****ing Walmart Shoppers

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Sean said:
It is time to adapt or the US will end up like France or UK; Slightly socialistic, highly taxed, (if you think you are taxed now, just wait, and I am not talking about the new admin.), and without opportunity.
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You have to be careful when you point out that the UK is "socialistic" and "highly taxed". The average standard of living in the UK may be slightly lower than the US but the people at the bottom are a lot better taken care of. It's not like the taxes disappear and you never see anything from them.

The US government and media keeps selling the message that even mild socialism is bad, not to mention taxation. They get to say that and everyone nods even though they never provide evidence. I heard a politician on NPR earlier this year say of Clinton's health plan "it's just European socialized medicine and that doesn't work". Now I lived in the UK for 35 years and people weren't exactly dying in the streets. People don't have to worry whether they can afford treatment at least.

"Taxation without representation" isn't unreasonable. Well you have representation and have had for a few hundred years. Pay up! :p
 
Sean said:
I feel sorry for the fellow that died, I feel sorry for his family, and I feel sorry for everyone that works at Walmart.

Unrelated to that, Walmart is the face of globalization. The US must compete with China, India, Pakistan, and other developing countries that want a decent standard of living. The US worker must compete with someone who will do a very good job for poor wages, or US workers must improvise and adapt. They must offer something Walmart cannot offer. I am not suggesting I know what that is. I just know the US must adapt. Workers cannot expect to make $15 per hour for doing a simple un-skilled job.

It is time to adapt or the US will end up like France or UK; Slightly socialistic, highly taxed, (if you think you are taxed now, just wait, and I am not talking about the new admin.), and without opportunity.
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This is why I cringe when the gooberment wants votes so it raises the minimum wage. Everytime that happens, cost of goods goes up, hours are cutback because small businesses can't afford to pay more. That then creates the big box stores like Walley Mart. Other countries don't have the same labor laws we have in place so they get away with paying less and we'll keep getting the illegals coming across the border. It's a vicious circle.
I'm not sure who is to blame on this death. Was it the 6'5" 275lb dude who busted open the door? Was Walley World unprepared? All the above? Lots of stores had similar sales and no one else was killed. it was total fubar!
 
Sean said:
I feel sorry for the fellow that died, I feel sorry for his family, and I feel sorry for everyone that works at Walmart.

Unrelated to that, Walmart is the face of globalization. The US must compete with China, India, Pakistan, and other developing countries that want a decent standard of living. The US worker must compete with someone who will do a very good job for poor wages, or US workers must improvise and adapt. They must offer something Walmart cannot offer. I am not suggesting I know what that is. I just know the US must adapt. Workers cannot expect to make $15 per hour for doing a simple un-skilled job.

It is time to adapt or the US will end up like France or UK; Slightly socialistic, highly taxed, (if you think you are taxed now, just wait, and I am not talking about the new admin.), and without opportunity.
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bull****. the smaller companies were doing just fine until walmart moved in and SHUT THEM DOWN. those smaller companies can get similar products...may be a little higher price, but who cares?

walmart makes even the suppliers hurt. what are they supposed to do when walmart forces them to be a sole supplier and then forces them to cut their prices or they will abandon them?

they're aggressive tactics are highly profitable and wholly unethical.
 
HBHoss said:
Lots of stores had similar sales and no one else was killed. it was total fubar!
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I think Walley World are the pinnacle of "buy loads of stuff you don't need for little money". Maybe the shoppers that attracts are greedier because of this. Of course WalMart advertises itself this way so it comes back to them too. Who's to blame? Reagan and Thatcher? Advertising agencies? Adam Smith? Fuctifino!
 
DeathBrewer said:
bull****. the smaller companies were doing just fine until walmart moved in and SHUT THEM DOWN. those smaller companies can get similar products...may be a little higher price, but who cares?

walmart makes even the suppliers hurt. what are they supposed to do when walmart forces them to be a sole supplier and then forces them to cut their prices or they will abandon them?

they're aggressive tactics are highly profitable and wholly unethical.
Click to expand...

Capitalism.
 
HBHoss said:
This is why I cringe when the gooberment wants votes so it raises the minimum wage. Everytime that happens, cost of goods goes up, hours are cutback because small businesses can't afford to pay more. That then creates the big box stores like Walley Mart. Other countries don't have the same labor laws we have in place so they get away with paying less and we'll keep getting the illegals coming across the border. It's a vicious circle.
I'm not sure who is to blame on this death. Was it the 6'5" 275lb dude who busted open the door? Was Walley World unprepared? All the above? Lots of stores had similar sales and no one else was killed. it was total fubar!
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no, raising minimum wage DID NOT create walmart. greedy sons of bitches that care about nothing but their bottom line created walmart.

smaller stores usually pay better wages (if they are smart) and have a good, reliable, knowledgable, but relatively small staff.

and there's the "uh oh, socialism is bad" thing again. don't bite the hook.

capitalism is great...monopolies are made of FAIL.
 
GroovePuppy said:
You have to be careful when you point out that the UK is "socialistic" and "highly taxed". The average standard of living in the UK may be slightly lower than the US but the people at the bottom are a lot better taken care of. It's not like the taxes disappear and you never see anything from them.

The US government and media keeps selling the message that even mild socialism is bad, not to mention taxation. They get to say that and everyone nods even though they never provide evidence. I heard a politician on NPR earlier this year say of Clinton's health plan "it's just European socialized medicine and that doesn't work". Now I lived in the UK for 35 years and people weren't exactly dying in the streets. People don't have to worry whether they can afford treatment at least.

"Taxation without representation" isn't unreasonable. Well you have representation and have had for a few hundred years. Pay up! :p
Click to expand...

A fine post indeed!! I'll pay up.. The media is crap, they sell stuff just like every other business....

The US is already at a level of mild socialism, and it is not a terrible thing. I do not want to pay 40% tax, and a VAT of 8%, I do not want to wait 6 months for a doctor appointment. I will work, whatever the work, and I will pay for what I get. That is my choice, and I would prefer for it to remain my choice. :rockin:
 
Sean said:
A fine post indeed!! I'll pay up.. The media is crap, they sell stuff just like every other business....
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Hey, no fair agreeing with people! :D

Sean said:
The US is already at a level of mild socialism, and it is not a terrible thing. I do not want to pay 40% tax, and a VAT of 8%,
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I already pay over 8% sales tax. How is that different. In the UK VAT is pre-added so what you see is what you pay. Now that is fairer to the consumer. I pay less tax in the US but I get to pay for water directly and my property taxes are much higher. My health care is extortionate and I get a reasonably good deal through my employer.

Sean said:
I do not want to wait 6 months for a doctor appointment.
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Once again the media wins. Never had to wait 6 months myself in the UK. To see my regular doctor takes just as long here as in the UK. Actually one of my UK doctors operated a no appointment system, just show up and take a number. You wait in the waiting room longer but you got to see him same day. Oh and it was already paid for in my taxes!

Sure you might end up on a waiting list if you have an ingrown toenail but you can still by private healthcare in the UK if you want it. I had it free through my employer before I moved but never used it out of principle.

Sean said:
I will work, whatever the work, and I will pay for what I get. That is my choice, and I would prefer for it to remain my choice. :rockin:
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I respect your confidence in capitalism but I look to the current financial crisis. I'm not pro-socialism any more like I was as a naive teenager but I think some sort of centrist balance couldn't hurt. **** it, people just need to look to their neighbors and treat them as human beings, that'd be a start.
 
McKBrew said:
No one attacks the the over 1300 Target stores, 1000+ Kmart stores, 538 Costco stores, 2100 Home Depots, 7000 Walgrens, or 1200 Lowes locations with the same level of hatred as Walmart gets. Sure there might be more Walmarts, but how many cities without a Walmart have one of these other stores "supposedly" killing the local mom and pop business. 5700 Walmart stores providing jobs that probably were not there before, yeah real bad.
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Those stores dont censor music. I refuse to buy music at Wal-Mart for the simple fact they wont sell it uncensored. I dont agree with it ergo they dont get my money for it. I do shop at Wal Mart for tons of other stuff though. I can get the same golf balls that I get at golf smith for 10-15$ a dozen cheaper at Wal Mart. Dont hate the stores, just find it odd that they are such an American store and seem to have an issue with our right to free speach.

As for the topic at hand. This could have happened at any store. I just saw a story today that 2 of the people in the stampede are suing Wal-Mart for 2 million dollars in missed earnings and suffering from the event. What maroons...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/02/walmart.trampling.suit/index.html
 
Hey Groove puppy, there is an old hiking saying, "Take only pictures, leave only footprints."

I try to abide by it. 'Leave the land as you found it' kind of thing. But the average individual will not, and does not know why he/she should. They do not understand. They think, "I am here now, and I am going to take as much as I can." Treating your neighbor like a human being is a great start, but people don't tend to be that way.

I am not really as cynical as that sounds.

Luck to you!
 
people that don't treat their neighbors right make me want to punch them in the face

:D

srsly, tho...what a sad world. most people don't give a **** about anything except sitting on their fat ass with the latest crap blockbuster in their brand new 20-disc DVD player while sipping on a 2L coke and eating frozen dinners, all the while crapping all over the world with garbage and methane.

ugh.
 
DeathBrewer said:
people that don't treat their neighbors right make me want to punch them in the face

:D

srsly, tho...what a sad world. most people don't give a **** about anything except sitting on their fat ass with the latest crap blockbuster in their brand new 20-disc DVD player while sipping on a 2L coke and eating frozen dinners, all the while crapping all over the world with garbage and methane.

ugh.
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20-disc DVD player?!?!?!?
WHERE CAN I GET ONE OF THOSE??!?!?! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I will not shop at Wal-mart. Ever. It's just my choice to do that, based on people I know who have worked for Wal-mart and their experiences, as well as information gleaned from WakeupWalmart.com and "The High cost of Low Prices". Yes, they are cheaper on most items. I can respect that many people shop there in good conscience, but I can not.

We "supplement" Wal-mart's low prices by them not having health insurance for the vast majority of their workers (Medicaid). Other USA corporations and Mom and Pop stores don't have that benefit. There are dozens of other issues that I won't go into now. It really doesn't matter WHY I choose to not shop there.

My family's little boycott of Wal-mart doesn't affect their bottom line, but it makes me feel like in some small way I'm standing up for American families and local businesses.
 
DeathBrewer said:
people that don't treat their neighbors right make me want to punch them in the face

:D

srsly, tho...what a sad world. most people don't give a **** about anything except sitting on their fat ass with the latest crap blockbuster in their brand new 20-disc DVD player while sipping on a 2L coke and eating frozen dinners, all the while crapping all over the world with garbage and methane.

ugh.
Click to expand...

are you like psychic or something? I know you've not been to my house. Frozen dinners aren't THAT bad, just a little crunchy and give me brain freeze if I try to eat it too fast. ;)
 
WOW!!! Is it too late for me to get in on this action?

What I'd like to say more than anything is I'm continually amazed with the banter I read on this site, mostly in a good way!

You know all of this could have been avoided if our country had fewer politicians, more statesmen (statespersons for the pc), fewer lawyers(read almost NONE), and no lawyers whom are politicians (first draft of the constitution barred the scumbums from holding office). How... what... do lawyers have to do with this... everything! The overwhelming majority of politicians are lawyers, think like lawyers, are lobbied by lawyers, hang out with lawyers, marry lawyers, live in thier elitist lawyer communities... so maybe that last one goes a bit too far, but you get the idea and I wouldn't be supprised if it were true! The problem with WalMart is the "global economy" brought on by.... whom else but politicians and greedy Bastard corporations in conjunction with lawyers could have caused this?

A country with a 40 hr work week, minimum wage laws, and independent free market driven economy can not compete with manufactured goods produced by countries and corporations employing workers for 10-12 hrs a day 6 days a week for dollars a day. That doesn't even touch on the state run corporations. Apply the above to the earlier story about Coleman coolers and you have EXACTLY what I'm posting about. Then multiply it by the thousands for the thousands of manufacturers which can no longer survive in this country unless government wants to eleminate trillions in taxes and reduce the minimum wage back to 1970's standards! Don't know about yall but I can't live on $3 bucks an hour! Asking companies here to compete with those conditions without offering protections WILL NOT WORK! Thusly we no longer have a manufacturing base... aside from a few small specialty items(mostly costly high end products and big budget items).

So like the good book says... the root of all evil is "the love of money" (translation greed). That's what got those shoppers out at 5 AM for 'deals' on black Fday.

Yea I shop at WalMart, but not when I can avoid it. Same way with HomeDepot etc.

Everytime something new/big happens the lawmakers (catch that, we no longer call them congressmen or especially statesmen) rush to create new laws too meet it. We don't need the "rule of law", we need common sense! Common sense is dead, PERIOD! Our fabulous lawmakers and judges bar school systems from informing parents that thier child is having an abortion, but require the same parents to come to the school to administer tylenol because of "accountability issues".

Who's to blame for the state of our country? Yes I say it's the lawyers/politicians, but we should all take a very long look in the mirror for a few answers!

Schlante,
Phillip

Ps The mean household income in this country is less than 40K a year. "White trash", hood rats, hoodlums, rednecks, etc. (use what ever derogatory term you prefer) have little choice in where to shop, that's why poor people pack the big box stores. Folks do what is necessary to survive/live the best. Poverty is essentially the sole pervue of the uneducated. I find it elitist at best to make fun of/make derogatory remarks about people just because they're too poor to have options to shop elsewhere. Not really much different than calling any black man with baggy pants a ******! It's just wrong. The world needs more love and honesty not condesendance.
 
MVKTR2 said:
Who's to blame for the state of our country? Yes I say it's the lawyers/politicians, but we should all take a very long look in the mirror for a few answers!
Click to expand...

YOU are the walmart

sp809_Something_Wall-Mart_This_Way_Comes_2.jpg
 
MVKTR2 said:
Not really much different than calling any black man with baggy pants a ******!
Click to expand...

They wear baggy pants because they're poor?

Are baggy pants cheaper?

Strangely enough, where I work, the inmates don't pay for their pants, not matter what size they wear.

The gang banger *****ebags still go for the baggy ones- even though it isn't allowed.
 
Deathbrewer said:
well the market is full of greedy, self-involved, consumer-whore robots who have to have everything they see, whether they need it or not.
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Last time I checked it was EVERYWHERE in the US, NOT just WalMart. Need a barometer for that? Did you notice every ****ing store had their Christmas **** out right after Halloween? How about TV? All I see is Wii commercials, PS3, Xbox 360 and how some ****'s "only available at Toys R Us." Black Friday is bad EVERYWHERE.

Deathbrewer said:
it's something we created...we'll need education to get people away from it. please teach your kids how not to be consumer whores.
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Already there. Got in trouble with SWMBO for telling my oldest once "want in one hand, **** in the other and see which one fills first" (probably 'cause of the language I used :p) My neighbors, OTOH, are the ones that have to have the status symbols, have to brag about how much money they spend and how they go out and buy everything their kids cry for. They don't know how to say "no" and their kids know it.

Again, this is American society in 2008, not just "WalMart and not everywhere else" 2008. Gotta have the 9mpg Hummer H2 to compensate for lack of other things. Gotta have all the name brand Hollister, etc. **** 'cause it makes me look like I have more money than the next guy.

You can't buy self-esteem but people sure as hell do try.

This is our society. It's all about me and **** the other guy. It's sad and disappointing, but it's reality.

Donasay said:
I wholeheartedly disagree, it is 100% under-preparation on the part of that store that caused the death of that worker. They did not employ any basic crowd control procedures that could have prevented that death. Two simple things could have prevented that employees death: 1) a line so people don't mob around the door, and 2) additional security to make sure people form a line and then enter in an orderly fashion.
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They PUSHED THE WHOLE FREAKIN' DOOR DOWN. Do you really think little red ropes or some rent-a-cop would suffice in the face of a huge crowd that managed to push an entire door down? You're giving people way to much credit. My guess is if the guy under the door didn't foresee the door coming down, how was the store supposed to?

Preventable? Hind sight is 20/20. There's a fine line between carelessness and overkill, and it's judged by the outcome by Monday morning-quarterbackers.
 
FireBrewer said:
This is our society. It's all about me and **** the other guy. It's sad and disappointing, but it's reality.



They PUSHED THE WHOLE FREAKIN' DOOR DOWN. Do you really think little red ropes or some rent-a-cop would suffice in the face of a huge crowd that managed to push an entire door down? You're giving people way to much credit. My guess is if the guy under the door didn't foresee the door coming down, how was the store supposed to?
Click to expand...



THAT is the problem, as I see it. As I stated in an earlier post, a Wal-mart whereI used to live had problems on "Black Friday" three years running, and never did ANYTHING to help prevent future incidents, other than trying to put the blame on the police. The "security guard" had NO crowd control training.
 
kjung said:
THAT is the problem, as I see it. As I stated in an earlier post, a Wal-mart whereI used to live had problems on "Black Friday" three years running, and never did ANYTHING to help prevent future incidents, other than trying to put the blame on the police. The "security guard" had NO crowd control training.
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Well that and we're talking sheer numbers. There's not enough police around to babysit a WalMart, especially with receding public safety budgets in this economy.

If the store is having issues repeatedly, there are at fault to a degree. But they're not the ones pushing the door down and again the primary responsibility lies on the individual(s). Who foresaw this happening? You could put money on trampling in the store, granted but a whole large sliding door?
 
Sean said:
Treating your neighbor like a human being is a great start, but people don't tend to be that way.

I am not really as cynical as that sounds.

Luck to you!
Click to expand...

Can't disagree with you and I doubt you're really being cynical. It's a sad fact that too many people default to the "me first" behaviour mode at the first opportunity. WalMart employees et al are doomed to be crushed, literally and metaphorically!

Cheers! :mug:
 
FireBrewer said:
They PUSHED THE WHOLE FREAKIN' DOOR DOWN. Do you really think little red ropes or some rent-a-cop would suffice in the face of a huge crowd that managed to push an entire door down?
Click to expand...

Actually yes it would be sufficient if used properly. The problem was one of crowd control which is all about psychology. Make a obvious line to get into the store and most people will get in the line. Some rent a cops are there to control and help those that don't. Then there is no longer a mob at the door but a somewhat organized crowd ready to file in.

I sure this mob was nearly as bad last year but nothing serious happened so the management ignored the problem.

As for Walmart, I have not enjoyed my experiences shopping in their stores so I very seldom go. I do go to Target occasionally as I find the experience considerably better but I prefer to shop the smaller local shops. The local Ace and grocery has similar prices on most items and most of the employees I see there have been there for years. The owners of both are usually found helping customers and most employees seem eager to help. Walmart uses effective strong arm tactics to squeeze every last penny out of the price of a product. Their practices are questionable and they often result in even more questionable practices from their suppliers. I'm not saying that Walmart is the only one to blame, they are just the largest, most successful and most aggressive retailer. I prefer the store that makes some effort to support local suppliers and pay reasonable wages and benefits to employees.

Craig
 
My friend put it right the other night when we were discussing this/Black Friday in general- "Walmart killed". He is working part time at Circuit City, just for the extra cash for his family, and he was referring to sales whys. Somehow they managed to do $30 under any competitor for about the same things, while all the other competitors were equal with each other.
 

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