Carmel Mead

Really, I am just in the theoretical stage of a recipe design. I just need some advice.

I want to have a carmel flavored mead. My problem is that to make carmel it is essencially butter, milk and sugar as what makes it. I only have access to Alfalfa, Clove, and Wildflower honey. Adding butter and milk is BAD in mead and mead already has sugar in it. So how do I end up with a carmel flavor?

What spices or items would be recomended. I realize that this may work better as a braggot but I don't know how to make a braggot or what types of grains I am looking for. I have heard that Meadowfoam is a marshmellow like honey but I have no access or budget for finding it. Sorta suck with what I got as I buy my honey in bulk to make it cheaper ($1.70 a pound is what it ends up being) and can't afford to go high end on it.

So, Here is the problem: How would you get a carmel flavor in mead? What would be used as spices or additives or fruit to make it?

Any body have ideas?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/caramel-apple-mead-68519/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-cider-61257/?highlight=caramel+mead

Matrix4b said:

So how do I end up with a carmel flavor?

Any body have ideas?

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I steeped crystal malt for my Caramel Apple mead and I liked the caramel effect the malt provided.

Search in the cider section for a thread called Caramel Cider, or something along those lines. A lot of people have stepped in with advise and recipes. I believe a common method is to use crystal malt, which provides more fermentables, that caramel flavor you are looking for, and some non fermentables to leave a bit of residual sweetness.

*Edit, HOLY CRAP PEOPLE, we have nice timing.

Ok, Crystal Malt. That is a grain? I gather that I could easily find this in my local brew shop. What quantity is suggested for a robust carmel flavor, I am talking about like I am drinking Carmel. And by the sounds of this I put this in the primary? So my regular sweet show mead recipe would be fine just add Crystal Malt in it or does it require boiling out to make a kind of wort? Sorry for the questions, I have only delt with a few melomels and so far 1 meglathin. For my regular sweet desert mead:

20 pounds honey (Madahava's Alphafa)
2 packet of Lavin D47, preped in 6-8 oz of fruit juice at room temp 1/2 hr to 2 hrs before tossing)
1 teaspoon of yeast nutrient
2 teaspsoons of yeast energizer
4 gallons of bottled water (spring not distilled, brand I have is Local: Eldorado spring)
1 tablespon of stone dust, sanitized. (this helps my clarity and brings some smoothness,not needed though)

Then just add this Crystal Malt, at what stage?

Sorry no experiences with malts at all.

I just read the recipe. The recipie for it indicates to steep the grains in the apple juice for 45 min at 155 degrees temp. Here in colorado, I would probably go with 150 degrees max due to the fact that things boil at roughly 1 degree lower per 1000 ft. Will water work for the steeping and then just use that same water to mix in the honey? Do the grains need to be ground or mashed or just put in the water and kept at 150 degrees for 45 min? So this looks like a solution that is put in the primary.

Crystal or caramel malt is a grain you can buy from a home brew store. For a caramel mead I would steep 1-2# of the malt in a couple gallons of water at about 155F. Boiling point has nothing to do with recommended temperatures lower than boiling. Try to get malt between 20 and 60 lovibond, probably 20 or 40. Darker crystals will add some roasted and dark fruit flavors.

Then add your honey and make the mead as you normally would. You will probably want to leave it sweet. I don't think this will be like drinking caramel but it should have hints of caramel in the flavors.

If you want caramel liqueur then you will probably have to backsweeten heavily with some kind of caramel flavoring.

Craig

I'm in the middle of a experimental batch of "butterbeer" which is essentually what you're talking about, the goal is a carmel/butter/vanilla flavor. The recipe is as follows (one gallon batch)

1# Honey
10oz 6-row
3oz carapils
2oz crystal 20L
2oz crystal 40L
1oz crystal 60L

Yeast was the ringwood strain (WLP005)

It goes down like this (in theory at least, it's still in primary) mash the grain at 155 or so for an hour, sparge up to a bit less than a gallon, bring to a boil then flame out, cool to pitching temp, add honey, pitch yeast. at 5 days, rack into secondary with a vanilla bean and some lactose (to taste). The hope is that the ringwood yeast is known to produce diacytl, which is used as a butter flavoring, but then cleans up after itself if you leave it on the yeast, hence the early racking. The vanilla is for flavor, and the lactose is to add some extra residual sweetness and creamy body. YMMV, as I haven't perfected it yet and this is the first experiment.

Hmm, "Butterbeer" sounds great. This sounds like you are going to carbonate this. Hmm, not sure if yeast would do the trick. But sounds intersting. The Fig Melomel sounds really good, was it dry or sweet. I am not much for dry meads but that sounds great.

Eventually I want to do a Pineapple, lime, mint, mead. I tasted a drink that was those juices and it was heaven. Primarily Pineapple juice but hint of mint and lime.

Matrix4b said:

Hmm, "Butterbeer" sounds great. This sounds like you are going to carbonate this. Hmm, not sure if yeast would do the trick. But sounds intersting. The Fig Melomel sounds really good, was it dry or sweet. I am not much for dry meads but that sounds great.

Eventually I want to do a Pineapple, lime, mint, mead. I tasted a drink that was those juices and it was heaven. Primarily Pineapple juice but hint of mint and lime.

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Yeah, it's ment to be carbed, we'll see about the yeast on the first racking, which'll probably be in the next 2 days. As for the fig mead, it's an off-dry low gravity one, before the additions of the figs on secondary it had an OG of 1.080, but I'm sure the figs boosted it up some.

I think you are all missing something easy: caramelize some sugar! That's the main flavor that comes through in caramel sauce, the butter and milk are for creamy texture and taste. And caramelized sugar can't be fermented. I'd think to add it right at the start, just don't burn it.

You could also try adding some malto-dextrin to get the creamy mouth-feel. Some back-sweetening might also be in order to get the right sweetness, but that would be a very subjective addition.

Hmmm... this is starting to sound like I might need to try it!

Matrix4b said:

I want to have a carmel flavored mead. My problem is that to make carmel it is essencially butter, milk and sugar as what makes it. I only have access to Alfalfa, Clove, and Wildflower honey. Adding butter and milk is BAD in mead and mead already has sugar in it. So how do I end up with a carmel flavor?

Click to expand...

Sure, mead already has sugar in it, but caramel gets its flavour from the *caramelised* sugar. A quick Google search will return several pages explaining how to caramelise sugar.

Has anyone here ever put caramelized stuff in mead? Stuff that's been cooked isn't really supposed to make great mead, from everything I've read. I love baked apples, but I don't know whether the desirable mix of flavours that makes them tasty transfers into the mead, so I wouldn't even bother trying. I'm very interested to hear how this turns out. If I were planning it, I would aim for stuff that tastes like caramel without being cooked.

ContinentalDrifter said:

Has anyone here ever put caramelized stuff in mead? Stuff that's been cooked isn't really supposed to make great mead, from everything I've read.

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And where did you read this? Boiling honey is usually advised against, since it potentially drives off some of the more volatile aroma and flavour compounds, but that doesn't mean you can't heat other things. (And you can make a good mead with boiled honey; one poster on rec.crafts.meadmaking conducted a blind test with a panel and they actually preferred the one that had been boiled.)

ContinentalDrifter said:

If I were planning it, I would aim for stuff that tastes like caramel without being cooked.

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Like what? Crystal malt is cooked--it adds caramel flavour because some of the sugars caramelise during the production process. Caramel syrup and caramel liqueur are made with caramelised sugar. Dark candi sugar adds a bit of caramel flavour because some of the sugars caramelise during the production process (read: cooking).

flowerysong said:

And where did you read this?

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On the forums here. I've read quite a bit of advice against boiling honey, for instance (maybe more about the nose than the taste, though). When people use fruits, they use fresh or frozen, and tend to stay away from dried, baked, etc. Personally I love caramelized apples, and would use them in mead, but after reading the forums here, I am not planning on doing any meads with baked, dried, or caramelized anything until I hear about others having success. I haven't done any. Don't crucify me over it. Earlier I had asked the question about simply heating the honey and the overwhelming consensus was "no". I didn't mean to imply there's anything you can't put in mead. I would certainly like to hear some success stories about caramelized fruit or sugar in mead. It seems like everyone is concerned with integrating off flavours and burnt flavours into a mead.

ContinentalDrifter said:

On the forums here. I've read quite a bit of advice against boiling honey, for instance (maybe more about the nose than the taste, though). When people use fruits, they use fresh or frozen, and tend to stay away from dried, baked, etc.

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For the most part, yes, because they're trying to get fresh fruit flavours, which are different from cooked fruit flavours. However, if you look through fruit wine recipes (both here and at The Winemaking Home Page ) a bit more carefully, you'll notice that quite a few of them involve cooking the fruit.

But again, preferences regarding the treatment of fruit or honey has sweet **** all to do with the use of caramelised sugar. Unlike honey, sugar has no subtle character to drive off, and unlike fruit the cooked flavour (caramelisation) is exactly the flavour the OP was looking for.

I didn't realize that caramelised sugar didn't ferment. I figured that as far as the yeast was conserned sugar was sugar. I shall have to look up how to do so safely to some of the honey. I think using the crystal malt would be a good idea but holding some of the honey back and caramelising it prior to back sweetening sounds like it would work as an improvement. I hesitate to use carmel shots that is the artificial flavor for most baristas. Though that could be a good option. Not in the primary of course. I may stick a couple of vanilla beans in it. 2-4, possibly 4.

Oh, and I found this recipe, some modifications for crystal malt may be in order but it sounds like it might work out as a start.
20 lbs Tupelo honey (SG 1.130)
Water for about 5.5 gallons
2 pkgs Wyeast Rudesheimer smack packs

Add 2 gallons of room temperature water to primary fermentation bucket.

In a heavy-bottom, high-sided saucepan over low to medium-low heat, combine 2 cups honey, 4 Tbsp water, and drop of lemon juice (the lemon juice keeps the mixture from hardening or crystalling). NOTE: By maintaining a low heat on the stove, you'll have more control over the caramelizing process, as it is really easy to burn.

Cook, stirring constantly with a wooden spoon or silicone spatula, until mixture just begins to simmer.

After honey is simmering, cook for approximately 2 minutes, without stirring. Hold handle of pan and gently tilt the pan off the heat to distribute color evenly as honey caramelizes.

When honey reaches a uniform golden brown (light amber) color, immediately remove from heat and carefully stir in 4 cups of water. Watch the changing of the color carefully, it can go past the light brown stage quickly and burn.
Pour the caramelized honey into the primary. Repeat this procedure approximately 12 times.

* Add remaining honey to the primary fermentation bucket.
* Mix like crazy - do not skimp on this step
* Add water and mix while taking SG readings until 1.130 is reached.
* Add the fully inflated packages of yeast.
* Mix like crazy - do not skimp on this step

SNA schedule...

End of lag phase (about 10 hours): 2/3 tsp Fermaid-K, and 1/3 tsp DAP
1/3 sugar break SG 1.090 (about day 4): 1 tsp Fermaid-K
2/3 sugar break SG 1.050 (about day 8): 1 tsp Fermaid-K

If i were you. I would look into some simple brochet meads. Carmalizing honey can add some nice caramel flavors. You you can carmalize regular table sugar to add halfway thru fermentation. Then age for a week or 2 with a medium toasted oak. I understand that can add some buttery flavors to wine. Just a couple of ideas to try if you havent made yours yet

Matrix4b said:

Really, I am just in the theoretical stage of a recipe design. I just need some advice.

I want to have a carmel flavored mead. My problem is that to make carmel it is essencially butter, milk and sugar as what makes it. I only have access to Alfalfa, Clove, and Wildflower honey. Adding butter and milk is BAD in mead and mead already has sugar in it. So how do I end up with a carmel flavor?

What spices or items would be recomended. I realize that this may work better as a braggot but I don't know how to make a braggot or what types of grains I am looking for. I have heard that Meadowfoam is a marshmellow like honey but I have no access or budget for finding it. Sorta suck with what I got as I buy my honey in bulk to make it cheaper ($1.70 a pound is what it ends up being) and can't afford to go high end on it.

So, Here is the problem: How would you get a carmel flavor in mead? What would be used as spices or additives or fruit to make it?

Any body have ideas?

Click to expand...

There's already a lot of good suggestions, here, buuuuuuuuuuut.....

I make candy fairly regularly. Caramel is primarily vanilla and burnt sugar flavor. Simply mix sugar and water (typically I think it's 2:1 sugar to water typically) and some corn syrup in a pot and turn up the heat. Once it hits 212 it'll start boiling away the water. As it proceeds hotter and hotter, (and through the stages of soft ball, hard ball, soft crack, and hard crack), it gets more and more "concentrated" as the water starts disappearing. After the hard crack stage, caramelization happens and you get a crap ton of great new chemicals that start to contribute to that caramel flavor.

After getting it to burn (and you will smell a slight amount of smoke as you are cooking it) to your desired amount of brown-ness, (and it's typically more of a yellowish hue, and not actually "brown" brown, and definitely not black), if you're making caramels, you add milk.

This doesn't ad much in the way of flavor value to the caramel but give it body and mouthfeel (as well as affecting the actual texture and consistency of the end product, depending on how much you add), and once it settles down (cause adding it causes it to froth and foam instantly and crazily), vanilla is added.



So with that in mind, you probably could add a few vanilla pods and some sincerely carmelized honey or table sugar after brewing (or towards its end), and get the flavors. You may need to ad some sort of malt to approximate the milky, buttery mouthfeel otherwise lacking.

Backsweeten with some caremalized honey, this is a mead right. WVMJ

I do not know if his will help you or not.

1 can of sweetened condensed milk
put in a pot, bring to boil, simmer for 3 hours, keeping can covered with water. let cool, open can. it is caramel

Better faster safer way to make the milk caramel is to put those cans in a pressure cooker. WVMJ

odorf said:

I do not know if his will help you or not.

1 can of sweetened condensed milk
put in a pot, bring to boil, simmer for 3 hours, keeping can covered with water. let cool, open can. it is caramel

Click to expand...

WVMJ said:

Better faster safer way to make the milk caramel is to put those cans in a pressure cooker. WVMJ

Click to expand...

That's dulce de leche to be honest.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-caramel-and-dulce-de-leche



Honestly, caramel by boiling sugar in water and adding dairy is far quicker.