Countertop Brutus 20

jkarp said:

There are ventilation holes in the top and bottom sides of the bucket if you look closely.

ULD would be great but nobody makes 120V 2KW ULD elements. I've had no issues at all with the HD element, fortunately.

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I bet the March pump company would deny a motor replacement if they saw those 4 small vent holes at the top of the bucket not alone what is at the bottom of the bucket. I wish you all the best on the windings going the distance
for the price they are asking for them.

The built-in fan on the pump combined with the vent holes works just fine. Believe it or not, there are crazy homebrewers out there who actually brew outdoors in 100 deg weather! Which, coincidentally, is about the same temp as is in the bottom of the bucket during operation.

Do you honestly have a dedicated, JC controlled, cooling system to maintain "optimal" operation temps for your pump? Dude, they're not that fragile (or expensive).

You do realize what application these pumps were designed for, right? (Hint: it's not homebrewing.) Oil your pump as specified in the owner's manual and it'll last you far, far longer than the 1-year warranty.

So I brewed my first beer on this system this past weekend. Lots of learning still to do. The BK worked flawlessly, my recirculation system still needs some tweaks that I am working on. I have set up my system to do 5 gallon batches. The nice thing I have learned is that I will be able to fill my 8 gallon BK with my total water volume, heat it to strike temp, pump strike water to my 10 gal MLT, mash and then recirculate. I don't have to do any water additions, making things a bit more simple.

One question for JK though, did you do any testing with heating the "mashout" water to higher than 170? With my larger water volume it takes a really long time to recirculate and get my MLT temp back up to anywhere near 170. I was thinking of trying 175 degree water for the recirculation next brew.

Oh, regarding the pump, I have no qualms about putting it in a bucket inside my 70 degree house. Those pumps are heavy duty. I made several vent holes near the pump and at the top of the bucket. I agree with JK, putting it outside in 100 degree weather is just about as taxing. During recirculation you can take off the lid on the bucket to let even more air in.

jkarp said:

The built-in fan on the pump combined with the vent holes works just fine. Believe it or not, there are crazy homebrewers out there who actually brew outdoors in 100 deg weather! Which, coincidentally, is about the same temp as is in the bottom of the bucket during operation.

Do you honestly have a dedicated, JC controlled, cooling system to maintain "optimal" operation temps for your pump? Dude, they're not that fragile (or expensive).

You do realize what application these pumps were designed for, right? (Hint: it's not homebrewing.) Oil your pump as specified in the owner's manual and it'll last you far, far longer than the 1-year warranty.

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I have no problem with March pumps since the last pair went with the last old brewery I sold. Had one within 3 weeks with shunted windings to ground and replaced free, the second the impeller was just a hair too tight and would not rotate until some polishing with 1,200 grit took care of that problem. Priming was a problem I can do without hence I do not own a March pump now or for the future brewery build. The 1/10 HP Little Giant with 1" inlet at end center kicks butt and passes big lumps even with a mistake on my part as well primes every time. March is a good pump its that I switched to Little Giant and will never switch back. Hell the March pump was mounted on a camera tripod ball to position 360 degrees in any direction once as a test thinking it was me the problem. Was loaned a Little Giant from a fellow brewer, success case closed as I only purchased one pump so the price came out even plus trouble free service. JMO's and results here.

I don't own any march 809's but I doubt a 1/25 hp pump can generate enough heat to maintain high enough temps to kill itself within a vented 5 gallon bucket.
A quick temperature measurement would lay this to rest?

I've used other march pumps in a lab setting where they were being constantly blasted with 110F+ air from a compressor pump fan and they were fine for the 3 years I worked there.

HarkinBanks said:

One question for JK though, did you do any testing with heating the "mashout" water to higher than 170? With my larger water volume it takes a really long time to recirculate and get my MLT temp back up to anywhere near 170. I was thinking of trying 175 degree water for the recirculation next brew.

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For my 4 - 4.5 gal pre-boil volumes, it usually takes 30-45 minutes for the system to recover to 170. I can totally believe that larger mashes could take considerably longer tho. I can't see any problem with starting with hotter water for the mashout. I'd bet you could even start with boiling and stir it in at the beginning of recirculation to distribute and quickly bring the mash up to temp, then have the PID "hold" at 170 for the rest of your desired recirculation time.

Live brewcast on the Countertop Brutus 20 tomorrow morning. Details here!

this system intrigues me.

I don't think I can post a pic so here is a link to a pic of my Countertop Brutus 20. I absolutely love this system.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_S6DGhbXzhIw/SstY6g5GBSI/AAAAAAAAAhE/FSajarARb6Q/s1600-h/-1.jpg

Many, many thanks to Jkarp for all of his help and guidance getting this together. I could not have built the system without his help. A truly great guy. I am sure he is tired of all of my Pm's by now.

That's AWESOME!

Anybody happen to catch a copy of the November BYO yet?

I heard there were no more copies to be found in CO. Any idea why?

Just taking a SWAG - you're in it. Congratulations!

-OCD

That's not true! I left AT LEAST one copy behind at The Brew Hut.

This is pretty much a direct clone of jkarp's system with the exception of the chiller. I'm going no chill for now until I get a chance to get a chiller in the bucket. I was just too anxious to get through that first brew. I really want to publicly thank him for all of his help. Because of him, I became a paying member of the site.



Did my first brew today. Burnt out my element (stupid mistake on my part), so I had to finish on the stove. We'll see how it turns out in a few weeks, I guess.

Very cool! Except for the cooked element of course. I've come close to plugging in an empty kettle a couple times with the switch on. Now I don't plug ANYTHING in until I've got water in the kettle.

jkarp said:

Very cool! Except for the cooked element of course. I've come close to plugging in an empty kettle a couple times with the switch on. Now I don't plug ANYTHING in until I've got water in the kettle.

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I just wasn't paying close enough attention when heating the MLT and let the water get too low in the kettle. Unfortunately, I didn't realize my mistake until the mash was under way and the kettle was not heating the rest of my water. At that point I figured there's no turning back without wasting all the grain, so I trudged ahead.

This set up looks perfect for me. (1) I've been thinking about going electric for a while now, but don't have a 240-v set up; (2) I've been thinking about cutting the size of my batches to allow for more variety and a smaller belly (and No. 2 is on the way, so the wife isn't drinking her share!); (3) being able to brew out of reach of No. 1 would be nice (or easily transport the system to a friend's place); and (4) being able to store all of the components in a small closet is great.

I'm curious, has anyone tried the plate chiller in lieu of the CFC? I saw some older posts suggesting it, but have not seen any results posted.

BoilerInSoCal said:

This set up looks perfect for me. (1) I've been thinking about going electric for a while now, but don't have a 240-v set up; (2) I've been thinking about cutting the size of my batches to allow for more variety and a smaller belly (and No. 2 is on the way, so the wife isn't drinking her share!); (3) being able to brew out of reach of No. 1 would be nice (or easily transport the system to a friend's place); and (4) being able to store all of the components in a small closet is great.

I'm curious, has anyone tried the plate chiller in lieu of the CFC? I saw some older posts suggesting it, but have not seen any results posted.

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I did it with a shirron, works great, but you have to use a kettle screen in the brew pot. Backflushing is very easy. And don't think you have to limit yourself if you don't have 240, I use two 120V 2000W elements in my 8 gal BK, also works great. I have a 10 gal MLT.

jkarp said:

Pump / CFC inside:

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Interesting project. That raises a question regarding cleaning... Do you take everything apart once you are done cleaning? I'm wondering if mold builds up inside the silicone tubing if you leave everything connected after cleaning.

-Dan- said:

Interesting project. That raises a question regarding cleaning... Do you take everything apart once you are done cleaning? I'm wondering if mold builds up inside the silicone tubing if you leave everything connected after cleaning.

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Somewhere back in this thread I walked through a brew day. Once the beer's safely tucked away in the fermenter, I rinse the kettle, fill it with hot water and some Oxyclean and then cycle it through the pump and chiller for a few minutes. Oxyclean is a superb brewery cleaner. After the oxy cycle, I rinse out the kettle, fill again with hot water and pump it through the pump / CFC (dumping to the sink) to rinse it out. A dozen or so rotations of the bucket over the sink rolls out any remaining water from the coils and its ready to put up. Never seen a hint of mold anywhere - even with a month between brews.

Looking ahead, I figure I'll disassemble the silicone inside the bucket annually just to check for corrosion and give those connections a thorough cleaning.

Awesome article jkarp.

I'm thinking of building one myself now.

Awesome design!

The BYO article led me to finding this thread. I'm definitely going to build one, trying to utilize my existing equipment and possibly converting to 5Gal.

Definitely going to take a few pointers from this when I build my electric brew rig.

Congrats on the article Jkarp, can't wait to read it when it goes online!

Thanks everybody!

I was at the LHBS the other day in Virginia Beach VA talking about my goal of piecing together a brew setup out of kegs I'm picking up online and trying to make a dream build. But since I live on the oceanfront in a townhome with no garage and all the joys of being a happily married father I have lack of space. So the LHBS pulled out your article and recommended your setup. Word travels fast in the brew community! Great job man on a true piece of using what you got to do what you want...

jkarp, two quick questions on your thermocouple:

1) I only see two "liquid tight" TCs on AuberIns. Are you using the 2" or 4" probe model?
2) What fitting is used between the TC and the siteglass body?

Sockmonkey said:

jkarp, two quick questions on your thermocouple:

1) I only see two "liquid tight" TCs on AuberIns. Are you using the 2" or 4" probe model?
2) What fitting is used between the TC and the siteglass body?

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Go with the 4" TC. It will give you better readings during chill mode.

IIRC, you need a brass 1/2" to 1/4" reducer into the sightglass. The TC is 1/4". You can get the reducer at Home Depot in the plumbing section. Wrap the heck out of those connections with teflon tape, they can leak.

HarkinBanks said:

Go with the 4" TC. It will give you better readings during chill mode.

IIRC, you need a brass 1/2" to 1/4" reducer into the sightglass. The TC is 1/4". You can get the reducer at Home Depot in the plumbing section. Wrap the heck out of those connections with teflon tape, they can leak.

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Yes, go with the 4". I got the 2" and it doesn't protrude into the BK at all and it's a little slow and inaccurate by a degree or 2. The 4" is on my list of things to get in the future.

AScott said:

Yes, go with the 4". I got the 2" and it doesn't protrude into the BK at all and it's a little slow and inaccurate by a degree or 2. The 4" is on my list of things to get in the future.

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Thankfully JK told me to get the 4" one before I built my system, more kudos to the Countertop Brutus 20 guru.

You guys got it. I think that reducer may be missing from the BOM here. It *is* in the parts list I sent to BYO. I believe they're going to be doing an on-line extension to the article at http://*********** that will include it.

Got my issue of BYO yesterday in the mail.
Nice article, though I found this thread more useful (though quite a bit longer).

Thanks Baron ken. As is normal in publishing, quite a bit of detail got edited out. I'm hoping BYO will cover more of the details online when they post the materials list.

Dayum my friend! Just got my BYO today. Most excellent article! (And not because you mentioned my name!)

I am very humbled my friend, and thanks! This is very much your system!

You have gone to a place where I (and a lot of others) have been thinking for quite some time. Small batch brewing... As I started in a small apartment and then went to big batches, I have been working toward smaller batches too... Although I don't have the (lack) of drinking problem you have! A small batch could last me maybe a day? I miss experimenting sometimes, but I want to do it with all grain...

Excellent system bud... Gotta have a beer one day!

Congratulations on the BYO Article!!!

I'm still debating on whether I want to scale this system up for 5 gallons; if I can do it with a single 120V element (2000W), then it's a no brainer. If it's going to require multiple 120V elements or a 240V element, then that makes my decision much harder since it will introduce some logistical problems.

I've read every thread I can find on electric MLT / BK and some people indicate that 5 gallon batches can't be done with a single 120V element. However, the "Electric Heat Calculator" spreadsheet that has been referenced a lot indicates the following:

Heat 5 gallons 60F to 155F w/ 2000W = 37 minutes
Boil 7.5 gallons from 170F w/ 2000W = 24 minutes

These numbers seem reasonable to me. So, any thoughts or advice from JK or others?

Lonnie Mac said:

Dayum my friend! Just got my BYO today. Most excellent article! (And not because you mentioned my name!)

I am very humbled my friend, and thanks! This is very much your system!

You have gone to a place where I (and a lot of others) have been thinking for quite some time. Small batch brewing... As I started in a small apartment and then went to big batches, I have been working toward smaller batches too... Although I don't have the (lack) of drinking problem you have! A small batch could last me maybe a day? I miss experimenting sometimes, but I want to do it with all grain...

Excellent system bud... Gotta have a beer one day!

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Glad ya liked it Lonnie. I had a couple of quotes in there from you that sadly hit the editing room floor, but I was pumped they added the reference to your 10 build. Next time you're in CO, the beers are on me.

Sockmonkey said:

IHeat 5 gallons 60F to 155F w/ 2000W = 37 minutes
Boil 7.5 gallons from 170F w/ 2000W = 24 minutes

These numbers seem reasonable to me. So, any thoughts or advice from JK or others?

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5 gallons is quite doable, but that's starting volume. I get a good rolling boil with 5 gallons in my 120V 2KW kettle. After a 2 hour boil (max I ever envision doing), I'd end up with 3.5 gallons of finished beer.

Now, if you want 5 (or more likely 5.5) gallons of finished beer, you'd be looking at starting the boil with upwards of 7 gallons. Without some serious effort at controlling heat loss from the kettle, I really don't think a single 2KW element will give you a good boil on 7 gallons. POL, our resident electric brewing guru, may chime in, but I believe he'll have the same opinion. A weak boil can lead to some seriously disappointing beers (as anyone who's pushed their kitchen stove to the limits knows).

jkarp said:

5 gallons is quite doable, but that's starting volume. I get a good rolling boil with 5 gallons in my 120V 2KW kettle. After a 2 hour boil (max I ever envision doing), I'd end up with 3.5 gallons of finished beer.

Now, if you want 5 (or more likely 5.5) gallons of finished beer, you'd be looking at starting the boil with upwards of 7 gallons. Without some serious effort at controlling heat loss from the kettle, I really don't think a single 2KW element will give you a good boil on 7 gallons. POL, our resident electric brewing guru, may chime in, but I believe he'll have the same opinion. A weak boil can lead to some seriously disappointing beers (as anyone who's pushed their kitchen stove to the limits knows).

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JK is right on. After some experimenting and a lot of "Pol" reading on here, a 7 gal boil with one 2KW element will not cut it. I built my clone with two 2KW elements and it will give 7 gallons a rip roaring boil. I plug my second element into a separate circuit in my kitchen for the boil and throttle the other element in my PID back to 75%. This gives me 3500W for my full boil.

Totally super Awesome!