Hey everyone, I'm sorry if this was already discussed, I have been searching and I have found lots of information but I just can't seem to wrap my head around what to do. I am new to brewing and have recently decided to try a cider. I plan for it to be a still cider and I was wondering if it could be bottled into a half gallon milk jug seeing as I am not carbonating. I have read the many threads about the permeability of this plastic; however, I just wanted to check and see what the negative effects of such a bottling choice would be. Thanks for all the help, the forum has helped me since I started brewing!
Bottling Tips for the Homebrewer
- Thread starter Revvy
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agodfrey11
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't because of the length of time it would be viable. I would think it would go bad pretty quickly. I would get a capper, bottles, and caps. That way you can keep some long term and see how the flavors change. And if you plan to do more batches the capper is a very small investment.
AugustDerleth
Well-Known Member
I almost added, but then didn't, in my initial post that I specifically did not want to take the faucet in to the store, because the hole I drilled made an extremely snug fit when placing the valve into the bucket. I felt pretty certain that it would widen the hole to pull it back out, then put it back in.
For those who have the typical valves from LHBS, the size 3/4" PVC elbow is the appropriate fit. It took a couple minutes to align it properly with the threads, but it fits snugly and works like a charm. Note that if you use these elbows, you should buy one first, before drilling your hole and placing the valve in order to be able to tell how far off the bottom of your bucket the elbow reaches and placing your valve accordingly. If you make your dip tube out of cane, it's not an issue. Good luck!
agodfrey11
Well-Known Member
I was able to cut my part of pvc elbow with my dremel with no problem to make it fit. It now has maybe a couple of mm of space between it and the bottom when it is installed. I also want to note that i remove my spigot and elbow after each time I bottle to make sure everything gets clean. I find it easier to clean it that way.
AugustDerleth
Well-Known Member
My elbow was actually too short, not too long. This is why I suggested buying it first and using its natural spacing from the bottom of the bucket as a way to decide where to place the valve.
Ah. I do not remove it, and instead clean the bucket and sanitize it as normal with no problems. To each his own.
Wouldn't I run into the same problem with a growler since the lid is not always airtight? I have a capper that I use for my beer I just thought I would bottle in larger amounts so that I could give them away or for larger groups.
agodfrey11
Well-Known Member
I would imagine that a sealed growler would last longer than a milk jug, but it would still not last as long as sealed bottles. I would not want to try a milk jug because I wouldn't want to have to throw out something I worked so long for, just because I wanted to save time at bottling.
That being said, try it out and let us know how it goes. I could be completely wrong. That is the great thing about this hobby. Trying new things that may be the "wrong way to do it" and seeing what happens.
I think I will try several methods: a milk jug, perrier screw top pint sized glass water bottles, and sealed fruit jars
BloodSweatandBeers
Active Member
Thanks Revvy and everyone else who has added to this great thread. The dip-tube was the biggest "why didn't I think of that" in here. I just made mine out of a copper elbow from the hardware store and I've been able to get all but a little more than 2oz out of my bucket. Thanks for this simple but effective idea.
Here is a photo of the tube
https://picasaweb.google.com/104753428486499887423/PickUpTube#5577907621239710546
Here is a photo of the tube
https://picasaweb.google.com/104753428486499887423/PickUpTube#5577907621239710546
I use the same & works great. It is a much cleaner design than the stopper, it's cheap & I only leave 6 oz in the bottom.
Here is my setup -
I move the Vinator in front of the stove with the caps in it & work right to left (I'm a lefty too), cap & put into cases for storage. I also use the Colonna Capper now, which is great.
Zokfend
Well-Known Member
this is a fantastic thread! i'm a first time brewer, and i bottled my irish red 9 days ago. they're sitting in large plastic bins (with lids) in my bedroom. i'm controlling temptation of cracking one open; i've committed myself to waiting 3 weeks at room temp, and then refrigerating it for minimum 2 weeks for clarity. i'm also going to stash a couple away for a few months to see how it differs. sad thing is i haven't started on my next batch yet 
anyhow, i stored my sanitized bottles in the dish washer, and i filled my bottles over it too. i was really surprised at how tidy the process was. i literally had NOTHING to clean up besides turning on the dish washer to take care of what little bit spilled in it. See image below:
the one thing i would comment on was how so many people caution about stirring very gently after priming to ensure the beer doesn't aerate. i took that to the next level and stirred at a snail's rate for probably 5 minutes. problem is that the first 5 or 6 bottles i filled had so much pressure behind it (from a full bottling bucket) that those bottles got aerated beer! personally i think they will be fine - at worst they'll be a little flatter than the rest. next time i'll turn the valve open half-way to reduce pressure if aerated beer is suspect this first go-around. . . . . live and learn.
anyhow, i stored my sanitized bottles in the dish washer, and i filled my bottles over it too. i was really surprised at how tidy the process was. i literally had NOTHING to clean up besides turning on the dish washer to take care of what little bit spilled in it. See image below:
the one thing i would comment on was how so many people caution about stirring very gently after priming to ensure the beer doesn't aerate. i took that to the next level and stirred at a snail's rate for probably 5 minutes. problem is that the first 5 or 6 bottles i filled had so much pressure behind it (from a full bottling bucket) that those bottles got aerated beer! personally i think they will be fine - at worst they'll be a little flatter than the rest. next time i'll turn the valve open half-way to reduce pressure if aerated beer is suspect this first go-around. . . . . live and learn.
commonsenseman
Well-Known Member
Great set-ups & thanks for the advice!
jocosa
New Member
Been brewing for 9 years and there is some great info in this thread! Like many, I keg on occasion, but tend to bottle more so I can sample the beer as it ages and give as gifts - the bottle hang-tag is great idea, can't wait to use it.
And a dip-tube, it's my next project. I should have all the stuff needed, including a broken raking cane, thanks to the guys who tested and perfected the ways to bend the plastic. Not having to tip the bottling bucket is going to help immensely!
And a dip-tube, it's my next project. I should have all the stuff needed, including a broken raking cane, thanks to the guys who tested and perfected the ways to bend the plastic. Not having to tip the bottling bucket is going to help immensely!
MTB
Well-Known Member
I made a dip-tube and I have no idea why it isn't working...especially for something so simple. I bought a black rubber stopper from Home Depot, drilled a hole through it, inserted about 6 inches of tubing through it, and it isn't working? I attached my wand to the spigot so that the inlet and outlet levels weren't the same.
What in the world am I missing here? I'm testing it with water....maybe beer has some kind of special powers to make this work?
What in the world am I missing here? I'm testing it with water....maybe beer has some kind of special powers to make this work?
OP
OP
I made a dip-tube and I have no idea why it isn't working...especially for something so simple. I bought a black rubber stopper from Home Depot, drilled a hole through it, inserted about 6 inches of tubing through it, and it isn't working? I attached my wand to the spigot so that the inlet and outlet levels weren't the same.
What in the world am I missing here? I'm testing it with water....maybe beer has some kind of special powers to make this work?
I don't know....is it working without the Wand? Is your spigot opened? You might have to jiggle and play around with it a bit. There's no magic answer here. Could a hunk of rubber from drilling the stopped got into the tubing?
MTB
Well-Known Member
No, it isn't working without the wand. The spigot is open and there is nothing in the tubing to block the flow. However, the spigot works when I remove the dip-tube rig
TheSeether
Well-Known Member
Is there enough space between the dip tube and the bottom to actually allow flow?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
MTB said:I made a dip-tube and I have no idea why it isn't working...especially for something so simple. I bought a black rubber stopper from Home Depot, drilled a hole through it, inserted about 6 inches of tubing through it, and it isn't working? I attached my wand to the spigot so that the inlet and outlet levels weren't the same.
What in the world am I missing here? I'm testing it with water....maybe beer has some kind of special powers to make this work?
You need airflow in order to have liquid flowing. Did you open the top of your bucket?
MTB
Well-Known Member
Yes, I tried moving it up and down.
Yes, the top of the bucket is open.
AugustDerleth
Well-Known Member
I had a similar problem. When you are testing the flow, how much water is in the bucket? What was happening with mine was basically that when there was a lot of water in the bucket the flow would work, but once it got down to where the dip tube would actually be doing work (aka the water level was below the actual spigot level) it would stop working. I asked and never received an answer as to why this may be, and I tried many MANY different things. What I would suggest doing is going to Lowe's and getting a 3/4" pvc elbow joint and screwing that onto the inside of your spigot. I did that and it began to flow properly.
The only problem is that I placed the spigot before getting the elbow, so I still have to tilt the bucket a bit, and if you don't do that while bottling and you start pulling air (aka the beer level is below the elbows end) and you try to tilt and restart, it will not happen, I'm assuming due to a lack of pressure.
Idk if this is confusing, I just brewed so I've been drinking double bock for hours.
Point is: Buy a .39c 3/4" pvc elbow. Good luck!
TheSeether
Well-Known Member
I use a pvc elbow as well and I can't imagine anything working better. Disassembly and cleaning are a snap. I did have to cut the elbow to match the height required by the pre-drilled hole in my bucket. It works so well that there is literally no moving liquid left once done, just whatever trub siphoned over. It was easiest to cut it to exact fit and make the cut at a slight angle so that the longer edge actually sits on the bottom and the shorter edge is where the liquid can enter. I can just get a fingernail under the edge where liquid enters. The pvc elbow provides the same ID as the spigot fitting so flow rate is consistent meaning no aeration occurs moving off the bottom of the bucket and into the wand. I don't see the advantage a stopper and puny tube have over the pvc elbow but then, I haven't tried that method either.
MTB
Well-Known Member
Bought one today and it works like a charm!
TheSeether
Well-Known Member
Depends, how long is a string?
Seriously, take your spigot with you the location you are going to get the elbow and check for fit before purchasing. 3/4" was the correct fit for my spigot but we very well may have different spigots.
AugustDerleth
Well-Known Member
If you got your spigot from LHBS, the answer is yes, 99% of the time.
Zokfend
Well-Known Member
do the last couple bottles you fill from the bottling bucket taste a little differently than all the bottles filled prior? i've drank over half my batch now, and i've enjoyed every one of them, . . . but last night i had one that tasted more bitter, seemed a little thicker, and i swear just a little stronger. smell was fine, just a little 'different'. it's hard to describe.
i don't pour that thin layer of trub into my glass, and i didn't notice anything else (like a bug or booger) come pouring into my glass either. so i don't know whether to consider it "bottom of the barrel" . . . or whether i just didn't clean/sanitize that one bottle good enough. i've never had an infected beer before, so i wouldn't know what to look for (obviously it didn't taste like piss or anything).
i don't pour that thin layer of trub into my glass, and i didn't notice anything else (like a bug or booger) come pouring into my glass either. so i don't know whether to consider it "bottom of the barrel" . . . or whether i just didn't clean/sanitize that one bottle good enough. i've never had an infected beer before, so i wouldn't know what to look for (obviously it didn't taste like piss or anything).
OP
OP
How do you know they were the last bottles from the bucket? By the time I've capped them, moved them to my milks crates and put them in the closet I don't know which is the first crate and which is the second, which is the first bottle filled, or the last, which is the front of a crate or the back.
Your beers are continuously conditioning during the time they are in the bottles, so USUALLY the last beers you get to are the better tasting of the batch, unless you have a late onset infection, or oxydation, and the flaws begin developing.
But normally we notice how much better the later beers taste.
Zokfend
Well-Known Member
that's just it . . . i don't know. but judging from your post, there should be no difference in taste or smell if you were to do a side-by-side comparison between the very first bottle i filled versus the very last bottle i filled. so i can atleast scratch the "bottom of the barrel" theory, which i guess would rule out any theories of coagulation happening . . . i did stir pretty thoroughly.
i'll just chalk it up to a late infection or something. it was just that one bottle that i encountered so far.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I always mark my last two or three bottles with an X, XX, and XXX because of the amount of yeast that ends up being in them, 3-10 times as much as normal. This doesn't make the beer taste any different, but it definitely conditions differently.
TheSeether
Well-Known Member
Sometimes the last bottle or 2 gets more yeast/trub from the bottom of the bottling bucket.
MaltMonster
Well-Known Member
My setup is very similar to Revvy's: I put my fermenting bucket on the kitchen counter and then place my bottling bucket on top of it. This gives me plently of height so that I can stand while bottling. I also slide the buckets right up to the edge of the sink and align the spigot over the sink with my bottling wand attached to my spigot with a short piece of tubing, thus allowing me to fill bottles over the sink. It is a lot more comfortable than filling bottles on the floor and it makes for very easy clean-up.
The only real difference from Revvy's description is that I put the buckets on the kitchen counter so that I can bottle over my sink.
The only real difference from Revvy's description is that I put the buckets on the kitchen counter so that I can bottle over my sink.
camiller
Well-Known Member
I put the bottling bucket on the counter over the dishwasher with the dishwasher door open, I sit in a chair and fill then hand off full bottles to the wife who caps.
KilhavenBrew
Well-Known Member
I do find this post helpful. I wonder how many people sanitize and leave the sulfite solution or whatever in the bottle and then put beer in the bottle with the sanitizer. That is gross. I did not know what the vinator was, but when I you tubed it, it came up where you squirt solution in there and then beer in it without rinsing the bottle with water to clean out the sanitizer.
agodfrey11
Well-Known Member
With no rinse solutions like iodophor or starsan you can put the beer in the bottle after rinsing without worry. I leave the bottles to drain in the dish washer rack before I fill them and have never had a problem.
OP
OP
Very few BEER brewers use sulfite solution as a sanitizer.....Especially not with so many great no rinse wet contact sanitizers like Iodophor, Starsan, and even the onestep that comes with many starter kits. Those don't need rinsing, and don't affect the flavor of the beer, when at the proper dillution. And in fact one of them, starsan actually breaks down into compounds that act as yeast food, and actually help both fermentation and carbonation.
Rinsing out sanitizer actaully could INCREASE the risk of infection, so that's why we recommend no rinse sanitizers.
meisterbrewer
Member
Lot's of great advice on here. I suppose I need to wait 3 full weeks to get more consistence from bottle to bottle. My only question is, does anybody notice a difference in head from what you use to prime with? I've used pre-packaged "heading" powder and I almost always brew with carapils, but I got an INSANE amount of head one brew, and the only thing I did different on that batch was use brown sugar to prime. It could have been something else, I haven't used brown sugar again (yet). I've never heard anyone mention that brown sugar had that effect, what are your experiences?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
you over carbonated. You need to go by weight and not volume for sugars because they have different densities. I've used brown sugar with normal results, along with honey.
meisterbrewer
Member
Well, If all that great head on my brew is over-carbonation, I'll stick with it. I doubt if over-carbonation was the cause, I'm told using more than 4 1/2 ounces of sugar is just pointless, so if using more gave more head it would be a part of someones advice, somewhere.
:rockin:
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
well the actual head is comprised of proteins and CO2. An over-carbonated beer doesn't necessarily mean big head and vice versa. Head and foam stability have more to do with the proteins. If it is over carbonated, the carbonation should escape fast, leaving the beer and going into the head space. If you have a lot of proteins, they will capture the CO2 and not let it escape, resulting in a foam that lasts longer. Using carapils or a little wheat accomplished this task. I also find that finer CO2 from kegging is easier to trap, stays in the foam, and makes for a more stable head.
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