A humbling experience.

Okay. I'm the manager of a homebrew store. I talk beer and wine with a lot of people every day. Then, I go home and read about beer or wine, obsessed right? So, I've made a couple of extract batches...turned out well. I know they have flaws, and I understand what happened. This is important as to not repeat mistakes.

ANYWAYS. It was 19°F tonight and I decided to do my first all-grain batch.

Mashed in @ 151°F for a nice american pale ale.

Sparged with 6 gallons at 170°F

Collected what I thought was 6.5 gallons.

After boiling and adding hops...I go to turn on my faucet that my IC is hooked up to...Nothing. Did I mention I live in an apartment complex. No outside water. I NEEDED that water to cool my wort quickly. Oh yeah. I live on the second floor. No throwing it in a snowbank for me...I DID manage to nearly melt the foot that had fallen over the past 2 days though.

After about 45 minutes I get it down to 90° and start to siphon it into my carboy. I only collect MAYBE 3.5 gallons.

...

So upset right now. I really didn't think I'd have this much trouble. This is a huge discouragement.

Cheers. Having a home brew as I type this. Waiting to pitch my starter.

Although, I did almost hit my est. OG. Only 2 points off. 3.5 gallon batch....


Grumble grumble.

I quit.

Lots of people on here just drain it into a bucket hot and don't chill at all... at least you got to brew. Hopefully the wife wont complain about the dirty kettle

I'm just upset things didn't go perfectly. The wife was the one MAKING me brew. I planned to brew this past Saturday, didn't work out....then Sunday....didn't work out then Monday...didn't work out....so she MADE me today. I rinsed out the mashtun in the bathroom at 2am. She's 15 weeks pregnant so she had to go to the bathroom....you should've seen her eyes when she saw the final remnants of grain. (95% went into a trash bag final 5 went into the tub where I scooped it out...apartment mind you). The house is cleaner than when I started....so I hope she's happy.

Always next time right?

I have markings on my mash paddle so I can tell how much wort I have in my kettle. Why did your chiller not work?

Always a next time. If you don't have a plan and you are being rushed,
you shouldn't brew. It should be a well thought out relaxing experience.
It amazes me how much trouble some people go through while they
are brewing. Good luck on your next batch and don't quit.

It will get better with time and experience. Aside from that, everybody has a bad brew-day at least once. I'm curious about how you came to manage a homebrewing store though. Did you apply there because you were looking for a job, enjoyed beer, wanted to try homebrewing...?

You had a learning experience. I can not tell you how I swore up and down when I literally melted the enamel off of my first kettle. Hell, I still spill beer on my floor when I bottle.

Then you get a big pot, switch to all grain and look at what you did and go, wow this is great, or at least drinkable.

So I will also point out that cooling wort quickly is not the worst thing to happen. What is the worst thing is if you pitch yeast when the wort is too hot. You can actually pour directly into the bucket and let it sit with an airlock for at least a day if not two, and pitch a large amount of yeast and it will be fine.

indianaroller said:

I have markings on my mash paddle so I can tell how much wort I have in my kettle. Why did your chiller not work?

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Sounds like the apartment complex shut off the water to the outdoor spigots.

How can you "Sparged with 6 gallons" yet only get 3.5 gallons? Was there that much water left in the Mash Tun? Oh well, I promise it gets better!

JohnnyO nailed it...threw in my last hops and put the kettle in the snow ...ran downstairs to turn the spigot on...nothing.

I filled my bk up to the highest amount I thought it could go without a boil over...which was actually well estimated. Its a 30 quart kettle...apparently I should have gotten the 40.

Always next time.

In the winter I am not averse to setting my BK outside and dealing with it in the morning. There are people who no-chill in hot climates and I take the risk that I won't get an infection this time of year overnight. Wost that has ever happened was getting too much hop utilization, which I often try to duplicate.

It will get better.

My fiancee worked for this place and they needed temporary help...

I started packing boxes, and moved my way into the retail store, and replaced the current manager when he moved away.

Been working there for about 4 months now.

So when people ask for brewing advice do you just wing it?

This might not be what you want to hear right now but with a kid on the way don't worry too much about going all grain. I moved back to extract till my kid turned two and those brews were few and far between. If you focus on sanitation, yeast pitch size and fermentation temp control you can still make some great beer for when you are being woken up every two hours for months and months.

Better yet start brewing like crazy now and build up a stock pile.

I'm still wondering how you can start boiling about 7 gallons and end up with only 3.5. I use a 30 turkey fryer pot and end up with almost 5.5 gallons with a 60 minute boil.

Well, get as many under your belt as you can before you have no free time to yourself!
Then as suggested quicker extract batches or even small batches may be the ticket for the time being.

Bottlebomber,
I understand the brewing process. Not sure what I have to wing? Last night was a bad night. Obviously.

As someone mentioned my next batch won't be so rushed, and I know what problems to look out for next time. It's still beer. Pitched a nice starter, keeping fermentation temps steady, and excruciating sanitation measures were in play.

asanderson89 said:

Bottlebomber,
I understand the brewing process. Not sure what I have to wing?

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Not to start a debate, but if you mashed and then used 6 gallons of sparge water and ended up with 3.5 gallons of beer and don't know why, at least admit there is some progress to be made

I'd say, based on your brewing experience, that at work your winging it!

Bull

burb

I don't understand how you work at a homebrew store? You make yourself sound like you have brewing for a couple months... No offense

Back off you guys he was just venting and looking for some encouragement not advice on his career path. Sounds like a great place to keep learning....and how do you learn without making mistakes? Good luck and keep on brewing!

Sorry didn't mean to judge, however when you state that you manage a homebrew store and give advice, yet you have only done a couple of (below to average extract batches)and one AG? I think you lose alot of credibilty there...

You should get better control over your information when brewing. You need to have a way of measuring the wort going into the kettle and into the carboy/fermenter.

Someone mentioned marking off a mash paddle. That will work. For me, I have a meter stick and for my boil kettle, I have written down what amount is in the kettle at each half liter, so 275 mm is 28.5 liters, for instance. If you're fermenting in glass, you can mark off on the carboy with a sharpie on the outside as you fill it with water. You don't need to mark the very low amounts, like 1, 2, 3 quarts etc, but when you get above 3 gallons or something, you can mark off each half gallon or so. Then use clear packing tape over the sharpie marks so they don't wash off.

If you can get good measurements, you'll have a better idea of what's going on and how to repeat your process when a brew is very successful and you want to make it again. If you're not using software, consider using it. I use Beersmith. You can then input all of this data and as you track your beers over several batches, you'll get a better idea of how much boil off you have, etc etc.

Also, as others have mentioned, it might not be the best idea to be giving out a lot of advice, at least without qualifying it. You could say "I read that this will work" for stuff you don't have direct experience with. But you shouldn't be giving advice in a way that would indicate that you have direct experience with something that you actually don't. It's misleading and could result in people making mistakes in their brewing process.

Anyway, best of luck. Cheers.

Maybe that is why they promoted him to mamagement.

Sorry, couldn't help it. I was curious about that too but was going to keep quiet cause I though you might get offended. But don't mind us, you got the job and you are having a baby.

Yeah, congrats on the baby. I have a 10 month old son here. It's a big change, but awesome. And I still manage to brew all grain, just for the record. But my wife is unusually patient with my brewing. I didn't manage to do much for the first few months, though.

Wow.

I started this job as a temporary box packer. Took some initiative in learning some basics, and moved up to my current position. Our store isn't like northern brewer, or midwest. Its a very small mom and pop place that has 6 employees. The person I replaced never even tried making an AG batch. Not sure where the correlation in expert beer and wine maker and operating a cash register and ordering yeast and hops comes in?

I have done 3 extract w/steepable grain batches...and now my first AG batch. I'm no expert at all. Nor have I ever stated that I am. I'm learning everyday. Just like all of you.

I fit as much of the sparge water into my kettle that I could without creating a boil over. Idk the exact amount. Measurements on the paddle is a great idea that needs to be taken care of. Not the first time I've heard it either.

I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from. We all start somewhere. I received the job and then learned to brew. Why does it have to be the other way around?

I don't think there is any hostility, I definitely wasn't trying to be rude. It's just that when someone like myself goes into a hobbyist store (which is what a HBS is) it's nice to be helped by someone who is knowledgeable in the hobby. There is a lot of time and money involved in brewing, and a lot of us can't afford to make many mistakes. I have only one HBS near me, and the employees are all very knowledable about brewing, so I assumed that was the norm. I for one don't enjoy shopping somewhere where I know more than the staff about what I'm looking for. If you've never used peat smoked malt and you sell it, what would you tell a customer who had never used it and wanted to know how much to use? Human nature would urge you to provide an answer for him, even though you likely haven't used it yourself. But I can tell you that even 8 ounces of the stuff can ruin a beer. Its great that you are learning more, and I don't think it was anyones intention to discourage you from that. It's just a little scary as a brewer to read a thread like this coming from the manager of a HBS, your duties should really include more than running a register.

I think there's more jealousy here than anything . Keep at it man, the first all grain batch is always a trainwreck ! Ask about my 7 hour 1.020 porter

What do you recommend I do bomber? More than just run a register? I do use my resources when I don't have an answer for a customer for my own experiences. I dont know off the top of my head what wyeast strain is a white labs substitute...but I NEVER tell someone something that I dont know is fact. If there is any guess work involved, I always disclose that to the person asking, and where the info is coming from. Our shop doesn't have a formal training program. My training was a Tim vandergrift "I made this" DVD and the homebrewing book that comes in the brewers best equipment kit. Everything else I've gotten from papazian, strong, palmer...I desperately looking for ways to improve my own knowledge...and for being 22 years old....a great, fun job, and a lifelong hobby...I'd say things are going pretty well. I was a huge HBT crawler before making my first post. I take things very personally, and I've momentarily thought to myself that i'm doing the brewing community a disservice and should quit my position and brewing. I really do enjoy my job though. So it's not really an option

3 gallons of beer kegged in about 12 more days....then time for round 2...perhaps I should just buy a third corney keg at cost instead, and brew sooner.

I'll throw out something here. I think everyone here is commenting as though they were the customer. I know myself, as a customer, get really frustrated when the employee at a specialty store isn't a full on expert. For example, I fly RC planes. the local Hobbytown used to be my main store because the employees were all knowledgeable. The owners basically ran them out, hired these "car salesman" types. They lost my business, those guys didn't know what they were talking about and that's one of the main points of supporting a local business.

Anyway, you're trying, and that's all that matters. If people want to be upset that your not an expert, they should be upset with the owners of the shop for not hiring experts, not you. You're being honest and trying to learn the game, can't ask for much more than that!

And for the record, I'm a new guy and not anywhere close to an expert

Kosch

Kosch said:

I'll throw out something here. I think everyone here is commenting as though they were the customer. I know myself, as a customer, get really frustrated when the employee at a specialty store isn't a full on expert. For example, I fly RC planes. the local Hobbytown used to be my main store because the employees were all knowledgeable. The owners basically ran them out, hired these "car salesman" types. They lost my business, those guys didn't know what they were talking about and that's one of the main points of supporting a local business.

Anyway, you're trying, and that's all that matters. If people want to be upset that your not an expert, they should be upset with the owners of the shop for not hiring experts, not you. You're being honest and trying to learn the game, can't ask for much more than that!

And for the record, I'm a new guy and not anywhere close to an expert

Kosch

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That sums up exactly how I feel, and thank you. I'm not trying to be rude, and I actually appreciate your honesty anderson. I don't think it was ever anyones intention to attack you personally, and so please don't take it personal. No I do not want you to stop brewing or quit your job, jesus especially not with a young one on the way. I do think that your boss need to be taking better care of training his employees though. He should be quizzing you guys and hosting brew days at the store, that's what I would do. My LHBS is exactly like yours, a mom and pop shop with a half dozen employees, however they are all extremely knowledgeable. One of them is a girl your age and she has been able to answer every ridiculous question I can think of (to be fair she is the bosses daughter and they've been doing this for awhile) so I guess I am spoiled.

asanderson89 said:

I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from. We all start somewhere. I received the job and then learned to brew. Why does it have to be the other way around?

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asanderson89 said:

I take things very personally, and I've momentarily thought to myself that i'm doing the brewing community a disservice and should quit my position and brewing. I really do enjoy my job though. So it's not really an option

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You shouldn't take it so personally. I don't think people were trying to be hostile to you at all.

You also shouldn't just focus on this stuff that's obviously annoying you. You should look at the good advice given here. You might have read a lot, but you don't have a lot of hands-on experience, and I lot of people here DO. So, instead of getting all upset, maybe try to glean what knowledge you can.

Anyway, I hope your beer is great and best of luck.

Don't take it to heart... It's great that you have a job that makes you happy however, if you want to learn don't start by saying that your a manager(perceived that your an expert) at a homebrew store... Rather try saying I'm 4 batches deep and have a question.

I'm a auto mechanic , have been for over 30 years , you'd be shocked at how many managers and service writer's can't change they're own spark plugs, or change they're own oil . Lol. Keep it up, it'll get better with patience and practice .

Chill pal, opinions are like ar**holes everybodys got one and their one shouldn't be overly important to you! Nobody get their first AG dead right. If they do they should retire undefeated and do something else for a hobby. The best thing i did on my first 1/2 dozen AG's was a 'to do' list for the brewday itself with timings and volumes. Doesn't half help to focus the head when there are a few things to do in a short space of time. Buy jugs and get your volume sorted, taking rough control of your process (how much and when) is a great 1st step. All the rest comes later as you go along. Read lots, get your own ideas and experience as you go and remember 'its only beer'! Well done on your step over to the dark side and good luck with the tasting come the day, i'm sure it'll be ace!

Wow, you fell into s great gig, it sounds like, depending on the pay, lol. Do not let anyone get you down. I had a similar-ish experience, I work in a Wine and Spirits dept. of a large grocery store chain and we added a HBS section, since I had some brewing knowledge, I became the default go to guy. Just be up front with your clients, sounds like you are, and learn from them too, many are happy to expound on their trials and tribulations. If you are really into brewing, read all you can and there is some surprisingly good info on youtube, especially Northern Brewer. one thing I did with my boss, I asked to start a homebrewing club, we meet once a month and share/taste brews. i brew a batch for the meetings every month, that way I get to brew at the store's dime and get the experiences and feedback for nothing or close to it.

Stay strong man, get as much sleep as you can that baby will change your life, congrats! Also, look into partial mash and BIAB brewing, really easy and kind of trendy right now. Allows you to gently step to all grain. Last thing, do not stop brewing because of one bad experience and some negative feedback, if that was the case there would be a very few amount of great brews and brewers out there. Prost.

baddad said:

I'm a auto mechanic , have been for over 30 years , you'd be shocked at how many managers and service writer's can't change they're own spark plugs, or change they're own oil . Lol. Keep it up, it'll get better with patience and practice .

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This right here. I can see where someone might point out him being a manager but to keep going on and backing up the reason for calling him out is uncalled for.

At my last law firm the IT manager knew nearly zero about computers, servers, etc. He was purely and simply a manager and would come to me with the most elementary of computer questions. However, he ran the department damn good and didn't need that knowledge with the staff he had on hand. I always thought his position was pointless until I got to my new firm. My new boss is an IT whiz, but a poor manager because he is always so busy doing actual IT work and not spending time managing. It's after this I saw the value of my old boss.


Rev.

i will just say this ... make very specific notes about what you did right and wrong ... you can't believe how easy it is to forget to do something that really worked, or do something that really didn't ... good luck

Keep impeccable notes, and follow all the rules. Especially in the beginning. If you want to be the biggest asset to your clients, you need to get a lot of experience and a lot more mistakes under your belt. Brew lots, and bottle lots. Most home brewer bottle due to cost, and having experience there will help you be relevent to your clientele. Also, do your best to stash a few away for extended aging. I just cracked a one year old oatmeal stout that is just phenomenal.