Bottle Harvest - Failure?

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T2P

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So I want to do a Hennepin Ommegang clone and figured the best way to succeed would be to pick up a couple of bombers and harvest the yeast from it (verified that bottle and primary strain are identicle).

I followed the rule of 1 g of DME to 10ml and made a 50g 500 ml starter. Unfortunately I had no yeast nutrient so that may be a drawback. After cooling the starter I pitched bottom 3/4 to an inch of beer dregs from a bomber of Ommegang that I poured the beer from and let come to room temp. This was in a 2L flask (only one I have)

It was on my stirplate for 3 days. There was a layer of foam more akin to carbonation than true krausen. Additionally, it appeared that the starter become more cloudy. I turned the stirplate off and put the flask in the fridge as the instructions said. 2 days later it looks the same. No layer on the bottom and still slightly foamy.

What should I do now to continue/save this process?
What should I have done to do this correctly that I didn't?
Can someone explain the stepup process a little bit more thoroughly for me?
 
Sounds like you just need to keep growing it. Add 1000mL of starter wort and put it back on the stirplate. Hopefully after this iteration you'll get a bit of yeast flocculation. Then you can chill, decant, and continue building up.

I think people usually start with just 50mL for the first buildup step, so you may have overshot with the 500mL. Not to worry you too much, but when you have just a tiny bit of yeast going into that much wort there's a lot more chance for other organisms out-competing the yeast.

Don't scrap your experiment, but I do recommend that you test your strain by making a 1-2gal beer of average gravity (once you build up some more). If it has decent flavor qualities, then harvest the yeast and you'll be ready to make a full batch.
 
Did you get yeast out of just one bottle? I would get the dregs from as many as possible for your best bet. I harvest yeast from every bottle in a case of Dead Guy Ale before I tried growing it.
 
Thanks for the input kanzimonson I will try it.

bknifefight I used a bomber of Ommegang. So one bottle, yes but wouldn't the larger volume (22 ounces) yield a larger yeast sample? I may be wrong in assuming that is how it would work.

I have a second bomber. Do people think I should use dregs from that one to add when I do the stepup outlined in kanzimonson's directions?
 
Not that it matters, but it's 25.4 oz (750 ml), not 22.

Anyways, sure there was yeast there, and more than what would be in a 12 oz, but having more means having more viable cells, which is important. The more yeast, the better.
 
So would pitching the new yeast during the stepup process cause any problems? For example if something other than the ommegang yeast already took hold with too few viable cells or too large of a wort to yeast ratio in the first attempt?
 
Put it this way: if you're going to drink your other bottle, put the yeast in. If you'd rather save the beer, then continue with the current experiment.

If you don't put the second yeast in, you'll at least have eliminated one more variable if something goes wrong. Nothing sucks more than something going wrong and you having a huge list of suspicions and the inability to determine the source.
 
I've had the same problem as OP. You probably started out with too large a first step. I'd keep following kanzimonson's directions. It will just take a while for the yeast to get going. And by all means if you are going to drink the other beer, pitch those dregs in the starter. More yeast isn't a bad thing.
 
Keep in mind these yeast are dormant, they will need some time to get going again (more than a 2 days), yeast nutrient will help with this process as well. Also did you let the dregs warm up for a few hours before pitching? If the yeast/dregs were still chilled in the bomber that could add to the time needed to see good growth. Good luck! :mug:
 
When I originally pitched I did let the yeast warm for about an hour and a half after pouring off the beer. So I think tonight I am going to try this.

Get home and take the original attempt flask out of the fridge (already covered) and put it on the counter to warm. Crack open the second bottle and the dregs in the bottle after the pour. Put sanitized aluminum foil over the neck to keep bad bugs out while it and the original warm for a couple hours.

After warming I will put together another 1.040 starter (should I use 500ml or 1000ml additional?). Add the new starter to the old attempt, pitch second bottle yeast to the whole and put it on the stirplate not to be touched for a week or two.

How does this sound?
 
I'd do a small starter addition since you aren't sure whether the first fully fermented. I wouldn't worry about pitching too cold, people do it all the time and report great results. Pitching too hot on the other hand...

If it were me I'd get the yeast out the bottle and into a clean starter asap, no need for it to sit on the counter all evening.
 
Did you get yeast out of just one bottle? I would get the dregs from as many as possible for your best bet. I harvest yeast from every bottle in a case of Dead Guy Ale before I tried growing it.

Just as an FYI - Dead Guy is the worst Rogue ale for trying to culture Pacman. Most of the yeast is filtered out.

You're much better off using Brutal Bitter and Shakespeare Stout.
 
Alright I got a small starter mixed up (250 ml), added it to the original flask once cooled, pitched the yeast from bottle number 2 and away we go.

On a positive side note I got home from work today and while there was not a layer in the bottom there was enough shadowing to create a very distinct haze lower in the flask. Looked slightly suspended like unflocculated yeast.
 
Just as an FYI - Dead Guy is the worst Rogue ale for trying to culture Pacman. Most of the yeast is filtered out.

You're much better off using Brutal Bitter and Shakespeare Stout.

That's why I ended up having to use every bottle in the case, there was just such a small amount in each bottle. I didn't buy the beer for the sole purpose of harvesting yeast, the idea only came when I noticed the yeast there and decided to give it a go. It worked out great for me, by the way.
 
Alright so I ultimately stepped up the starter to 1500ml. I let it ferment on the stirplate until there was almost no foam on top. The final result was that there is a peach almost rubbery consistency line at the liquid level, the inside of which is a greenish gray? I was curious regardless and put the flask in the fridge for about a week. The result is that the top couple of inches were clear like the starter wort while the rest was a chocolate milk looking consistency (hazy tan/brown). It did not smell off but there was no yeast layer in the bottom.

What now?
 
FWIW....in the future...

I say use a sterile loop and streak dregs onto semi-solid medium.

Pick indivicuals colonies, inoculate and scale up.
 
It did ferment on the stir plate? If you saw krausen and had airlock activity (if you didn't use just tin foil), you should have yeast in there. The hazy tan layer is the yeast.
 
Shouldn't the hazy layer drop out in the fridge though and create a nice white ring/layer in the bottom of the flask?

I did not use foil. I used the upside down sanitized beaker method so that it was within mm of the rim of the flask. Basically a one way barrier style.
 
I thought you were saying the hazy tan layer was on the bottom, I reread your post and understand now. You should take a picture and post it so we can see what's going on with it.
 
I guess I made it even less clear for you than haha. The hazy layer is at the bottom. When I have done starters from smack packs in the bottom, completed the fermentation and then put the flask in the fridge the flask has an almost sold white layer of yeast on the bottom. This, while easily distinguishable from the wort, is lighter and more like suspended sediment.


 
So we brewed up a 5 gallon batch of this Saturday night and finished up around 9pm. The yeast smelled sour instead of bready like most yeasts I have used in the past. After looking Saison yeast up online it did indicate that they do often smell slightly sour. Treating it as a learning experience we pitched to see what would happen. As of last night (72 hours later) there is no activity. No bubbles, nothing even floating on top. Is it possible that this was that slow to get started or did this fail?

What the heck did we pitch?

Would it be worth picking up a Wyeast smack pack, making a starter and adding it to the batch or is this one shot?
 
Another point to note is that our S.G was at 1.066 for the recipe. The beer smith estimates were about this for extract and about 1.075 for partial mash. Not sure if we did acheive attenuation or whether it was not truely a partial mash. We added the 2 lbs of grain to 3qt of water at 150 and mashed for 45 min. Then added the grain to 1.5wt clean 170 degree water for about 10 min to remove the sugars. Combine the water and topped to 3 gallons to prepare the boil.
 
Bottle Harvest number 2 worry. I am using a 2 liter flask with about 500 ml of liquid at this point after a couple of step-ups. I looked in the flask today and below the neck but above the starter there is a green spot about the size of a pencil eraser head. Am I doing something wrong?

I sanitize the flask, spoon, boiling pot, stirbar, glass, rubber hosing, etc prior to starting. The hosing goes on top of the flask and the glass rests upside down to create a barrier. I read that this allows oxygen in but keeps bad things out. Perhaps this is not correct and foil is the better route to take?
 
If you are using a glass flask you should boil it not just sanitize it. At this point in the process you want everything to be as close to sterile as possible so anything that can be boiled, should be. I hope you tried again and succeeded. I am going to try culturing up some Ommegang this week.

Paul
 
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