Star San for water adjustment

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nobeerinheaven

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I'm trying to use something readily available to lower the ph of my mash. I could wait to brew in a few weeks when phosphoric acid arrives, but I'd rather try something with what's on hand. What's on hand? Either citric acid from the canning section of a local Wal-Mart or star san.

I hesitate to use citric acid because my water is fairly hard (EZ Water estimates my mash ph to be, for this recipe, 6.15). That means, I think, that I will need to use a relatively high quantity of citric acid, and I'm worried about this hitting the taste threshold when the beer is done (though there is some information about yeast using citric acid at some point in the fermentation process, I've not seen anything about approximately how much they use, and how this affects the final product).

So that leaves me with Star san. I do realize there are surfactants in there, but I'm not worried about it (among other things, because people have added 1 oz of star san to 5 gallons of wort, only to get a slightly sour beer). The question would be: How much Star San is necessary to lower the ph of my mash?

Volume: 11 gallons mash / 4 gallon sparge
EZ Water estimation of mash ph: 6.15

Water profile:

Calcium: (no info)
Magnesium: (no info)
Sodium: 19 ppm
Chloride: 43.4 ppm
Sulfate: 61 ppm
Alkalinity: 360 CaCO3 ppm (though I do not have Ca/Mg in my Lafayette, IN water report, I do have solid numbers for total hardness).

Any ideas?
 
Today I noticed the label has the acid contents listed. It's 50% phosphoric and 15% dodecylbenzensulfonic acid. with 88% lactic acid that I normally use for adjusting mash ph it only takes a couple of milliliters at most for a 5 gallon batch of beer, so with phoshporic I would imagine it would be much less. You might be able to tell the spread sheet that you have 50% phosphoric acid to get an idea.

The 15% acid (the one I can't pronounce) is apparently a main ingredient in laundry soap according to Wikipedia.
 
I think you misread your report. Your Alkaliniy is 240 and your Hardness is 360. I'm using this: http://www.lafayette.in.gov/egov/docs/1327947382_174560.pdf

I took that hardness number and with the assumption that 75% of that hardness is from calcium and 25% is from magnesium I entered it into this calculator and saved the setting for you: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=MTQ3VSB

your report is missing sodium as well. To get that I simply increased the sodium number until the ion balance was close to 0. I came up with 50.

Yes. this is water that needs attention for brewing anything but dark beers. It's actually very close to my well water.

Here are your options:

- using acids: will work for amber to brown beers since you won't need all that much. Lactic acid is good. Phosphoric acid is also good. I don't think you should use StarSan.

- dilute with reverse osmosis water. That will allow you to reduce the mineral levels and also use less acids to brew light colored beers.

- get a reverse osmosis system and build your water from scratch using salts.

- use slaked lime or boiling to precipitate alkalinity. This is a very elegant approach for your water since it is well suited for this. The idea is to form calcium carbonate from the water's calcium and alkalinity and let it precipitate. Then you decant the lower alkalinity water and use it for brewing.

By simply boiling 8 gal of your water with 3 g gypsum and 4 g calcium chloride I predict an alkalinity reduction to about 40 ppm. Your Cl and SO4 go up to 106 and 116 resectively. They end up being that high since they are the major anions left and your water has elevated Mg and Na which are not removed by boiling. Calcium salts should be added when boiling in order to keep the final Ca level above ~40 ppm.

I saved that state ina new record:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=LX3GN6P

To give more detailed advice on what to do, we need to know what you are trying to brew.

Kai
 
The bottom line is that its not worth screwing up a batch by using StarSan. I know that a StarSan residue has no effect on beer quality, just like Iodophor. But a more substantial dose could have flavor effects. That extra ingredient is a surfactant and it could affect more than flavor.

Kai, you screwed the pooch with your calculations. You used 260 ppm hardness instead of 360. There is no way that a brewer should have to add any additional calcium to decarbonate that Lafayette water by boiling. So the results quoted are incorrect.

The degree to which boiling can reduce alkalinity can vary. A typical range is that it will drop to about 45 to 65 ppm bicarbonate. Using the formula on the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website, you will see that you might drop the Ca to around 60 ppm from its starting concentration that is more likely around 130 ppm.

If you are in a pinch regarding an acid, the boiling should help out appreciably. It could drop the residual alkalinity into the sub 20 ppm range, which would help lighter beers greatly.

Kai, I like the ability to save info about your water and brewing information on the web. But it still looks like this is going to be a PITA since the user is going to have to log that number and remember it. It still seems that a web-based calculator is not ideal. I know that an Excel based calculator is also far from ideal, but I'm not sold on the experience. I wish I could code this in an executable, but its just not worth it.

For brewers that appreciate having their information on their own computer, Bru'n Water is a good alternative.
 
Star-San:

HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS: % ACGIH TLV OSHA/PEL

Phosphoric Acid (75%) (CAS# 7664-38-2) 50.0 1 mg/ m 1 mg/M3(TWA)
Dodecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid (CAS# 27176-87-0) 15.0 N/A

(Other compositional information is considered a trade secret).

That leaves 35% of "other stuff".

D...-sulfonic acid is a sulfactant, FYI.

MC
 
mabrungard said:
Kai, you screwed the pooch with your calculations. You used 260 ppm hardness instead of 360. There is no way that a brewer should have to add any additional calcium to decarbonate that Lafayette water by boiling. So the results quoted are incorrect.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out. I updated the records behind the links. I still think some added calcium helps when boiling this water.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
I think you misread your report. Your Alkaliniy is 240 and your Hardness is 360. I'm using this: http://www.lafayette.in.gov/egov/docs/1327947382_174560.pdf

I took that hardness number and with the assumption that 75% of that hardness is from calcium and 25% is from magnesium I entered it into this calculator and saved the setting for you: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=MTQ3VSB

your report is missing sodium as well. To get that I simply increased the sodium number until the ion balance was close to 0. I came up with 50.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Kai! The sodium numbers I previously included are accurate, to wit 19ppm, and found here: (See page 4, detected range 18-20ppm, highest measured 20ppm).

Kaiser said:
To give more detailed advice on what to do, we need to know what you are trying to brew.
Click to expand...

I'll be brewing an APA, which has been postponed to next weekend, during which time I've already got phosphoric acid on order from dudadiesel. I'd like the process to be as streamlined as possible, so if it's necessary to boil my mash water beforehand, I will, but only if. And if I can get rid of some of the problematic elements by acid, I'd prefer that -- even if that acid were starsan, which I don't think would have a noticeable affect on the beer, excepting perhaps a decent, and very long-lasting, head. (I've made beer with no adjustments and it turns out good, but I'd obviously like it better and I'd like to see my efficiency improve from the low 60s. I'm also in an apt., so RO is out of the question, and as I brew 11 gallon batches, I'd prefer not to have to purchase jugs of water to dilute).

mabrungard said:
The degree to which boiling can reduce alkalinity can vary. A typical range is that it will drop to about 45 to 65 ppm bicarbonate. Using the formula on the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website, you will see that you might drop the Ca to around 60 ppm from its starting concentration that is more likely around 130 ppm.

If you are in a pinch regarding an acid, the boiling should help out appreciably. It could drop the residual alkalinity into the sub 20 ppm range, which would help lighter beers greatly.
Click to expand...

So if the acid arrives before next Sat., will it be necessary to pre-boil my mash water? (Also, I'm a little confused as to how much phosphoric acid is necessary to step down my mash ph to 5.5 or so, perhaps one of you could give me some advice on that front, for my APA next Sat. I'm looking at 17lbs two-row, 1lb 20L, 1lb oats, 2lbs lightly home kilned malt -- for that last one, probably a ph similar to Vienna or Munich).
 
nobeerinheaven said:
I'll be brewing an APA, which has been postponed to next weekend, during which time I've already got phosphoric acid on order from dudadiesel. I'd like the process to be as streamlined as possible, so if it's necessary to boil my mash water beforehand, I will, but only if. And if I can get rid of some of the problematic elements by acid, I'd prefer that -- even if that acid were starsan, which I don't think would have a noticeable affect on the beer, excepting perhaps a decent, and very long-lasting, head. (I've made beer with no adjustments and it turns out good, but I'd obviously like it better and I'd like to see my efficiency improve from the low 60s. I'm also in an apt., so RO is out of the question, and as I brew 11 gallon batches, I'd prefer not to have to purchase jugs of water to dilute).
Click to expand...

I think it makes sense to preboil your water for that APA. How much can you boil? It also helps to have phosphoric or lactic acid. With 10 % phosphoric acid I would add about 40 ml to all water.

I played with your water and recipe here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=XVVBW1F

The mash pH prediction is about 5.5. I'm hesitant to add more acid w/o knowing the actual mash pH.

Do you know what kind of base malt it is? Is it Rahr?

11 gal batches in an appartment? Were do you brew?

Kai
 
mabrungard said:
Kai, I like the ability to save info about your water and brewing information on the web. But it still looks like this is going to be a PITA since the user is going to have to log that number and remember it. It still seems that a web-based calculator is not ideal. I know that an Excel based calculator is also far from ideal, but I'm not sold on the experience. I wish I could code this in an executable, but its just not worth it.
Click to expand...

The current link based/save restore model is largely intended to share water information between brewers. I wanted Brewer's Friend to implement this so I can use it in forum discussions just like this one. In the past I made updated versions of my spreadsheet available for download.

As we integrate this into the recipe editor the experience for users of Brewer's Friend as their recipe editor will be better than having to bookmark a number of links. But for those who want to use different recipe calculators the stand alone version will provide all the features with the drawback of having to keep track of your links.

There are distinct pros and cons for using a web based vs. a spreadsheet/desktop tool based approach for water treatment or any recipe calculator for that matter. I suggest that brewers take a look at both and decide what works best for them.

Kai
 
Great, thanks again Kai. I'll be getting 85% phosphoric acid from dudadiesel, not the 10% solution found in many brew shops. The ph that EZ water suggests for my mash is 6.15. I'll be using Briess brewer's two row as the base, and I'll be mashing in with 11 gallons, using about 4.5 for batch sparging. My kettle is 15 gallons, so I can certainly get the 11 gallons boiling, if necessary.

Also, I brew on my porch. (The good folks at Blichmann gave me that burner for free, BTW.)

Pump 001.jpg
 
nobeerinheaven said:
Great, thanks again Kai. I'll be getting 85% phosphoric acid from dudadiesel, not the 10% solution found in many brew shops.
Click to expand...

you'll have to adjust the percentage in the calculator and then lower the amount.

The ph that EZ water suggests for my mash is 6.15. I'll be using Briess brewer's two row as the base,
Click to expand...

w/o any water treatment the BF calculator gets to 5.9 with that grist. This is likely due to its more realistic modeling of the water's carbonate system and it's effect on mash pH

and I'll be mashing in with 11 gallons, using about 4.5 for batch sparging.
Click to expand...

do you mean that you have a total water need of 15.5 gal or that you need 11 gal water and you'll be using 5.5 for mashing and


My kettle is 15 gallons, so I can certainly get the 11 gallons boiling, if necessary.
Click to expand...

you should boil both the mash and the sparge water

Also, I brew on my porch. (The good folks at Blichmann gave me that burner for free, BTW.)
Click to expand...

nice set-up. That kettle with spigot will make it easy to decant the boiled water.



Here I updated the volumes and also added some chalk to the water. The addition of chalk to water before boiling is solely to provide more nucleation sites and thus more efficient chalk precipitation: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=VY4X4D6

Note that these salt additions are to a total water boil volume of 17 gal.

When this boiling thing works for you, I suggest that you take a look at slaked lime treatment for your water: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alkalinity_reduction_with_lime

The idea is to use slaked lime to precipitate alkalinity and for that you don't have to boil the water. You should be able to use your boil kettle for that kind of water treatment, though.

Kai
 
I wasn't talking about real kosher, but "kosher" as in "legit." So the pickling lime does essentially the same thing as boiling would do, so I don't have to boil, just add the appropriate amount of pickling lime?

Also: Does it really require waiting overnight to precipitate? Would a couple of hours do?
 
nobeerinheaven said:
I wasn't talking about real kosher, but "kosher" as in "legit." So the pickling lime does essentially the same thing as boiling would do, so I don't have to boil, just add the appropriate amount of pickling lime?
[\quote]

yes it does the same thing. The complication is only that you have to add as specific amount as opposed to boiling where you just have to boil the water for a while. I suggest you pick up a GH&KH test kit from an aquarium store to check that it had the expected effect.

Also: Does it really require waiting overnight to precipitate? Would a couple of hours do?
Click to expand...

Yes, it may take a while since chalk is a fairly fine precipitate.

Kai
Click to expand...
 
nobeerinheaven said:
Right, but what if I were lazy and made a pale without precipitating that chalk out? How does that affect the flavor?
Click to expand...

Its not that big a deal. The reaction rate forward with the CO2 driven off and the chalk precipitating is relatively fast. But the reverse reaction to either reintroduce and react CO2 into the water and get the chalk to re-ionize is very slow. Also, the acids in the mash are quite weak and they don't have the strength to move the reaction much faster either.
 
nobeerinheaven said:
Right, but what if I were lazy and made a pale without precipitating that chalk out? How does that affect the flavor?
Click to expand...

Unsurprisingly enough the beer will taste 'chalky' (or so I've been told). The situation is similar to what a home brewer gets when he follows one of those spreadsheets or calculators that tells him that the color of his beer requires that he add 2 tbsp chalk to a 5 gal mash. The chalk begins to dissolve and the pH rises slowly and so the brewer think all is fine but the long after he has put the pH meter away the chalk keeps dissolving. If he is lucky it gets trapped on the grain bed when he lauters/sparges. If he isn't it carries over into the kettle and fermenter where it continues to dissolve. All this results in higher pH which means more bicarbonate in solution and that must be responsible for the 'chalky' taste (Gordon Strong describes it as "AlkaSelzer beer").
 
I don’t think it’s a good idea to skip decanting the water. Yes, only part of the chalk is expected to re-dissolve during mashing. you can test its effect on mash pH by playing around with the “decant water” check box in the water calc link that I posted last. But make sure you remove the additional chalk that I added simply as a process aid.

W/o decanting the mash pH will not be as high as it would be w/o any CaCO3 precipitation but also not as low as it could be. So I would not skip that step.

ajdelange said:
Unsurprisingly enough the beer will taste 'chalky' (or so I've been told). The situation is similar to what a home brewer gets when he follows one of those spreadsheets or calculators that tells him that the color of his beer requires that he add 2 tbsp chalk to a 5 gal mash. The chalk begins to dissolve and the pH rises slowly and so the brewer think all is fine but the long after he has put the pH meter away the chalk keeps dissolving. If he is lucky it gets trapped on the grain bed when he lauters/sparges. If he isn't it carries over into the kettle and fermenter where it continues to dissolve. All this results in higher pH which means more bicarbonate in solution and that must be responsible for the 'chalky' taste (Gordon Strong describes it as "AlkaSelzer beer").
Click to expand...

A.J do you have practical observations to support this? I know we do have a disagreement on this and your understanding of the underlying chemistry is greater than mine. But I argue that what you are describing is not happening in most cases. I understand that if the chalk doesn’t fully dissolve it may end up in the BK or even the fermenter. But I have not seen evidence in in this. In fact there is one well documented experiment where I used dissolved and undissolved chalk (http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/11/24/undissolved-vs-dissolved-chalk-in-the-brewing-water/) and I did not see that pH difference in the fermenter.

Yes, there are bicarbonates in beer. If you have 2 atm CO2 pressure and a pH of 4.5 you need about 60 ppm HCO3 for equilibrium. But those 60 ppm are only a function of the CO2 content and the pH and not the original brewing water.

I agree that chalk can have a negative impact on beer taste but I don’t thinks it happens via that way you described it and maybe we can discuss this.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
A.J do you have practical observations to support this? I know we do have a disagreement on this and your understanding of the underlying chemistry is greater than mine.
Click to expand...
The 'observation' that it will taste chalky is not mine but rather what I have been told by people who have put lots of chalk into beer and, of course, Gordon's statements about alka selzer which is in his book and which he has mentioned in a couple of talks he has given. The rest is my attempt to explain why this might happen. If you have chalk in an acidic medium it is going to dissolve. Mash and wort contain a fair amount of acid. At pH 5.5 88% of the carbo will be in the form of CO2. In hot mash or the kettle CO2 isn't very soluble so a lot of that gas will escape. If gas escapes then the balance between carbonic, bicarbonate and carbonate is upset and can only be restored if more carbo is supplied by the system or the pH goes up. Both of these happen but the mash is a buffer so that the pH doesn't change that much but it does change some and will continue to do so until the system comes to equilibrium with atmospheric CO2 which will never happen until the pH reaches the vicinity of 8.4.

Kaiser said:
But I argue that what you are describing is not happening in most cases. I understand that if the chalk doesn’t fully dissolve it may end up in the BK or even the fermenter. But I have not seen evidence in in this. In fact there is one well documented experiment where I used dissolved and undissolved chalk (http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/11/24/undissolved-vs-dissolved-chalk-in-the-brewing-water/) and I did not see that pH difference in the fermenter.
Click to expand...

I would really expect most of the undissolved chalk to be trapped in the filter bed. Certainly if you are withdrawing bright wort that should be the case. So that leaves the time in the mash tun which is usually an hour for ales but could be several hours in a decoction mash. CaCO3 seems to react slowly and so even does bicarbonate as I was surprised to discover when I recorded pH continuously during an alkalinity titration (http://www.wetnewf.org/pdfs/measuring-alkalinity.html). So perhaps that's what is preventing much from dissolving. Or perhaps, even if some extra dissolves the yeast, which strive to maintain a pH they like, simply put more effort into secreting the acids they need in order to overcome the additional buffering imposed by the dissolved chalk (which in itself should be an argument for getting or keeping the chalk out).

But if the chalk isn't dissolving, how do we explain the chalky taste?

Kaiser said:
Yes, there are bicarbonates in beer. If you have 2 atm CO2 pressure and a pH of 4.5 you need about 60 ppm HCO3 for equilibrium. But those 60 ppm are only a function of the CO2 content and the pH and not the original brewing water.
Click to expand...

Good point. I get 72 ppm for the bicarb content at 2 Atm and pH 4.5 (I get about the same number as you do if I use ideally dilute chemistry). But if I increase the pH to 4.7 the bicarb zooms to 115 i.e. about doubles. Base purely on my line of reasoning I would suggest that the stress of the extra alkalinity would result in a higher pH for the beer but that's essentially saying that the yeast are unable to handle the extra alkalinity and I don't know that. The usual reason for controlling water alkalinity is for the benefit of the enzymes in the mash tun. I certainly have no experimental data correlating start and finish fermentation pH's for unusually alkaline worts.

Let's assume that more calcium carbonate is dissolving (I think that part has to be true if enough time is involved) and that this appears in the fermenter and that the yeast can handle the extra buffering load. That leaves the calcium as a possible explanation. Perhaps Gordon's "AlkaSelzer" is more apt than "chalky". Perhaps the guys (I think of my LHBS operator in particular) that use that phrase are victims of confirmation bias "I used chalk and the beer tastes chalky." But then any beer loaded with calcium and bicarbonate would taste like AlkaSelzer and I guess they do.


Kaiser said:
I agree that chalk can have a negative impact on beer taste but I don’t thinks it happens via that way you described it and maybe we can discuss this.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to pound my fist on the table and declare my explanation gospel. There certainly are questions
 
I'm not going to pound my fist on the table and declare my explanation gospel. There certainly are questions
Click to expand...
I agree. I don’t see my words as the gospel either and I we do seem to agree on a number of points.

ajdelange said:
The 'observation' that it will taste chalky is not mine but rather what I have been told by people who have put lots of chalk into beer and, of course, Gordon's statements about alka selzer which is in his book and which he has mentioned in a couple of talks he has given.
Click to expand...
I don’t contest the observations that Gordon or others are making. It would be interesting to have more data on these beers, though. For example the amount of chalk that has been used. Until a few years ago people were using John’s spreadsheet which called for a high amount of RA for dark beers. That RA was generally supplied by lots of chalk. More chalk than what you get out of modern water calculators.

I’m in agreement with you that if undissolved chalks makes it through the BK into the beer you may not see an impact on beer pH simply b/c the yeast is working on keeping that pH low. As a result you could end up with excessive calcium. So an interesting experiment would be the creation of carbonated waters with a pH of 4.5 and varying amounts of calcium. Then taste these waters to see if you end up with that “chalky” taste.

I would really expect most of the undissolved chalk to be trapped in the filter bed. Certainly if you are withdrawing bright wort that should be the case.
Click to expand...
This would be particularly interesting for BIAB brewers where the run-off is naturally cloudy and the undissolved chalk can end up in the BK.

Good point. I get 72 ppm for the bicarb content at 2 Atm and pH 4.5 (I get about the same number as you do if I use ideally dilute chemistry). But if I increase the pH to 4.7 the bicarb zooms to 115 i.e. about doubles. Base purely on my line of reasoning I would suggest that the stress of the extra alkalinity would result in a higher pH for the beer but that's essentially saying that the yeast are unable to handle the extra alkalinity and I don't know that. The usual reason for controlling water alkalinity is for the benefit of the enzymes in the mash tun. I certainly have no experimental data correlating start and finish fermentation pH's for unusually alkaline worts.
Click to expand...
My point is that the bicarbonate content of beer is controlled by its carbonation level, pH and temperature. It is not controlled by water treatment unless that alters your beer pH. beer pH is easy to measure and its very likely that the “chalky” beers didn’t have a higher pH than normal tasting beers. Thus the bicarbonate content of the beer would not be the culprit.

Let's assume that more calcium carbonate is dissolving (I think that part has to be true if enough time is involved) and that this appears in the fermenter and that the yeast can handle the extra buffering load. That leaves the calcium as a possible explanation. Perhaps Gordon's "AlkaSelzer" is more apt than "chalky". Perhaps the guys (I think of my LHBS operator in particular) that use that phrase are victims of confirmation bias "I used chalk and the beer tastes chalky." But then any beer loaded with calcium and bicarbonate would taste like AlkaSelzer and I guess they do.
Click to expand...
yes, I can support that theory. I.e. the chalky taste is from excessive calcium and not bicarbonate.

But again, how much chalk to you have to add to get into the danger zone and how big of a role does cloudy wort run-off play.

Kai
 
mabrungard said:
For brewers that appreciate having their information on their own computer, Bru'n Water is a good alternative.
Click to expand...

I just noticed this when looking at Bru'n water: It is illegal to keep separate copies of that spreadsheet. Your copyright clearly states that :"Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without the express permission of Martin Bungard is prohibited"

You may want to clear up that copyright in order to resolve some legal issues with keeping multiple copies or even downloading it.

Kai
 
He'd have a pretty hard time making a case stick considering he has it available for download and his posts here, but, yeah making the copyright wording match the actions is probably a "Good Thing"(tm) :D
 
One additional question: Why doesn't chalk precipitate out of the beer with the hot break? (I assume that it's because of the lower PH of the wort, but this post suggests that the elimination of CO2 is really what drives the precipitation of chalk, and that would happen with wort too as its boiling, right?)
 
chalk does not precipitate during the boil b/c of the lower pH. Even if CO2 is driven off, there are enough acids in the wort to keep the pH in the low to mid 5s and at that pH there is hardly any carbonate present.

Kai
 
As Kai said, additional chalk precipitation would not be occurring in the boil. The low pH and the rolling action of the boil would tend to help any suspended chalk and that action can be counterproductive for kettle pH. The slow reaction of chalk and its dissolution means that if there is excess suspended chalk in the kettle wort, the kettle pH may rise a bit higher than desired during the course of the boil. Hopefully any suspended chalk would settle in the post-boil stand in the kettle, but that is doubtful since its relatively short and the suspended chalk has very small particle size. The effect may be that chalk's pH elevating contributions continue into the fermenter. That is not a good thing either.

The bottom line is that suspended chalk is a poor alkalinity producer and cannot be relied upon for brewing use. I just revisited Kai's excellent paper: "The effect of brewing water and grist composition on the pH of the mash" where he presents experiments on suspended chalk and mash pH. It showed that chalk is quite ineffective at moving mash pH and aside from an initial bump of about 0.1 unit, it makes little difference when additional chalk is added to the mash. That agrees with the results that my professional and homebrew clients have reported to me. Do yourself a favor and don't use chalk in brewing.
 

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