Extra Special Rye French Saison? huh? yes.

Hey everyone. I'm working on another recipe, this time an ESB-like beer that will be a bit hoppier, have some rye in it, and be fermented with a French Saison yeast and then dry hopped. I have no idea what category this is or what to call it, but I think it is going to be a fun beer.

Here is what I am thinking for the grain bill so far (my eff is 80%):

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.34 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 12.77 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 8.51 %
12.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6.38 %

OG 1.066. Going to use Wyeast 3711 French Saison yeast.

I am basing this on an ESB I really enjoyed, but adding the rye and caramunich instead of the caramel malts. I am also going to mash lower to leave it dryer. What do you guys thinking about this? Is it possible to make a really dry beer with caramel in it? Would it be terrible? Also, what about victory with this dry style?

I am thinking of Sterling/Centennial/Cascade/Amarillo hops for this one...

I`ve been fermenting a similar, but more traditional saison malt bill with cascade hops at 60, 20, and 5 mins (35IBUs) with WLP566, which is probably the closest white labs equivalent. Nice to hear somebody else thought a similar idea would be tasty.

A couple random thoughts:

no sugar to help dry it out?

I bet the fruityish northwest hops go well with the saison esters. I`ll let you how mine goes when I bottle in a couple of weeks. What does the rye add? I really have no idea....

Since you're using malted rye, I'd suggest upping the amount a bit. Flaked -- if you weren't familiar with it -- will give you a sharper rye flavor, ounce per ounce. Since that's what I like, that's what I use, at 1.5 lbs to 7 lbs light LME (plus a couple more things, of course). Just a thought.

Thanks for the tips. I already have a bunch of malted rye, so I'm using that. i'll up it a bit. Might also add sugar to dry it out. Bendbiker - I'm using rye to give it a spicy/crisp/dry flavor.

I really like Sterling to compliment the rye. My favorite rye ale uses Sterling and Crystal.

Does anyone have anything to say about the victory or caramunich? More? Less? Crazy?

Also, my other Saison used Pilsner malt, and I'm going to try pale in this one. I suppose I should probably go with some sugar in here.

The other thing I'm wondering about is whether or not I should toss a bit of torrified wheat in the mix too.

I just bottled a Saison last week. I used 30% Rye malt. The sample that I tried was delicious. Go for it, the worst that can happen is that you wont love it.

So here is the final recipe. Bottled it tonight. It is delicious!

This is for an 11G batch.

1.052 at 80% efficiency

8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.00 %
5 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 25.00 %
2 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
1 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
6.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 1.88 %
1.50 oz Sterling [7.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [17.00 %] (30 min) Hops 8.8 IBU
0.75 oz Summit [17.00 %] (10 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
1.00 oz Sterling [7.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.15 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
2oz Cascade Dry hops 14 days
2 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 10.00 %

I only got half of this beer, because I split it with a friend. Here is what I did with my 5.5 gallons:

3711 french saison yeast. Fermented in primary for 1 week, added dry hops (1oz cascade), left in fermenter for 14 more days, then bottled with 4.5oz of corn sugar (in 5.125 gal of beer)

that sounds like a very nice beer.
I can't wait to get home and get a brew day going.