Beer makes mouth numb

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rviator325

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Afternoon/morning all; unfortunately my first post on this board is about a questionable brew. I've been lurking for a few months and have learned so much from everyone.

I've brewed 6 five-gallon extract batches and have been having a good time doing it. I consider the first 2 batches a wash; drinkable but a bunch of noob mistakes. 3rd and 4th batches (a Belgian Trippel (bottled) and a Weisen (kegged)) came out great. I was about to rack my 5th batch, a Strong Scottish, to a carboy after 12 days in primary and noticed a very unpleasant taste while taking a SG sample. It started out at 1.072, within 2 points of predicted OG, and is at 1.021 today, also within 2 points of predicted FG. Anyways, the taste makes my mouth feel numb, very much like chloraseptic. The only other post of similar nature on here I found was: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/beer-makes-my-mouth-feel-numb-161653/ .

I already plan to let it sit on the yeast cake for another week, but I haven't had this 'issue' with the other 4 batches I've brewed and tasted. I have the recipe in the garage, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. I chilled the 3 gallon wort pretty quickly with a home-made immersion chiller, topped off to 5.25 gallons, and let it ferment in a 6.5 gallon bucket at 70 degrees in the living room (SWMBO has no problem since the Weisen is all hers).

So, in order to introduce myself, and to find an answer to this issue, I ask for assistance from the pro's. Any ideas as to the numb-ness of the brew?

Thanks!
Robert
 
I'm no pro, but I'll go with the answer I gave in the other thread. Phenol is the active ingredient in Chloraseptic, which is rather renowned for its ability to make your mouth feel numb.

70* is a bit low for phenol production, but with some types of yeast it may have been hot enough.
 
If you fermented the beer at 70F ambient temps then your beer could have been fermenting at 75-80F. The metabolic activity of yeast can raise the temps of the beer by 5-10 degrees. Many around here try to keep the ambient temps of where they ferment in the mid to low 60s so that at no point would fermentation temps get above 70.

Did a lot of hops go into this batch? Sometimes bitterness can "numb" the mouth. Also higher ABV beers sometimes require a little longer conditioning before they become drinkable. Leave it in the primary for 3-4 weeks and try it again.
 
The answers could be numerous as well as very unique. Whatever you are experiencing is definitely an uncommon problem, if not sliding into the rare category, and I doubt anyone can really place the "off-flavor", or if it actually is numbing, "the lack there-of" without tasting it.

Of course, you could be experiencing a hypersensitivity to something in the beer. I would investigate to see what kind of malt hops and yeast went into the beer and compare them to the beer you made previously without the "numbing". Different amounts of kilning of different malts results in a malliard reaction (amino acids bonding to sugars) and produces a wide variety of antigens that some people's immune systems react to. One of the symptoms of a hypersensitivity reaction could be numbing, but I would think swelling and redness would be primary. But like many diseases of the immune system they are terribly individual.

You wouldnt be the first with a beer allergy, some people cant drink dark beer, some people cant drink others.
-Jefe-
 
If you want to rule out an allergy: take a full dose of benadryl about 15-30 minutes before tasting a sample and then try it. If you do not get the same numbing sensation it could indicate an allergy.
 
The recipe my LHBS provided is:

6.5 lbs Amber LME
3.5 lbs Pale LME
0.5 lbs Crystal 40L
0.25 lbs Roasted Barley
0.25 lbs Peated Malt

2 ounces Cascade 60 mins
1/2 ounces Northern Brewer 15 mins

WLP028 Edinburgh Ale, didn't use a starter for this one.

Kind of on the low side of a big brew, but I suppose it should be considered a big brew. The bucket doesn't have a temperature sticky on the side, but ambient temp is pretty stable. During winter here, every other room in this old house is pretty cold and temps are not consistent, thus the living room is the chosen room (and it's a cool conversation starter).

No allergies that I'm aware of; and I'm fond of the stronger and darker beers without any previous 'sensation'.

I appreciate the feedback, and will report back with how the beer mellows out in the coming week, or two.

Thanks again!
 
I've brewed a couple brews that were so bad they made my tongue pucker and tingle a bit (I just assumed it was hop bitterness and carbonation) but never had one go numb.....

Save it for sore throat spray! ;)
 
Hmm...peated malt? I've seen that get a really bad reputation when used in beer. smoked malts are more common.

it might be the 'peatyness' of that peat malt contributing to this odd flavor.
 
It is possible the fluctuation in temps have led to extra phenols in the beer from your yeast. It is possible that, given time, the yeast will also break down these phenols.

Did you use bleach to sanitize your equipment and forget to rinse? Chlorophenols can make that taste. Is your tap water chlorinated?
 
My cleaner/sanitizer of choice has been oxyclean/iodophor. Being a noob, I've been pretty religious with sanitization. I've got no problem letting it sit for a while longer; if anything, it gives me a reason to buy another primary!

The recipe sounded good; it was one my LHBS had in a 3-ring binder. Like I said, I'll let you all know how it turns out. This forum has been awesome.

Hey 'Corkster', the wifey and I love going to Naches every summer for camping. Can't wait to take some home brew with me this year.
 
My cleaner/sanitizer of choice has been oxyclean/iodophor. Being a noob, I've been pretty religious with sanitization. I've got no problem letting it sit for a while longer; if anything, it gives me a reason to buy another primary!

If you are not using chlorine in your process, it is possible that your water contains a larger than normal amount; or it did that day (chlorine levels can fluctuate in municipal water). Have you called your water company to get a copy of their analysis? This is good to have if you ever make the leap to all-grain.

For your next batch, I would take your water out of the tap the night before, and let it sit uncovered overnight. For topping off, or after boil water additions, use bottled spring water.
 
If the room was at 70F, the brew was probably at 73-75F, which is too high for most yeasts. You probably have esters, phenols and 'hot' alcohols.
 
The recipe my LHBS provided is:

6.5 lbs Amber LME
3.5 lbs Pale LME
0.5 lbs Crystal 40L
0.25 lbs Roasted Barley
0.25 lbs Peated Malt

2 ounces Cascade 60 mins
1/2 ounces Northern Brewer 15 mins

WLP028 Edinburgh Ale, didn't use a starter for this one.

Kind of on the low side of a big brew, but I suppose it should be considered a big brew. The bucket doesn't have a temperature sticky on the side, but ambient temp is pretty stable. During winter here, every other room in this old house is pretty cold and temps are not consistent, thus the living room is the chosen room (and it's a cool conversation starter).

No allergies that I'm aware of; and I'm fond of the stronger and darker beers without any previous 'sensation'.

I appreciate the feedback, and will report back with how the beer mellows out in the coming week, or two.

Thanks again!

If the room was at 70F, the brew was probably at 73-75F, which is too high for most yeasts. You probably have esters, phenols and 'hot' alcohols.

What David said, plus not using a starter would really stress the yeast. I'm assuming that you've got major phenols and possibly some fusels.
 
Concerning allergies, does your mouth get numb from commercial beer, or homebrew only?
If it gets numb from both, then its probably allergies.
If its only your homebrew, then start looking at your ingredients, and process...
 
Something I've noticed is my nose will go numb with certain styles of high ABV beers. I notice it more in commercial beers than my homebrews. Belgians are the worst for it, sometimes barelywines.

I figure it's the fusel alcohols.
 
Okay, I know at first this will seem like an odd question, but: are you Asian? I ask because I have a couple Asian friends who have reactions when they drink alcohol that makes their faces very red. Upon further research I discovered it's called "Asian Flush Reaction" and it occurs because many Asians have a missense polymorphism in the gene that codes for acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. I'm not sure if numbness or tingling of the mouth and/or face is a common symptom but it's just a red flag that popped up in my head when I first read the OP. Could explain why it occurs when the beer is of a higher ABV
 
The spot in the living room was pretty convenient and a constant reminder that 'I brew the beer I drink', but I guess I'll look for another place in the house with a slightly lower temperature. And to Reno_eNVy_446, I'm not Asian, White as they come. I forgot to ask my wife to take a sample of the brew and see what she tastes, but it sounds like I got a temp problem and hopefully will clear up in time. Anybody have an idea on how long it could take? If not, I guess I'll be the first and let you all know!
 
So I gave this numbing beer another week in the primary and then racked to the carboy for the last 7 days. I took a sample this morning and the good news is, it doesn't numb my mouth anymore, but it still has a strong phenol/medicinal taste to it. With the advice of this forum, I attribute that to the lack of a starter and slightly high ferment temps.

Anyways, I had hoped I'd be able to bottle today but with this off-taste, I take it as a no-no. Has anyone had a similar experience with phenol and will it go away? Ever? If not, I can't see myself ever drinking this. Should it be dumped, left in the carboy (and for how much longer before giving up?), or should I bottle and let it condition in there for another month?

Thanks for the help!
 
The phenol taste will reduce somewhat, probably not enough to be drinkable if it can numb your mouth though.

I'd say save it for cooking if you've got tons of bottles lying around. Even if it's not drinkable I'm sure it would still make for some good chili, beer battered shrimp, or drunk chicken.
 
...I can't see myself ever drinking this. Should it be dumped, left in the carboy (and for how much longer before giving up?), or should I bottle and let it condition in there for another month?

Thanks for the help!

I've dumped two batches in 7 years...very sad days. Try NOT to dump it. If you can, let it sit in the corner for another month (dry-hopped beers need to be consumed earlier, this may be okay to sit). Get busy on another batch. Then, in a month, if it's still too bad, dump it. But you may be pleasantly surprised...
 
I'm surprised the peated malt angle wasn't pursued more. Some of the peatier Islay malt whiskies taste distinctly of TCP, which would possibly bring that phenolic flavour and sensation.

Have you tried anything like Laphroaig before? Is that an element of what you're sensing?
 
I'm surprised the peated malt angle wasn't pursued more. Some of the peatier Islay malt whiskies taste distinctly of TCP, which would possibly bring that phenolic flavour and sensation.

Have you tried anything like Laphroaig before? Is that an element of what you're sensing?

+10000

Didn't even noticed that in the recipe. That could be the culprit
 
Well, I still haven't dumped the batch. I'm glad I haven't because the phenol is slowly fading. I took a sample last night and besides a small residual taste of phenol, it's pretty good. I'm thinking 2-3 more weeks and I can probably keg/bottle it. Until then, I'll spring for another carboy and move over the next batch.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Maybe I'll run some tests on the peated malt someday; or just stay away from it.
 
Peated malt is strong suff. .25 lbs is really too much imo. I love Scotch, but peated malt in beer doesnt work too well for me, it is very medicinal, which works in whiskey not beer.
 
*zombie thread strikes back*

I've been drinking a lot lately.... Let me rephrase: I've been drinking a lot of different beers lately, not all in the same day.

Any high ABV beer, if I drink enough of it, will make my upper lip numb. Maybe it's a poor man's novicane for me.

Anything high in phenols will do it faster and over a bigger area than anything low in phenols.
 
sorry for resurrecting the dead...

Just kegged my first batch (10 bottled batches to now)... and got the same throat numbing. Never experienced that from beer, so dont think allergies.
I am pretty sure fermentation got a little out of temp control... was left to its own devices in a basement at 68f, so would imagine got up to maybe 75f at peak fermentation.
Was a smash pack 1056, vitality starter on morning of. Finished fast (again, probably due to temp)

Recipe was straightforward amber ale, centennial, amarillo. nothing too odd there

I pbw'd the keg and fittings etc, rinsed with starsan. However the dip tube I rinsed, but didnt get a brush inside

I still think it is fermentation temperature, but could it have been residual pbw?
Water report says 0.6 for chlorine, which doesn't seem high, but I'll be getting campden tablets anyway

I'll also be pouring a batch down the sink I think for the first time...
 
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