2011 Cider notes - Victory from the jaws of Defeat

Well the second annual apple pressing party has come and gone. This time we had about 100 people. I ran one bushel through the grinder and the motor died. Could not be reset or restarted. ( See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/homemade-grinder-press-193453/ and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/homemade-apple-grinder-188613/ and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/2010-cider-notes-204921/ for descriptions of the grinder/press and 2010 cider notes). Ran off and bought a 1 hp garbage disposal from Lowe's and it kept overheating and needed 15 minutes to reset. Very frustrating.

One of the guys helping is a carpenter/contractor and suggested shortening the extension cord we were using for the garbage disposal. This made all the difference. Once we did that, it took about 4 hours to grind 16 bushels of apples and press them. I need to work on the press however. I think I'm only getting about 2 gallons/ bushel. Of course, it's hard to know with everybody taking cups and pitchers of cider right off the press. We had a great time. Tons of good food, lots of kids running around, it was great. Many thanks to the legions of apple cutters.

I took about 30 gallons of cider (O.G. 1.055, last year was only 1.043) and sulfited overnight in an HDPE barrel in the garage. My supplier told me he had picked and packed the apples several weeks ago. I don't know if the increased S.G. is from the aging of the apples, or the vaguaries of the growing season this year. This year's mix was Grimes Golden, Golden Russet, Jonathan, and Northern Spy. pH was 3.0 - 3.2. I deliberately under pitched the yeast tonght, only 2 packs Lalvin EC 1118, hydrated and pitched. I want a long slow fermentation. I hope the weather cools and it takes several months to complete fermentation. I may try a case or two with methode champenoise The rest will be some combination of sweet, dry and cherry cider. I'm drinking a dry carbonated cider from last year right now and the mouthfeel and flavors have really developed over the year. Wish I had more left!!

hroth521 said:

Well the second annual apple pressing party has come and gone. This time we had about 100 people. I ran one bushel through the grinder and the motor died. Could not be reset or restarted. ( See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/homemade-grinder-press-193453/ and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/homemade-apple-grinder-188613/ and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/2010-cider-notes-204921/ for descriptions of the grinder/press and 2010 cider notes). Ran off and bought a 1 hp garbage disposal from Lowe's and it kept overheating and needed 15 minutes to reset. Very frustrating.

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Somewhere, i remember seeing how to modify a garbage disposal so it would be air cooled with an air compressor. it involved installing a hose nipple into the base of the disposal, and connecting an air hose to the compressor and the garbage disposal. I'll see if i can find it again.

Great story and best of luck on a great cider coming out from this. It sounded like a blast.

hroth521,

Before trying to remove yeast with the "methode champenoise" you might try keeving a batch.

I'll be buying ten gallons of fresh, unpasturized juice in about two weeks to begin my first go at it. You may already be familiar with the Cider Workshop Google Group :

http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en

http://www.cider.org.uk/keeving.html

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/pm...-available-keeving-french-style-cider-275380/

Checked the S.G. today, 5 days into fermentation, it's 1.054, very slight foam layer on top of the cider. Color has changed from dark brown to bright yellow. Temperature in the garage is 42 deg F. I'm very excited. This is exactly what I hoped for. I did top off the barrel with 3 gallons of Whole Foods organic juice because there seemed to be a lot of head space.

The taste is still (obviously) very sweet but there is a very slight tang at the edge of my tongue consistent with very early fermentation. No off flavors. There is no activity in the bubble chamber but I'm not so sure the barrel is airtight. Will probably check S.G. every couple of weeks. Plan to rack into carboys once complete - hopefully in the spring.

Joe_in_CT said:

hroth521,
You may already be familiar with the Cider Workshop Google Group :

Cider Workshop | Google Groups

Keeving - What's That?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/pm...-available-keeving-french-style-cider-275380/

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The cider workshop Google Group is a HUGE source of very very useful information. Also, I receive the Cider Digest out of Colorado: Talisman Farm cider info which is also very useful. I think I'll go another couple of seasons before trying to "keeve". I've had good luck fermenting to dry, back-sweetening, then stovetop pasteurizing per papper's post. I don't know that I can get nutrient deficient apples, and this is my first time trying to ferment cold... we'll see.

UpstateMike said:

Somewhere, i remember seeing how to modify a garbage disposal so it would be air cooled with an air compressor. it involved installing a hose nipple into the base of the disposal, and connecting an air hose to the compressor and the garbage disposal. I'll see if i can find it again.

Click to expand...

=

I was worried we would have to take the housing off and try something but just shortening the cord made an amazing difference. Physics 101: V = I/R. The longer distance made more resistance, so the voltage seen by the motor dropped. This caused it to draw more current and heated the motor up so it had to reset. Once we shortened the cord, no problems.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

Great story and best of luck on a great cider coming out from this. It sounded like a blast.

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Thanks for the good wishes. This is a giant party that goes all day. It's also like something out of a Norman Rockwell painting. Out in the country on a farm, kids everywhere, some adults helping, others watching the kids, others just drinking last year's cider and hanging out and eating the food that everybody brought. Everyone wanders over to the press and grabs a cup of cider every now and then. Until last year some of these people had never tasted cider that wasn't made from concentrate. These are the really good people I work with and the kids were so looking forward to this after last year. We lucked out on the weather too.

hroth521 said:

Checked the S.G. today, 5 days into fermentation, it's 1.054, very slight foam layer on top of the cider. Color has changed from dark brown to bright yellow. Temperature in the garage is 42 deg ...
There is no activity in the bubble chamber but I'm not so sure the barrel is airtight. Will probably check S.G. every couple of weeks. Plan to rack into carboys once complete - hopefully in the spring.

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First bubbles @ 10 days. Temp up to 58 F but cold spell coming. Will check SG when bubbles stop. Kids took most of the last of last year's cider back to school. It's so good now I can't blame them. Need to brew something so I don't touch the cider til next year.

Cider with mild "rhino fart" sulfur smells. No activity in the fermentation lock. Opened the barrel to find "krausen" debris along the sides at the top. Must have settled to the bottom because none was visible on the cider. Cider is pale yellow now, starting to clear although still quite cloudy. Taste is clean, no sulfur, slight apple, tart. There is some tannin evident. I think this will be very good but I'm a glass half full kind of guy anyway. I topped it off with another gallon of organic juice. Total head space in the 30 gallon barrel is now only an inch or so. S.G. was 1.004 temp corrected (50 deg F) to 1.0034. I'm hoping the fresh juice I added will create a nice layer of CO2 for the winter. Temp is supposed to drop tonight into the 30's. Plan to leave it alone until February. If it's not frozen, I might try to recheck SG and taste then. Ideally, I'd like to hold off bottling until spring and bottle condition until the fall. Still thinking about 5 gallons method champenoise. We'll see.

S.G. today 0.999. Fairly clear - probably due to "cold crashing" - it's 40deg F in the garage but has been as low as 30. I will not have the time to rack this for another month or so- thinking about floating a thin layer of olive oil on top of the 30 gallons to protect from O2. There is currently only about 1 inch head space so I'm not sure that's necessary.

The taste is quite good for this young. More apple flavor than I recall from previous batches. It is very tart - quite young after all. Not much tannin. Might have to adjust the apple mix next year and/or add tannin before bottling. I might consider initiating MLF for part of the batch just for the experience. A lot of this is going to get backsweetened and pasteurized though. Seriously considering methode champenoise for 5 gallons as well. We'll see.

The tartness is beginning to mellow. Racked 5 gallons off. Sorbate and Sulfite to stabilize then added 1 1/2 lb honey to back sweeten. Bottled and will leave it alone for a couple of months to let the raw honey flavor integrate. Plan to remove all into carboys this week. It's very good.

Unless you're pasteurizing your cider that honey is going to cause more secondary fermentation than back sweetening. I could have missed that in the thread though.

If you're not pasteurizing before sweetening you could always use unfermentables like xylitol.

Tantalus said:

Unless you're pasteurizing your cider that honey is going to cause more secondary fermentation than back sweetening. I could have missed that in the thread though.

If you're not pasteurizing before sweetening you could always use unfermentables like xylitol.

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It would if I didn't add the sulfiite and sorbate. I've done this w/cider, mead, fermented lemonade for years. It's how I back sweeten. Resulting cider is still, however. If I want carved cider then I'll sweeten, wait, and pasteurize.

hroth521 said:

It would if I didn't add the sulfiite and sorbate. I've done this w/cider, mead, fermented lemonade for years. It's how I back sweeten. Resulting cider is still, however. If I want carved cider then I'll sweeten, wait, and pasteurize.

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*carbed*. Damn auto-correct

Racked 5 gallons onto frozen sour cherries. Plan to sweeten, carb and pasteurize that. Racked another 5 gallons into a carboy for cider champagne. Started a Lalvin 71B (Narbonne) starter for in bottle fermentation. Need to get the rest out of the barrel before it oxidizes. The rest (15 gallons) I'll probably sweeten, carb and pasteurize over the next week or so. It's very, very tart still. I'm sipping a raspberry cyser from 2010 that is very good but still very tart. Should probably have sweetened it and pasteurized it.

Racked the rest of the cider before it got too hot in the garage. Ended up with 30 gallons total. The last 5 gallon carboy was pretty ugly though. It's been several days now and there are probably 3 gallons of cider and 2 gallons of trub. The Cherry/cider woke the yeast up and started to ferment so I'll wait til it stops before trying to sweeten, carb, and pasteurize. The yeast starter never took off but that's ok because even the first 5 gallons need to settle down and clear for a while before I try bottle re-fermenting.

Racked the cleared 5 gallons of cider onto 10 ounces sugar dissolved in 1 1/2 cup boiled water. Pitched some rehydrated 71B-1122 yeast that had been acclimatized to 1 1/2 cups cider. I used this yeast because of its propensity to metabolize malic acid (this year's cider is soooo tart) and because it is a low sulfide producer. Bottled in Champagne bottles. Laid them on their sides and will forget about them for about a year. In January I'll start turning them onto their heads in order to move the sediment into the neck. Then in February, I'll pop the tops, top off with some sugar syrup and recap. They should be good to drink sometime in the spring - summer 2013.

Also racked the cider off the cherries. It's very tart but great pink/red color and cherry/apple cider flavor. I'll let it settle for a month, sweeten, carb and pasteurize.

The ugly carboy has settled to the point where there is probably 3 gallons cider and 2 gallons trub. I need to get a three gallon carboy and rack it off soon.

The cider I've tasted is very very tart and closed but when I put a teaspoon of sugar in 12 ounces it's delicious, the apple cidery flavors really blossom without a cloying sweetness. I think this translates to about 8 ounces of sugar for 5 gallons. Might try a batch with this little bit of sugar and pasteurize it. I'm probably the only one who will drink it since everybody else likes it sweeter, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Here are pics of the cherry cider and plain cider. They've cleared nicely. I'll leave them alone until the late summer before bottling. I lost 2 champagne bottles because the caps didn't seal well. Still have 20 left.

Waiting for my corks to arrive . I'm going to bottle condition/backsweeten the cherry apple cider in belgian beer bottles with corks.

Soaking 2 oz toasted french oak chips in bourbon to cover. Plan to soak for 2 weeks, then add to 5 gallons cider. Taste at 1 week and every other day until adequately oaked. I'm looking for a mild oakey/vanilla touch. Then, I'll adjust the bourbon flavor with bourbon. Backsweeten as needed (it's very tart), pasteurize and enjoy.

The honey backsweetened still cider is a huge success. The sorbate flavor has worn off. I brought some to the LHBS where they also make cider and it was very well received. ("Please give us your recipe! This is amazing!")

The champagne bottles are quietly doing their thing. I may just pop the tops and sweeten at 6 months rather than doing the whole freeze the neck, disgorge, tirage, etc. We'll see.

Starting to plan for next season. I need to revise the press. I also want to press 7 gallons after macerating the pomace for 24 hours and try to keeve it. I need to order the PME and cacl2.

I loves me cider.

Oh, I racked the three gallons of cider from the trub and will let it clear while I figure out what I want to do with it. Probably sorbate/sulfite and backsweeten with honey since that is so good this year.

Took 5 gallons of cider and racked it onto 2 oz toasted French Oak chips that had been soaked in 4 oz bourbon for a week. I poured 2 oz of the oaked bourbon into the cider as well. Kept the other 2 oz for later. Figured I could always add more but impossible to remove it if there's too much. Anyway, this is just delicious. Subtle now but I'll check it again in a week. Somehow the vanilla from the bourbon/oak really brings out the apple in the cider. Could also be that the cider is finally waking up, it's 5 months since pressing. In any case, I'll probably add more bourbon before bottling. Probably backsweeten to 1.008 or so as well. The oak/vanilla already gives a slightly sweet sensation. I might even bottle this in wine bottles and try to age some of it for a couple of years. This really has potential.

Today I also sweetened the cherry apple cider to 1.014 (1 1/2 lb sugar in 2 cups water, boiled and cooled) and bottled. Will check in a week and every other day thereafter until carbed enough then stove-top pasteurize. Still have 8 gallons or so in carboys. Probably keep it simple and backsweeten with honey, carb and pasteurize.

6 days on the oak chips is plenty of time. Tastes spicy, vanilla, oakey. Racked it off the chips and added 3 more ounces bourbon - total of 5 ounces for 5 gallons. tasted with no sugar and just a little sugar (probably 1.006 - 1.008) I could drink it with no sugar but I think slightly sweet will be more popular. It is very very good. Very tart cider well balanced with the oak and slight sweet. Sipping cider. I'm going to sorbate/sulfite tonight and backsweeten to taste next week - probably to 1.006 or so. Then bottle in wine bottles with corks. This is amazing stuff.

Also pasteurized the cherry apple cider. 160 deg for 20 minutes. No bottle bombs.

The bourbon oak cider is delicious. My daughter says it is a sipping cider. There is the barest hint of a burn from the bourbon (only 5 oz in 5 gallons) but really very nice.

My daughter says the honey sweetened still cider is an everyday, delicious cider. The Cherry apple cider (sweetened, carbed, pasteurized) is more like wine for her but also very tasty.

Also, I couldn't resist - I opened one of the champagne bottles. Oh. My. Lovely mousse, absolutely delicious cider. I wonder if it has completely fermented yet (only 2 1/2 months) because I think I taste a tiny bit of residual sugar. Nonetheless, it is delicious. Really very good cider. I think the 71-B yeast really munched on the malic acid and turned it into well balanced goodness. Good enough that I think I'll forget about disgorgement and tirage and just serve it up. Also, I think I'll bottle the remaining 5 gallon carboy dry with bottle conditioning and 71-B in belgian bottles and corks. If I can keep my hands off of it, I'll let it age for a year. We'll see.

Inspired by this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-hard-cider-292770/ ,
I mixed 2 cups brown sugar with 2 cups water, 1 tsp ground cinnamon, 1/2 tsp nutmeg, 1/2 tsp vanilla extract and boiled it until it was dark and syrupy, then let it cool.

I added it to the 3 gallons of cider still in the carboy from last fall. Brought the S.G. up only to about 1.011. Bottled and filled a plastic soda bottle about 1/2 way with some. The plastic soda bottle was tense at 72 hours so I pasteurized.

Opened a chilled bottle tonight and it tastes like liquid apple pie, a novelty but really delicious. SWMBO likes it so I'll make more this year, of course.