Better Bottle failure- Things learned.

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flyangler18

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I am starting this thread to draw attention to one potential drawback concerning the Better Bottle and relate an experience that I had. As we all know, the bottom of the Better Bottle flexes when you attempt to move when full.

From my earlier thread:

I had two BBs soaking with hot (110-120°) water and Oxyclean in preparation for a brewday this morning that got derailed anyway due to my wife coming down with a doozy of a stomach bug. But I digress.

As I was in the basement early this morning swapping out some laundry, I noticed that the floor around the BBs was quite wet. Upon closer inspection, I noticed that one of the BBs developed several splits(!) that were leaking pretty significantly. Doesn't look like impact damage, but that raises a point. Not sure how the splits would have developed, or if others have reported this kind of failure with their BBs.

I emailed the manufacturer to alert them of this failure and to solicit some advice in troubleshooting the cause:

I thought I would
share an experience with you regarding a 6 gallon BB that I've been using
for the past 6 months. I was treating the inside of the BB to a hot
water(110-120 °)/Oxyclean soak in preparation for a brewday and I noticed a
substantial leak. The bottom of the BB developed several splits; I've
always been careful with my equipment and never abused it in anyway, so I'm
curious to see if others have reported BB failures under normal use.

The reply is listed below (with bold as my emphasis).

Jason:

Every once in a blue moon a carboy develops a crack on the bottom. Nearly
all the time, it is because the user was rolling the carboy on its bottom
edge while it was full. The creates a tremendous amount of flexing in the
bottom panel.


We will help you out with a replacement. Give me your address and confirm
that the damaged carboy is a 6 gallon plain carboy. Also, would you do us a
favor and cut off a chunk of the bottom that shows the production date dial
and a cracked area. Mail it to my attention and the PO box shown below. Do
you recall if you rolled your carboy on its edge a lot?


Regards,

Walter

Prior to adopting use of a Venturi tube at the bottom of my siphon and an 02 oxygenation system, I would use the 'rock and roll' technique of aeration, tipping the carboy on its edge and using it as a pivot point- but haven't done so for a single batch in at least 3 months. As you see from the exchange above, doing this may result in carboy failure.
 
Glad you posted this...I think we all have done the tip on one side of the bottom and aerate on that pivot point.

I use an 02 wand to aerate now, but I just realized to sanitize I STILL rock the BB to slosh sanitizer around...though I use only a couple of gallons and not a full loaded carboy, but still if there's anough wobble it looks like it acan weaken it..

Thanks :mug:
 
Glad you posted this...I think we all have done the tip on one side of the bottom and aerate on that pivot point.

I use an 02 wand to aerate now, but I just realized to sanitize I STILL rock the BB to slosh sanitizer around...though I use only a couple of gallons and not a full loaded carboy, but still if there's anough wobble it looks like it acan weaken it..

Thanks :mug:

Yeah, it's important that this information be shared; I'm still a big proponent of the Better Bottle and their willingness to replace this carboy free of charge is just awesome.
 
Also, use a milk crate to carry. Relieves all the pressure of the fluid pushing down on the bottom.
 
I always have mine in a milk crate and tip it up on edge and shake for aeration. I do this with both my glass and BB. I was mainly concerned about the glass but knowing it is important with the BB is good to know.

Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Wish I would have e-mailed them. I had recycled 2 that has the exact same cracks .. Oh well. I like the BB but they do have some drawbacks for me. Seems like the customer service is good though! Props to them


Mike
 
What's a little blood with the sweat and tears you might put into making your beer!?

No seriously, glass is dangerous and ment to be handled safely. Better bottles are much safer, just don't scratch up the inside with a rough brush and you're good. I like my cornie fermentation, personally.

Happy brewing and be safe!
 
From the Better Bottle Web site:

Rocking a Better-Bottle carboy vigorously requires almost no effort, if a tennis ball is placed in the punt space under the carboy. To avoid wearing the bottom of the carboy, perform this operation on a smooth or soft surface. Do not rock Better-Bottle carboys without using a tennis ball and do not rock them over at such an angle as to repeatedly flex their bottom edges. Repeated flexing can eventually cause the PET to fatigue. Leave extra head space during initial mixing and aeration to maximize agitation.

They even have a picture.
ba41c45b-6052-4d4d-b9ca-1fd0581a42f1.jpg


Its the way I always use my BB.
 
Thanks for the OP. I definitely have been using the edge roll aeration for . . . oh crap. . . six months now. Even though I have four milk crates. I have been aerating and THEN putting in the milk crate for transport. oops.

The tennis ball post is also very helpful. When I read the OP I figured tennis balls would stress the pet as well.
 
Looks like it is time for a tennis ball, I was worried I would have to run out and get some sort of oxygen wand or sumpin.
 
X2 on the tennis ball. When I got my first BB I read the entire website and made special note of their tennis ball mention. That's how I rock mine now and always will.
 
I was at the LHBS today, and I was looking at the carboys. Since the price has gone up so much, I may make the switch to some better bottles very soon.
 
Thank god that happened with oxyclean not brew!

Thanks for the advice - I use the "rock and roll" method every brew - will have to change it up
 
I have had the same thing happen over the past two days with plastic water cooler carboys that I use for drinking water that I refill at the grocery store. I was washing them with hot water and oxyclean and had the same cracks and leaks develop. I don't think I rocked them in the sink but I guess it's possible. I've been scratching my head for the past two days wondering why they broke!
 
good to know. I was considering buying a better bottle and that's how I aerate my beer. I would have been pissed if I split a new bottle.
 
I too am thinking of buying some BB's which is what lead me to this thread. I don't see the high prices of glass carboys some are mentioning. A 6 gallon glass carboy is $24.00. A 6 gallon better bottle is $25.50 plus the taps and special Simple Flo Valve and Racking Adaptor etc. Don't get me wrong I think they are good pieces, just not cheaper than a glass carboy.
 
I too am thinking of buying some BB's which is what lead me to this thread. I don't see the high prices of glass carboys some are mentioning. A 6 gallon glass carboy is $24.00. A 6 gallon better bottle is $25.50 plus the taps and special Simple Flo Valve and Racking Adaptor etc. Don't get me wrong I think they are good pieces, just not cheaper than a glass carboy.

Depends on where you are pricing. There is a much talked about on here glas carboy shortage, since some manufacturers stopped making them and they have to be imported from, iirc, Italy, the average price for a carboy skyrocket (like so much else) this summer to around 50 bucks....while the BB didn't rise in prices...in fact the unadorned better bottles around be go for about 20.

Plus as you can see FLyangler got GREAT service for his BB failing..try getting that from a glass carboy manufacturer...

And there's the whole loosing blood and beer when a carboy fails...and there's plenty of horro stories about that.
 
Very interesting post. My wort is aerated before it makes it to the BB, so I don't use this method, but thanks for sharing. Once again, this place is a wealth of information.
 
I too am thinking of buying some BB's which is what lead me to this thread. I don't see the high prices of glass carboys some are mentioning. A 6 gallon glass carboy is $24.00. A 6 gallon better bottle is $25.50 plus the taps and special Simple Flo Valve and Racking Adaptor etc. Don't get me wrong I think they are good pieces, just not cheaper than a glass carboy.

You really can't include the very cool special addition of a spigot as an extra cost BB vs glass. It's not like that is already included in the price of glass. It is that it can't be added.

The other fittings are exactly the same. You either buy a BB stopper or a glass stopper. Same price. All my hoses, airlocks, etc are interchangeable between the two. So using the prices you quote $24 vs $25.50 I am still going with BB over glass. Primary reason? Weight. Secondary reason. Fragility.

(Of course, I have not seen glass at even twice that price in well over a year.)
 
You really can't include the very cool special addition of a spigot as an extra cost BB vs glass. It's not like that is already included in the price of glass. It is that it can't be added.

The other fittings are exactly the same. You either buy a BB stopper or a glass stopper. Same price. All my hoses, airlocks, etc are interchangeable between the two. So using the prices you quote $24 vs $25.50 I am still going with BB over glass. Primary reason? Weight. Secondary reason. Fragility.

(Of course, I have not seen glass at even twice that price in well over a year.)

Not trying to split hairs but here is the one I mentioned earlier -

Glass Carboy (6 Gallon) | MoreBeer

As i said before, don't get me wrong I think the BB's are WAY safer of course (thats a no brainer). I have three 6.5 gallon glass carboys and about 5 buckets. I read a lot of info on the BB site and really liked the way the racking adapters come apart for cleaning. Also the way you can turn them to get the pickup tube out of the trub at the bottom when you go to rack to a keg or bottle.

I think I will start a thread about the attachments that can be bought to see who likes what.

Thanks for your input.
 
In that case I should have been more specific. I have not seen one "delivered" for twice that price. MoreBeer is my primary online supplier but there is no way in heck I am paying for them to ship me 20 lbs of fragile glass across the country so I was mostly referring to LHBS prices.

To be honest, I thought that they refused to ship glass carboys more than 100 miles. I guess I was wrong.

As far as the optional items I have never looked at them. I should do that. I have 6 six gallon BBs with most going at all times so anything to make it easier would be nice.
 
How is the cleaning/scratching thing with these? Seems to me if they are built similar to a drinking water bottle, they would be harder to scratch then a regular bucket.
 
I can never understand why anyone would drop the coin for all those fancy BB add-ons; they're superfluous and expensive.

I get as much ease of use for far less cost with an auto-siphon, #10 rubber stopper and 3-piece airlock.

I'm in one of those areas where the price of 6 or 6.5 gallon glass carboys is resting around $45, so I use BBs. If I could get them cheap, I'd use glass. If you can get glass cheap, have at it. Just be careful and rest the carboy in a milkcrate.
 
I can never understand why anyone would drop the coin for all those fancy BB add-ons; they're superfluous and expensive.

I get as much ease of use for far less cost with an auto-siphon, #10 rubber stopper and 3-piece airlock.

I'm in one of those areas where the price of 6 or 6.5 gallon glass carboys is resting around $45, so I use BBs. If I could get them cheap, I'd use glass. If you can get glass cheap, have at it. Just be careful and rest the carboy in a milkcrate.

Thanks for your input. I have 3 but am a little more cautious about the safety factor. I have had them for a little over a year, 2 are new but one I got with a package deal from a brewer getting out. Just don't want to be writing one of those stories about hand surgery!

Good point on the extra cost. I too use a auto-siphon with my carboys and buckets.
 
Side question about the better bottle: Can you add your own spigot to the ported bottle? I don't really want to spend 30 bucks on a valve if I can add my own $3 one. Thanks ;x
 
I'm glad to have found this post! I have my first ever brew a' brewin' and a better bottle on the way. I don't have a milk crate, but that should be easy enough to come up with.
I ordered my stuff off the web, then today noticed that I need a tool to remove the spigot from the better bottle come cleaning time. The tool however, looks just like a piece of PVC. Better Bottle Spigot Installation Tool :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies Is that all it is? If so, what size & length? Or are there other ways to remove/reinstall the spigot?
 
I'm glad to have found this post! I have my first ever brew a' brewin' and a better bottle on the way. I don't have a milk crate, but that should be easy enough to come up with.
I ordered my stuff off the web, then today noticed that I need a tool to remove the spigot from the better bottle come cleaning time. The tool however, looks just like a piece of PVC. Better Bottle Spigot Installation Tool :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies Is that all it is? If so, what size & length? Or are there other ways to remove/reinstall the spigot?

I used a length of PVC. If you go to better bottle's web site, they mention that PVC pipe or threaded rod can be used instead. I don't recall the size they recommend, and I'm too lazy to look :).

-John
 
Heres the description from the website

Installation in 5 & 6 Gallon Carboys – Better-Bottle makes a plastic installation tube for installing Carboy Racking Adapters in 5 or 6 gallon Better-Bottle carboys (See images below). In a pinch, it is also possible to use a 50 cm (20") length of 1/4" diameter steel (plated or stainless) rod or running thread or a 44 cm (18") length of 3/8" inside diameter (clearance) rigid tubing, both of which can be purchased at most hardware stores.

Heres the link

http://www.better-bottle.com/products_master.html
 
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