What Beer Did I Brew? I name the ingredients, you describe the beer.

Yesterday, I gave it my first shot at brewing an all-grain beer without a pre-established recipe or ingredient kit. I'm excited but not really sure what to expect. I was hoping some of the experienced homebrewers on this forum could help me out.

Here's the recipe:

10 lbs 2 Row Pale
1 lb rye
1 lb crystal 60
1 lb crystal 120
1 lb carapils

Hops:
60 min 1 oz Perle
60 min 1 oz Amarillo
15 min 2 oz Amarillo
5 min 2 oz Amarillo


The wort came out a deep red color. I mashed at 154 and pitched a vial of White Labs 001 California Ale yeast at 85 degrees. I intend to dry hop 2 oz Amarillo.

What type of beer can I expect from this recipe? Any educated guesses? What type of flavor profile might I expect? Did I overdo it on the crystal malt? What variety of beer might this be called?

3 lbs of crystal is a lot. Your FG is going to end up on the high side

Yikes, something with a high FG and too sweet for me! That bad boy is pushing 30 % caramel malts. Colorwise and Hopwise, Id call it a quasi American Amber. It should have a nice Amarillo Aroma and flavor which should go a long way to balancing out the sweetness of all of that caramel malt. The Cal Ale yeast at 85 degrees will likely toss some fairly big esters as that should be kept down around 70 degrees or lower in a perfect world. I would expect a sweet, fruity, moderately hoppy beer with some raisiny type flavors from using 7% crystal 120. Could be interesting if the sweetness isn't overbearing...

Sounds like an imperial brown ale.

LVBen said:

Sounds like an imperial brown ale.

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When I think brown ale, I think of dry, toasty flavors.

This is no brown ale. It reads like a biggish American Amber, along the lines of Bear Republic Red Rocket, but without the subtlety.

You got yourself a big red that may have some serious esters starting out at 85 degrees.

How about an ORB? OBecian's Red Beast.

Mash at 154 plus 3 lbs crystal malt...plus you pitched the yeast at 85...which means it will ferment out at 90++...plus you didn't make a starter...might be undrinkable...seriously.

heywatchthis said:

mash at 154 plus 3 lbs crystal malt...plus you pitched the yeast at 85...which means it will ferment out at 90++...plus you didn't make a starter...might be undrinkable...seriously.

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rdwhahb

Sounds like I should expect a sweet beer. No worries, though - I enjoy my beers on the sweet and malty side.
"Red Beast" - I like the name!

I've pitched about a dozen batches straight from the vial at 85 degrees and never had a problem.
"Undrinkable?" I have yet to meet a homebrew I didn't like!

I think this is an interesting experiment in throwing together a batch, asking the brew community for predictions, and then comparing notes in a couple of months, to see how close to the mark we were. Thanks for the predictions, I welcome any additional responses.

OBecian said:

I've pitched about a dozen batches straight from the vial at 85 degrees and never had a problem.

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I'm glad you've been lucky. Maybe lots of hops covers up the estery off-flavors from a warm pitching/underpitching of yeast. I'd still recommend cooling to under 70, and pitching a proper amount of yeast for the best beer possible.

It's not a double,but a tripple English mild! ?

I seldom see Amarillo and think English anything.

944play said:

I seldom see Amarillo and think English anything.

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That pretty much sums up my beef with the English. With this much Amarillo I don't think you can go wrong.

Yooper said:

I'm glad you've been lucky. Maybe lots of hops covers up the estery off-flavors from a warm pitching/underpitching of yeast. I'd still recommend cooling to under 70, and pitching a proper amount of yeast for the best beer possible.

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Yeah, thats more of what I'd consider reckless homebrewing than "experimenting". If you want to be able to ferment that hot, try a 3724, 3725, or 3711. 3711 would be better for the amount of crystal you've got.

In an ideal world, it would be nice to cool the wort to 70 degrees, but I ferment in my garage without temp control. I pitch at 85, then overnight, the wort cools down to about 75, and then ferments the next few days in the low 80s / high 70s depending on ambient temp.

The warnings of ruining my beer by pitching at this temp and the hazards of underpitching (even though white labs states that you don't need a starter) might be overstated. This however, is just based on my small experience in homebrewing (15 batches). Or maybe, I am just being "Reckless." What do you more experienced homebrewers think?

I have always thought along the lines of "Eff it, let it rip". I do similar things with left over ingredients. Sometimes the labels are gone from grain bags, or I have a bit of this or a bit of that left around and I just gring it up, mash, boil and throw whatever leftover hops I have laying around in it. So I like the recipe!

I don't think it is that high on the crystals since Carapils doesn't really contribute to flavor. However the 120L is a bit much for my taste but I am not going to knock you for your taste preferences.

Have you ever considered making a saison? That style thrives on fermentation temps anywhere from 60 degrees to "Blood Temperatures". If you found a saison recipe you enjoyed, it could become your new House Ale!

OBecian said:

The warnings of ruining my beer by pitching at this temp and the hazards of underpitching (even though white labs states that you don't need a starter) might be overstated. This however, is just based on my small experience in homebrewing (15 batches). Or maybe, I am just being "Reckless." What do you more experienced homebrewers think?

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Hey, if your beer tastes great to you than I think you're doing just fine! I wouldn't worry about it.

The reason I mentioned it is just that sometimes homebrewers really don't love their beers that much and wonder what exactly is wrong. Sometimes it's a fruity flavor or an off-taste that they can't put their finger on.

But if you don't pick up any off-flavors and enjoy your beer, then I wouldn't change a thing. If you're eager to make a commercial-tasting beer, you may want to consider temperature control and proper yeast pitching. But that's only if you feel that it would be something you want to do.

OBecian said:

In an ideal world, it would be nice to cool the wort to 70 degrees, but I ferment in my garage without temp control. I pitch at 85, then overnight, the wort cools down to about 75, and then ferments the next few days in the low 80s / high 70s depending on ambient temp.

The warnings of ruining my beer by pitching at this temp and the hazards of underpitching (even though white labs states that you don't need a starter) might be overstated. This however, is just based on my small experience in homebrewing (15 batches). Or maybe, I am just being "Reckless." What do you more experienced homebrewers think?

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Why can't you cool your wort below 85?

OBecian said:

In an ideal world, it would be nice to cool the wort to 70 degrees, but I ferment in my garage without temp control. I pitch at 85, then overnight, the wort cools down to about 75, and then ferments the next few days in the low 80s / high 70s depending on ambient temp.

The warnings of ruining my beer by pitching at this temp and the hazards of underpitching (even though white labs states that you don't need a starter) might be overstated. This however, is just based on my small experience in homebrewing (15 batches). Or maybe, I am just being "Reckless." What do you more experienced homebrewers think?

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I think you make a fair point. Can you not make a starter of the proper pitch count and make decent beer? Sure. Can you pitch at higher than ideal temps and make decent beer? Sure. Can you ferment at 85 degrees with strains that perform optimally in the 60's? Sure. Here is the rub: Can you make an excellent beer using less to considerably less than optimal processes? No. I think this is where the concern comes from regarding this thread. We all strive for something different as a homebrewer. Some of us are happy to make decent drinkable beer with our own two hands. Some of us are pleased to make a good beer with our own two hands. Some of us strive to make commercial grade quality beer with our own two hands. It's a brilliant hobby that we can all do at different levels of skill based on our own taste, our own skill, and our own budgets. It truly is a wonderful hobby for people who have many different expectations. Rock on brother and Cheers!

mhenry41h said:

I think you make a fair point. Can you not make a starter of the proper pitch count and make decent beer? Sure. Can you pitch at higher than ideal temps and make decent beer? Sure. Can you ferment at 85 degrees with strains that perform optimally in the 60's? Sure. Here is the rub: Can you make an excellent beer using less to considerably less than optimal processes? No. I think this is where the concern comes from regarding this thread. We all strive for something different as a homebrewer. Some of us are happy to make decent drinkable beer with our own two hands. Some of us are pleased to make a good beer with our own two hands. Some of us strive to make commercial grade quality beer with our own two hands. It's a brilliant hobby that we can all do at different levels of skill based on our own taste, our own skill, and our own budgets. It truly is a wonderful hobby for people who have many different expectations. Rock on brother and Cheers!

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Yup, agree 100%. It just seems that the key to making good beer is in the fermentation control so I don't understand why people skimp here. If his temps get down to 75 overnight, I'd rather do that and pitch then. Its also virtually free to throw the fermenter in a tub with water and frozen milk jugs. Just change it out once a day and it should stay in the upper 60's. You will certainly tell a difference in a beer fermented at 68 vs 85 with all variables being the same. It's hardly any more effort or money. But if your happy with your results then do what your doing. :rockin:

A couple of months ago, I presented the forum members with an experimental recipe (see below) and I took advantage of last night's black out in San Diego to share the first few bottles with my neighbors, who are reliable for honest feedback.

Wow! This is my best homebrew to date!
Here are some of my notes: there were some concerns that such high levels of crystal malt would produce an overly sweet beer. However, a good amount of amarillo hops went a long way in balancing out the malt. Notes of 'caramel' would be a better description than 'sweet.' On the maltiness scale, I would say that this beer rates slightly more than a Stone Pale Ale, but much less than a Newcastle.
The color is a medium red, with a moderate hop. There is a slight bit of fruitiness, likely produced by the fermentation temps, but nothing in terms of undesirable or significant estery flavors.

Overall, I would say this beer compares to a slightly maltier version of Shark Bite Red, produced by Pizza Port (which is only a few blocks from my house). I would call that a success!


Thanks to all the forum homebrewers who responded with their insights and suggestions!



Recipe:
10 lbs 2 Row Pale
1 lb rye
1 lb crystal 60
1 lb crystal 120
1 lb carapils

Hops:
60 min 1 oz Perle
60 min 1 oz Amarillo
15 min 2 oz Amarillo
5 min 2 oz Amarillo

Got any pictures? It sounds like an interesting recipe.

OBecian said:

A couple of months ago, I presented the forum members with an experimental recipe (see below) and I took advantage of last night's black out in San Diego to share the first few bottles with my neighbors, who are reliable for honest feedback.

Wow! This is my best homebrew to date!
Here are some of my notes: there were some concerns that such high levels of crystal malt would produce an overly sweet beer. However, a good amount of amarillo hops went a long way in balancing out the malt. Notes of 'caramel' would be a better description than 'sweet.' On the maltiness scale, I would say that this beer rates slightly more than a Stone Pale Ale, but much less than a Newcastle.
The color is a medium red, with a moderate hop. There is a slight bit of fruitiness, likely produced by the fermentation temps, but nothing in terms of undesirable or significant estery flavors.

Overall, I would say this beer compares to a slightly maltier version of Shark Bite Red, produced by Pizza Port (which is only a few blocks from my house). I would call that a success!


Thanks to all the forum homebrewers who responded with their insights and suggestions!



Recipe:
10 lbs 2 Row Pale
1 lb rye
1 lb crystal 60
1 lb crystal 120
1 lb carapils

Hops:
60 min 1 oz Perle
60 min 1 oz Amarillo
15 min 2 oz Amarillo
5 min 2 oz Amarillo

Click to expand...

Yikes, something with a high FG and too sweet for me! That bad boy is pushing 30 % caramel malts. Colorwise and Hopwise, Id call it a quasi American Amber. It should have a nice Amarillo Aroma and flavor which should go a long way to balancing out the sweetness of all of that caramel malt. The Cal Ale yeast at 85 degrees will likely toss some fairly big esters as that should be kept down around 70 degrees or lower in a perfect world. I would expect a sweet, fruity, moderately hoppy beer with some raisiny type flavors from using 7% crystal 120. Could be interesting if the sweetness isn't overbearing...

Sounds like I did pretty well in my guess! Missed out on the FG and sweetness but all and all... :rockin: