capacitor to motor or mill - wiring help

I'm not real savy with wireing a capacitor. I have a small 2 amp, 170 RPM gear motor for my mill. It came with a capacitor. I'd like to have 2 switches, one for on/off, and the other for for/rev. I know i run the ground and the neutral directly to the motor. The black (hot) is run directly to one of the 2 remaining wires on the motor and the other needs to be connected via the capacitor? Is this correct?

How about if i want ot do the switch method that i talked about? Do i Hook up both wires from the capacitor to both leads on the motor wiht a 3-way switch that moves power from the hot to either of the wires on the capacitor.

All of this really depends on the motor you are using. Ok... What motor? Do you have a link to it?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=5-1098

I have this motor and wired it. I can send you my sketch tomorrow.

You can use an ON-OFF-ON switch to eliminate the need for two switches.

thanks,

Hey kegtoe, glad to see you're moving forward with motorizing your mill. I set up the same motor for CW rotation and followed the same wiring diagram you have. I put my switch on neutral between the motor and the power cord. I ran the blue wire to one of the capacitor pins. It shows up red in the photo because I used a red wire to extend the blue motor wire to the capacitor. I used 12 - 10 gauge AMP female disconnects to connect to the capacitor plug. Then I connected the black wire from the motor to the opposite capacitor pin set with the same kind of connector. Finally I took the black wire from the power cord and connected it to the same pin set on the capacitor that the black wire from the motor is attached to. I'm not great with wiring diagrams, but this fired up on my first shot.


I also found this wiring diagram that Henrythe9th posted in another thread if you want to set up CW and CCW.

Thanks mister, i gues i'm not sure on how/what a capacitor does and works. If i want to have the for/rev that i'm looking for do i run the hot to each set on the capacitor, then the lead to each of the motor leads. ORRRRR, do i run two hots to one set and two leads to the oter set?

Does this look correct? The first switch would be an on/of the second being forward, reverse. I want the 2 switches, not a on(for)/off/on(rev)

A capacitor stores a charge that helps get the motor running. I'm sure there's a better description out there. For both CW and CCW it looks like you wire up the capacitor where both blue and black wires from the motor terminate on opposite pins of the capacitor, then you run separate blue and black from the remaining pins to your toggle switch. Blue for CCW position and black for CW position. Hot (black) from your power cord should terminate with the toggle switch. Neutral (white) from the motor will simply connect to neutral from your power cord. All the toggle switch does is switch what starter winding leads are used which as I understand it, determines which direction the motor turns. Keep in mind, I'm no electrician.

kegtoe said:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=5-1098

Click to expand...

I made up a diagram for you using 2 switches - 1 for motor direction and the other On/Off:



I also made a diagram using a single switch - It is a "Center Off" switch:



BTW: I left the Surplus Center info in place so that others can identify the motor that the diagram was drawn for.

I hope this helps you.

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I have the exact same motor and am wanting to wire it just like kegtoe, but with an added twist....I also have a start capacitor. I have build my table and wired it up according to the diagram below. The mill is turning clockwise but I have a few probems:

(1) when I try to engage the start capacitor via a momentary switch (just a spst switch) the motor reverses and goes very slow.

(2) when I flip the frwd/reverse switch nothing happens. It continues (or starts) clockwise.

Any idea what I may have screwed up? Should I just take out the start capacitor? (Kegtoe, has lack of torque been a problem with your motor?)

Thanks in advance!

freudhawk said:

...
(1) when I try to engage the start capacitor via a momentary switch (just a spst switch) the motor reverses and goes very slow.

(2) when I flip the frwd/reverse switch nothing happens. It continues (or starts) clockwise.

Any idea what I may have screwed up? Should I just take out the start capacitor? (Kegtoe, has lack of torque been a problem with your motor?)
...

Click to expand...

Some info for you. That motor was originally designed for CCW rotation. It will have lower torque if run with CW rotation. The motor is not designed for use with a start capacitor. Do not do that. If torque is a problem for you in running the mill, flip the rollers in the mill so that it will use the appropriate rotation when milling your grain. When using reverse, the motor must come to a complete stop before attempting to reverse it. Use the reverse rotation mode as a safety or to help when the mill jams up on you.

HTH.

i still havent got to wire mine up but still looking for help with the capacitor. How do i wire it in? Do i split the power cord to each side of the capacitor, and then come off each side of the capacitor to a different lead.
OR
Do i direct wire the the motor, and splice off to the capacitor.

P-J said:

Some info for you. That motor was originally designed for CCW rotation. It will have lower torque if run with CW rotation. The motor is not designed for use with a start capacitor. Do not do that. If torque is a problem for you in running the mill, flip the rollers in the mill so that it will use the appropriate rotation when milling your grain. When using reverse, the motor must come to a complete stop before attempting to reverse it. Use the reverse rotation mode as a safety or to help when the mill jams up on you.

HTH.

Click to expand...

Well, before I read this I was able to fix my wiring problem. I simply had two wires switched. So, it now works as I intended it to, starter capacitor and all. However, it sounds like I shouldn't use a start capacitor, huh? Also, it is a bummer about more torque going counterclockwise, because I can't flip my mill due to the fact a crappy bolt included with the mill sheared off inside the mill and I can't attach it using that side anymore, locking me into CW rotation. Granted, I have yet to crush any grain with this setup (used drill before) so I don't know that torque will even be a problem, just trying to be prepared.

Sounds like you did good. Now some info for you as you might be A-Ok as is. (depending on how you are viewing your motor setup).

Direction of rotation is normally determined by viewing it from the wire connection end. So this image shows CCW rotation

P-J said:

The motor is not designed for use with a start capacitor.

HTH.

Click to expand...

I would disagree that the motor was not designed for start capacitor. When I bought mine it the website said it said it must have and ships with start capacitor.

P-J said:

Sounds like you did good. Now some info for you as you might be A-Ok as is. (depending on how you are viewing your motor setup).

Direction of rotation is normally determined by viewing it from the wire connection end. So this image shows CCW rotation

Click to expand...

OH! Hmm, I don't know how it is rotating then. Thanks for the info...and the cool drawing! So, you think I'm okay leaving the start capacitor in place and using when I start under a load?

rockytoptim said:

I would disagree that the motor was not designed for start capacitor. When I bought mine it the website said it said it must have and ships with start capacitor.

Click to expand...

The motor ships with a "run" capacitor. A "start" capacitor is a different beast.

I've been using the same exact motor in a clockwise rotation for my Barley Crusher without any issues. It munches right through it. Got the Barley Crusher set to factory defaults and getting 80% efficiency. It does seem louder in the clockwise rotation than the ccw rotation. Weird.

freudhawk said:

OH! Hmm, I don't know how it is rotating then. Thanks for the info...and the cool drawing! So, you think I'm okay leaving the start capacitor in place and using when I start under a load?

Click to expand...

It certainly won't hurt anything as you would only attempt to use it if the motor doesn't start.

Why did you guys choose 177rpm? what about the 105RPM? Any ideas on what is "The Best" Does it matter? Is it better to go with a pulley system that allows you to change the speeds by adding different wheels? Just got my new mill trying to figure out best way to get rid of hand crank.

bbognerks said:

I've been using the same exact motor in a clockwise rotation for my Barley Crusher without any issues. It munches right through it. Got the Barley Crusher set to factory defaults and getting 80% efficiency. It does seem louder in the clockwise rotation than the ccw rotation. Weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWa4Sv4QnM

Click to expand...

Mine is def. louder going one direction. Not sure which. Munches through the grain on my MM mill though.
Jeff

I chose 177 rpm as its faster than the 105 rpm. I have a Barely Crusher and I think they said to keep it under 300 rpm. You also need to look at the torque of the motor. I wouldn't go anything lower than 40 in-lbs. The 105 rpm ins 30 in-lbs.

tolip_ck1 said:

Why did you guys choose 177rpm? what about the 105RPM? Any ideas on what is "The Best" Does it matter? Is it better to go with a pulley system that allows you to change the speeds by adding different wheels? Just got my new mill trying to figure out best way to get rid of hand crank.

Click to expand...

The 105 RPM motor delivers less torque (30 in lbs)
The 177 RPM motor is 40 in lbs.

IMHO - a pulley/belt setup puts a side load on the mill bearings. I'd prefer avoiding that. Plus it's a lot more work building a mill setup as you should also place pulley and belt guards. It's a safety issue.

Yes, Barley Crusher specifically warns against using a belt/pulley system due to the side load on the bearings. Now, you could make an axle for the pulley to eliminate the load and then connect it to the roller rod via spider coupler. The spider coupler is the orange/black piece in my vid. A pulley system is more versatile as you can not only control the speed, but the torque as well.

Ok got it!

Thanx, direct drive it is, maybe something like I have running my pump. What ever speed you want

Holy 'stuff'.! TECO FM50? That is a WoW.! Talk about phase and power control.

Yea, but i am not smart enough to get the picture turned the correct way! @@

bbognerks said:

I've been using the same exact motor in a clockwise rotation for my Barley Crusher without any issues. It munches right through it. Got the Barley Crusher set to factory defaults and getting 80% efficiency. It does seem louder in the clockwise rotation than the ccw rotation. Weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWa4Sv4QnM

Click to expand...

Thanks for the video. That helped me out b/c I certainly noticed mine being louder in one direction as well. Also, KS Brewers shout out to you. Are you active in a brew club in Wichita?

No problem. Actually I plan on attending the Wichita Homebrewers Organization meeting tomorrow (2/26). Are you part of W.H.O.?

P-J said:

Holy 'stuff'.! TECO FM50? That is a WoW.! Talk about phase and power control.

Click to expand...

Did a little reading up....so you can input 115v 1-phase, and have 230v 3-phase coming out? And also adjust Hz? Seems like a rockin way to run some of the beastly stuff on Ebay that goes for so cheap just because it's 3-phase.

Like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/30Hp-Magnetek-E...aultDomain_0&hash=item45f8db5ebf#ht_500wt_922

bbognerks said:

No problem. Actually I plan on attending the Wichita Homebrewers Organization meeting tomorrow (2/26). Are you part of W.H.O.?

Click to expand...

No, I live in Salina and am the founder and president of the Salina Brewers Guild. (Sorry our webmaster is WAY behind on updates). We have about 10-15 members right now. Maybe we need to have a joint meeting/giant brew sometime.

Here's how I wired mine up (more build info & pics here):

sam said:

Here's how I wired mine up (more build info & pics here):

Click to expand...

Nice!

^ No reverse?

Cheers!