Why not? You will be fusing down in the CP anyway right? If the price is right, may as well have the extra 10A available.
Almost eREADY
- Thread starter l3asturd
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Why not? You will be fusing down in the CP anyway right? If the price is right, may as well have the extra 10A available.
I like the room in that CP. You should build some shelves or maybe consider renting out some space. Grain storage?
dburgette
Well-Known Member
l3asturd said:
Which mechanical relays did you go with? 50a 220v? or 50a110v? or something else?
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, those are on the way. Of course I screwed up and got a couple wrong tags, so I might have to order a couple more.
dburgette said:
Went with 30A 240 DPDT relays with a 120V coil.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
By the way, I really didn't like how loose the PIDs were in the panel, so I tried to figure out how I could make them tighter. Called Auber and they suggested putting small wood screws through the holes in the corners of the plastic mount clips. Found some 1" long small diameter wood screws and carefully threaded them through the holes until they hit the panel door, them gave them a turn more. This REALLY helped, the PIDs don't move around anymore and I can align them and tighten them down permanently. Unfortunately I didn't read Kal's guide thoroughly enough to see that he suggested doing this.
Here's a crappy pic trying to show the screws:
Here's a crappy pic trying to show the screws:
dburgette
Well-Known Member
That always completes the look. Did you go with the same place as kal?
Thanks for the relay info.
Thanks for the relay info.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Ya I googled looking for a local place and that guy was the first one I found. He did a great job and I got them super cheap and shipped fast. Winning.
l3asturd said:
You must have a really skinny shovel...cheater
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
You must have a really skinny shovel...cheater
Ha I used a garden shovel and drank a homebrew for every foot I dug.
OK it costs $66 to rent a trencher at Home Depot and took about an hour. Luckily the ground was fairly soggy otherwise it would have been much harder. I dug about 6 feet of trench on the other side of the fence (to the panel) with a plain o' shovel. It reminded me that they make machines that do things for us.
l3asturd said:
Smart man. Save your back for lifting kegs of homebrew.
We actually do have a skinny shovel to get out rocks and stuff that falls back in. I would not want to dig a trench with it though.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
I've been pondering P-J's Estop wiring for awhile now. It's one of the last things to do in my panel. He shows 2 1kohm resistors in series. I don't know if it's because they're cheap or what. I was wondering why I don't just use a 2K 10W resistor instead. Something like this? Can anyone shed any light on why there are 2 resistors in series and a fuse? The other thing is that is the fuse is blown my Estop won't work?!
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l3asturd said:
That would be better IMO. A GFCI only needs 10-15 mA to trip. PJ's circuit provides 30 and dissipates nearly 4W in 2W of resistors. A 4k 5W resistor would be perfect. A 2k 10W will work too. Fusing seems redundant to me and out of place to me for a safety circuit.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Ya if it's a class A it only needs 5mA to trip. Not positive, but I'm pretty sure the Home Depot Midwest/GE Spa Panels have class A GFI's. I believe Class B's are 20mA and haven't been produced since the 60's
Those tags look great. What size are they, and can you post a link to the vendor?? Thanks, overall, everything's looking great.
I'm sorry, I misspoke here. In PJ's circuit 2kΩ resistance will provide 60mA and dissipate 7.2W. So a 10W resistor is a good choice. (2) 1W resistors in series should fry pretty quick.
4.7kΩ will give 26mA and 3W
10kΩ will give 12mA and 1.5W
OooooK And in the millisecond that it takes to trip the GFCI, this becomes a critical component???
The amout of heat subjected to the 1W resistors in a milisecond it takes to trip the GFCI ...
F it You all are on your own. I just beg you all to get real.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
P-J you really help a lot of people but man you are a mess. It's hard to talk to you about anything, and we weren't even talking to you, just about your E-stop circuit. I realize you put a lot of thought and it's a genius idea. If you came up with it you should be proud. I just don't get why you used 1K resistors in series. I'll try my 2K 10W resistor and if something bad happens I'll come back here and beg your forgiveness.
Ok... I'll butt out from now on unless the issue is directed to me.
Critical review accepted. Getting really old just plain sucks.!
Go for it.!
Edit: And BTW - I chose those particular resistors as they were commonly available at RadioShack. The fuse in series was placed to prevent a wiring mishap. Not for circuit protection.
Carry on....
Critical review accepted. Getting really old just plain sucks.!
Go for it.!
Edit: And BTW - I chose those particular resistors as they were commonly available at RadioShack. The fuse in series was placed to prevent a wiring mishap. Not for circuit protection.
Carry on....
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I thought that might be the reason, availability. It does make sense to use something that you can easily replace if needed. I'll go to Radio Shack tomorrow and see what they carry.
Regarding my project, I just finished all the piping. Pulled 4 6AWG wires through (that was NOT FUN) and landed everything in the main panel and new spa panel. Just waiting on the leviton plugs now and I should be brewing very soon.
PJ, we have been here before on this same topic. I think your e-stop GFCI shunt idea is brilliant and I've told you so several times. You have impressed ME and many others with your diagrams and the help you have provided here.
This is a technical area of our forum. I have only offered advice when I feel I can back it up with knowledge and/or experience. My challenge to your design is not a personal attack on you. Academically, I feel it is flawed. You have not yet defendend your design with anything but threats to quit the thread or forum in whole.
Offer me some calculations or experience to show why it makes sense to design a shunt circuit [strictly designed for safety purposes] to fail in non-ideal conditions and I will entertain your argument.
Thanks, I thought that might be the reason, availability. It does make sense to use something that you can easily replace if needed. I'll go to Radio Shack tomorrow and see what they carry.
Regarding my project, I just finished all the piping. Pulled 4 6AWG wires through (that was NOT FUN) and landed everything in the main panel and new spa panel. Just waiting on the leviton plugs now and I should be brewing very soon.
A reistor is the last thing you should have to replace in a well designed circuit. They are fundamental and it is so easy to calculate their limits....
Nice job on the conduit and wire! Happy brewing
NOT...
You are on your own.
I do NOT have to defend myself because you do not understand.
Geeze...
We are discussing a simple circuit. What do I not understand? Enlighten me. Seriously, I only want to argue technically. I respect you as my elder and made my best attemp to show that respect in my last post. Let's argue electrically. I am sure you could teach me things...I have no doubt of that.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Forgot to take photos yesterday so I took some today. Here's my main panel, spa panel, etc. installed.
Please no laughing at my old main panel!
The metal post is temporary until my brew shed is complete. It will mount to the outside (or possibly inside) wall when that's ready.
Please no laughing at my old main panel!
The metal post is temporary until my brew shed is complete. It will mount to the outside (or possibly inside) wall when that's ready.
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
Sorry just noticed your post. The tags are 1 3/4" by 1/2". I used Arial Rounded font and beveled edges. Ordered from Kal's recommendation, http://www.signsbannerstags.ca/electrical_tags_order.php
Thanks for the details on the tags! Keep on plugging away!
What are the three lights or buttons in between the PIDS? I saw that you didn't have them in your original mock up or cut-out, but added them afterwards. Looks like they're wired up on the behind view.
Are they indicator lights for when signals are sent from PIDS to elements?
Are they indicator lights for when signals are sent from PIDS to elements?
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
No, they are actually the RTD quick disconnects. I know most people put them on the bottom but I decided to put them close to the PID's because my RTD pigtail was only 12" long
Nice!
I remember seeing the light issue a few times. I think it was due to leakage through the ssr? There is a thread out there.
I remember seeing the light issue a few times. I think it was due to leakage through the ssr? There is a thread out there.
tjpfeister
Well-Known Member
VERY sexy. This gives me incentive to jamb more wires in mine today! I'm curious what your solution was to cutting square holes for the PIDs. Most people seem to gloss over that part and it has me wondering if I chose the normal route or not.
I'm not documenting every step, so I'm not posting here. But if you are curious, you can see my progression here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tims-Closet-Brewery/109802049089362
Also, the element indicators, I'm assuming they run off the high-side of the SSR (240v). I'm just curious why you chose to put them on that side instead of the control side. I'm not questioning the choice, I'm just wondering. I suppose it would lead to easier diagnosis of a failed SSR or element if the event were to occur, right? But triggering the indicator of the control side would likely eliminate the trickle-glow.
Sorry for flapping my digital lips so much, just enjoying my morning coffee and admiring your build! You have anything constructed on the rest of the rig? Stand/plumbing/etc?
I'm not documenting every step, so I'm not posting here. But if you are curious, you can see my progression here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tims-Closet-Brewery/109802049089362
Also, the element indicators, I'm assuming they run off the high-side of the SSR (240v). I'm just curious why you chose to put them on that side instead of the control side. I'm not questioning the choice, I'm just wondering. I suppose it would lead to easier diagnosis of a failed SSR or element if the event were to occur, right? But triggering the indicator of the control side would likely eliminate the trickle-glow.
Sorry for flapping my digital lips so much, just enjoying my morning coffee and admiring your build!
You have anything constructed on the rest of the rig? Stand/plumbing/etc?
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l3asturd
Well-Known Member
That was my prime suspect last night but I needed sleep, or at least the wife needed sleep. I don't like stopping until it's done. I'll search around for the thread and see what I can do.
mux said:
That's be great if that worked out to be my problem. I'll work on my 10/3 cords today to find out.
tjpfeister said:
I think the most common way is to drill holes in the corners and then use a jigsaw with a fine blade to cut out the squares. I did that and then used a flat file to clean it up. The PIDs were pretty snug.
tjpfeister said:
I'll check that out today for sure. Hope it's fun for you!
tjpfeister said:
I wanted to see when the elements are active, not just on. My plan was to see the lights light when the PID closed the SSR. I provided the red 240 t one sight of the light closed by the SSR and the black 240 closed by the switch. I think what's GOING to happen is the light with light up partially when I flip the element selector switch, then light up fully when the SSR closes. I have yet to test this because I have to program the PIDs. I may have to change my plan if I find it doesn't work. I'm not sure if the SSR leakage issue is a deal killer. I may have to supply the red 240 side from the NO power relay, to eliminate the chance of leakage voltage.
tjpfeister said:
Ya honestly I think the control panel is one of the last things I've been waiting on. The stand and vessels are all 95% ready to go. Auber sent me one bad temp probe but they've shipped a replacement already. They are AWESOME to work with. I'll try to take some pictures later today of the system near completion. Don't really have a lot left to do except make beer!
Here is the one I was thinking of:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/element-light-always-ssr-leakage-288043/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/element-light-always-ssr-leakage-288043/
This: With excellent compliments to Walker.!
Thanks lschiavo, that was a post by Walker from the thread you linked. He did an excellent job explaining the possibilites.
Thanks lschiavo, that was a post by Walker from the thread you linked. He did an excellent job explaining the possibilites.
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