for decades, of course it has. My argument is instead that MOST large stores did not carry a large selection of it, and it wasn't in large part because its not what people wanted to drink. It was effectively a niche within a niche and remained that was through the influence of BMC.

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But this IS the experience of the people in Michigan dude....and Toledo Ohio, And San Francisco, and Patterson New Jersey. You're in DENIAL....We're saying WE'VE BEEN BUYING BEER OTHER THAN BMC EASILY SINCE THE LATE 80's.

And as it became evident that there was a market for those beers, then EVEN THE GROCERY STORES figured out there was a steady increasing market for it.

You don't want to admit that just maybe your precious film was WRONG. And MAYBE just a little biased.....just another Beersnob "I hate BMC" rant.

ThickHead said:

I felt the same for quite some time. But I brewed up a Bohemian Pilsner out of want to brew something with flavor that my brother might really like and the result blew me away. It's now a constant in my pipeline.

I used Jamil's (Brewing Classic Styles) recipe as a starting point. Classic pilsner lager flavor with a spicy sazz kick. Awesome beer!

Click to expand...

Revvy said:

I used to be the same way. Then I had my first Vienna Lager which led me to try more and more different types. I've been buying a lot of craft pilsners lately.

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I trust you both explicitly, so I will say this: Once I get more experience at brewing beer, I will certainly entertain the notion of a spicy lager!!! My biggest problem with most pilsners out there is simply that they seem to lack the body & flavor of a typical ale.

I enjoy rich, hearty beers with zest and spice and punch!! As an old friend used to say, "I don't trust any beer that I can see through"... lol

Gunpowder said:

I trust you both explicitly, so I will say this: Once I get more experience at brewing beer, I will certainly entertain the notion of a spicy lager!!! My biggest problem with most pilsners out there is simply that they seem to lack the body & flavor of a typical ale.

I enjoy rich, hearty beers with zest and spice and punch!! As an old friend used to say, "I don't trust any beer that I can see through"... lol

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The great thing about being a homebrewer is that you can take any style as a starting point and make it how you like it. You can add as much body and spice to a basic pilsner lager recipe as you want and you might find it turns into the best thing you ever tasted.

In fact the Bohemian Pilsner I made uses over 7oz of sazz for a 5.5 gallon batch. Now...as Czech sazz usually runs 3.5 AA or so that doesn't make it overly bitter (or even out of style) but it gives it a fantastic spicy punch that is almost addicting in my opinion.

Gunpowder said:

I enjoy rich, hearty beers with zest and spice and punch!! As an old friend used to say, "I don't trust any beer that I can see through"... lol

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Then try some of those lagers that Thickhead suggested. Most of them ARE rich and hearty, and spicy and punchy, that's the point, as consumers tastes changed, because their diets changed, in order to survive, went to a lighter style of lager. Because when folks no longer needed to get filled up in place of food, they wanted something that was less rich and heart and spicy and punchy.

I can't believe I forgot this one. One of my favorite beers of all time is Frankenmuths Munich Dunkel, also a Lager, AND you can't see thru it .

Doctor_Wily said:

I can't believe I forgot this one. One of my favorite beers of all time is Frankenmuths Munich Dunkel, also a Lager, AND you can't see thru it .

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I haven't had one of those in years! I grew up from ages 7 to 18 in Bridgeport Mich. and visit from time to time. Can't believe I was there last May and didn't even remember this. Thank you!

Subsailor said:

I haven't had one of those in years! I grew up from ages 7 to 18 in Bridgeport Mich. and visit from time to time. Can't believe I was there last May and didn't even remember this. Thank you!

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Welcome! it's one of my favorites and is best right at the brewery IMHO.

Revvy said:

But this IS the experience of the people in Michigan dude....and Toledo Ohio, And San Francisco, and Patterson New Jersey. You're in DENIAL....We're saying WE'VE BEEN BUYING BEER OTHER THAN BMC EASILY SINCE THE LATE 80's.

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Having to go to specific shops to buy a product category that is widely available in all shops of that type by other makers is hardly what I would call easily. Again, my argument is not that craft beer has not been available for decades, my argument is precisely what you brush off in your second paragraph.

Revvy said:

And as it became evident that there was a market for those beers, then EVEN THE GROCERY STORES figured out there was a steady increasing market for it.

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The grocery stores were dragged kicking and screaming because they weren't allowed the capitalistic freedom otherwise for numerous years. It was not until craft beer exploded enough for them to be able to buck the anti-competitive practices of the maco manufacturers because they could afford to say no to the macros and not severely affect their bottom line.

Furthermore, the reason you could go into smaller specialty shops and buy craft beer is because BMC didn't experience enough sales volume in those stores for them to care about exerting their pressure on these establishment as much as larger grocery stores because the sales volume of a specialty beer or liquor shop(especially one in the inner city) pales in comparison to a large grocery or mainstream convenience store. Think about that for a second, the sales volume wasn't that high. Implicit in that statement is the idea that most people are not getting their beer from those stores, if most people aren't getting their beer from those stores, most people will continue to be oblivious to the existence of alternatives. The fact that market erosion has been a gradual process has a number of explanations but that fact that exposure increases over time seems like a pretty plausible effect of this gradual exposure to other products regardless of their quality.

Revvy said:

You don't want to admit that just maybe your precious film was WRONG. And MAYBE just a little biased.....just another Beersnob "I hate BMC" rant.

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No information you provided is one piece of evidence that the film is WRONG. All you've provided is information that you could go to specific shops in the past and purchase craft beer. This is not news, nor is it a counterargument(see above).

Furthermore, my remarks have nothing to do with beersnobbery because they have nothing to do with the quality of BMC as a product and its quality as beer is unimportant to my argument.

My argument is not that the macro lagers are bad beer, my argument is that the macro lager manufacturers are anti-competitive companies that use market share and lobbying to control the market in an illegal and questionable way. If Sierra Nevada or Dogfish Head or Boston Beer Comapny was engaging in the same practices I would find them equally deplorable even if I extremely enjoyed the beer that they produced.

Note that this is not a problem that is specific to beer, as someone else mentioned up thread, but it is a valid argument, and has nothing to do with supposed beer snobbery.

Shaudius, do you have any additional info to backup the claims of anti-competitive, etc etc? I'm just wondering if there are other resources for such claims other than the movie. While I did enjoy some of the movie Beer Wars, I did find it to be somewhat bias. I don't disbelieve the possibility of shady business practices on a macro level but won't just outright believe it simply because I "saw it in a movie" lol.

Doctor_Wily said:

Shaudius, do you have any additional info to backup the claims of anti-competitive, etc etc? I'm just wondering if there are other resources for such claims other than the movie. While I did enjoy some of the movie Beer Wars, I did find it to be somewhat bias. I don't disbelieve the possibility of shady business practices on a macro level but won't just outright believe it simply because I "saw it in a movie" lol.

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I'm not particular aware of any resources outside of news articles and DoJ investigations for the information provided in the movie regarding some of the practices, and you're right to not take something at face value just because its in a movie.

As far as I am aware, however, it is without dispute that each region has a specific distributor for the products and that they are usually different for the different manufacturers. That is to say that there is one Budweiser distributor in town, and one Miller Coors distributor, if you want Miller Coors in your store you have to go through them, and if you want it, you have to display in the way that they see fit. It also means that craft brewers either need to compete for distribution space with these distributors or form a third distribution chain. Since product volume in the past wasn't that great for individual craft breweries this last option is problematic to pull off. So they usually have to go with the Miller Coors or Bud distributor. This means that they are beholden to these distributors who obviously have to service their largest account first, in order to keep it.

Now of course this is all changing as BMC becomes less popular and distributors can break away from their agreements with them(which affects the retailer level of all products of a distributor if they're beholden to BMC). Also as time goes on third distributors are more powerful.

If you're interested I did find these article from the Chicago Tribute all the way back in 1997 about the whole situation:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...48_1_craft-brewers-goose-island-beer-industry

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-busch-beer-marketer-s-insights-beer-industry

Gunpowder said:

I enjoy rich, hearty beers with zest and spice and punch!! As an old friend used to say, "I don't trust any beer that I can see through"... lol

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I thought about this on the drive home. I think you have a 1 dimensional understanding about what a lager is.....

I suggest that if you want to try a lager that is rich, hearty, with spice and punch that you try one of these beers;

Celebrator Doppelbock.



Paulaner Salvator Doppelbock



Schneider Aventinus Weizen Bock · Doppelbock/Dunkel;


I dare you to put any of those three up against your favorite hearty ale, be it a stout, or whatever, and tell me if it has no flavor or character.

And also try Great Lakes Elliot Ness Vienna Lager to see that even quaffer/lawn mower lagers aren't all thin and flavorless as you might think.



(And if you like that, brew my vienna lager from my pulldown someday.)

Doctor_Wily said:

I can't believe I forgot this one. One of my favorite beers of all time is Frankenmuths Munich Dunkel, also a Lager, AND you can't see thru it .

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Subsailor said:

I haven't had one of those in years! I grew up from ages 7 to 18 in Bridgeport Mich. and visit from time to time. Can't believe I was there last May and didn't even remember this. Thank you!

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I've never tried it or seen it.....have to look for it.

Revvy, that's exactly why I'm here and willing to listen to people like you, sir!

Also, anyone who thinks lagers suck should try anything by Metropolitan Brewing in Chicago. All they make is lagers, and they do a great job. Their doppelbock, and the barrel-aged version are some of the better beers brewed in the city.

Revvy said:

I thought about this on the drive home. I think you have a 1 dimensional understanding about what a lager is.....

I suggest that if you want to try a lager that is rich, hearty, with spice and punch that you try one of these beers;

Celebrator Doppelbock.

Paulaner Salvator Doppelbock

Schneider Aventinus Weizen Bock · Doppelbock/Dunkel;

I dare you to put any of those three up against your favorite hearty ale, be it a stout, or whatever, and tell me if it has no flavor or character.

And also try Great Lakes Elliot Ness Vienna Lager to see that even quaffer/lawn mower lagers aren't all thin and flavorless as you might think.

(And if you like that, brew my vienna lager from my pulldown someday.)

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One of the down sides to living in a small town is that the only way I would ever see one of those beers on the shelf of a store around here is if I were to open my own store.

Those look very good to me.

Maybe when I do get into the city I need to find a store that stocks good beer and just fill up the back of my truck!

Gunpowder said:

Revvy, that's exactly why I'm here and willing to listen to people like you, sir!

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Sir?

Revvy rocks, but don't kiss his arse. It smells like sh*t...and Lazy Bones BBQ.

Hey, I tried to hide those farts, especially around your gorgeous wife.....but too much beer yeast and BBQ can only stay inside for so long.


On an oddly related note. I am actually trying and write up reviews for the Budweiser Project 12 beers, that I went through hell to actually find. Who would have thought that with the evil bmc empire controlling the distribution channels with an iron fist that I would have to go to 6 stores before I could find a Budweiser product. I actually started with store that I thought would be more likely to carry it, stores with less of an emphasis on craft beers...But even those places had more craft than BMC products....I finally went to the Sav Mor Drug Store with the uber craft beer selection to get it...Pretty funny.

So I'm tasting them as we speak, and I have to admit, I'm surprisingly impressed with the 2 of three that I've tried so far.

Revvy said:

Hey, I tried to hide those farts.....but too much yeast and BBQ can only stay inside for so long.

On an oddly related note. I am actually trying and write up reviews for the Budweiser Project 12 beers, that I went through hell to actually find. Who would have thought that with the evil bmc empire controlling the distribution channels with an iron fist that I would have to go to 6 stores before I could find a Budweiser product. I actually started with store that I thought would be more likely to carry it, stores with less of an emphasis on craft beers...But even those places had more craft than BMC products....I finally went to the Sav Mor Drug Store with the uber craft beer selection to get it...Pretty funny.

So I'm tasting them as we speak, and I have to admit, I'm surprisingly impressed with the 2 of three that I've tried so far.

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At the Festival of Barrel Aged Beers in Chicago in 2011, one of the better beers was by Miller. It got no love and no attention from the crowd but I thought it showed that the big guys have not forgotten how to make damn good ales when they want to.