I need computer help! Freezing Computer

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Kayos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
1,364
Reaction score
10
Location
Santa Clarita
I posted a few weeks ago about a slow computer I have. It is a Dell 4550 about 5 years old with 256 RAM. I followed the suggestions of the awesome HBT poster and got another 512 card. It has been blazing fast since then. Now, I have a new problem. It freezes when it is in the middle of a project. Happens about every hour or so. I have to actually power it down with the power button. The mouse arrow moves around the screen, but cannot click anything. This has happened on and offline. It has happened while running an anti-virus scan, ad-aware scan, just about anything I am doing.
It was suggested to me to run a anti-virus scan (it can't make it through one!), and to take out the new RAM and see if it still happens (it does -- I tried it first with just the new 512 crucial card, then with just the old Dell 256 card -- both times it froze). Not sure if even has anything to do with the new RAM because it worked fine for 2 weeks.

What next?
 
To be blunt, it sounds like it's time to start looking for a new machine.

You can get a Dell Inspiron 530s with a 2Ghz Celeron 440, dvd burner, 1 gb of ram, a 250 GB hard drive and a 19" flatscreen for $579. If you don't need the monitor you can get it for $379.
 
I am assuming you are running Windows XP? Do you know how to get into safe mode? If so, have you run a AV scan in there?

I have to say, I doubt it is a virus. Usually when you are experiencing freezing it is usually because of bad hardware, bad driver associated with hardware, or corrupt windows.

Try booting into safe mode with all of your memory in. Do an AV scan and then do some cleanup on your computer:

Step 1: Control Panel>Add Remove Programs>remove any programs you no longer use
Step2: Open Internet Explorer (or whatver browser you are using) and clear all stored data including cookies, passwords, temporary files...everything.
Step 3: Then open up windows explorer and type in %temp% and delete everyting in that folder
Step 4: Go to Start>Programs>Accessories>System Tools and run Disk Cleanup
Step 5: In the same location as step 4, run disk defragmenter
Step 6: reboot into Windows normally
 
Oh, and dont expect this to happen quickly. This process will take a number of hours. Especially if you have a lot of data in your temporary folders

Also, seriously, start saving for a new computer. Even if we get this fixed and it stops freezing, you are going to have a new problem sooner rather than later. PC's dont last forever.
 
Likely to be spyware, and can be VERY difficult to eliminate all of it. If you don't have the skills to clean the system manually (even the best spyware and virus programs won't usually clean all the problems) I'd recommend doign backup and re-install from scratch (partition wipe).

I'd also try doing a system restore and see if that helps. Go back to the time when it was running good.

You could also check for bad Capacitors. Dell and everyone else, used capactitors which had a bad formula. After a couple of years the Caps woudl bulge and split and cause lockups and whatnot. VERY common problem with certain lines of computers. Just open the case and look at the big cylinder-shaped components arranged near the CPU. Those are filter caps and tops should be FLAT and WITHOUT any brownish stuff on them. If all of those are looking good, then possibly the Power Supply. Try replacing the power supply with a known good one.

It could be any of these things and more, but the caps are easy to check and the PSU is usually not hard to change if you can find one to try out. The worst would be reinstalling. Actually the worst would be spending many hours tryign to clean up the spyware, only to have to re-install anyway. Ok, so the worst would be the hard drive crashes before you can back up the data, but that is not likely...
 
Could mean a number of things. The short version is whatever is causing it to freeze in normal mode is not being loaded in safe mode.

Safe mode pretty much loads only the bare essentials and therefore does not load all of the drivers/software that has been installed over the time you have had your computer.

Did you go through the steps that I laid out? Did the AV Scan find anything?
 
that probably means you need ti uninstall the video drivers, download new ones and try reinstalling them.
 
that probably means you need ti uninstall the video drivers, download new ones and try reinstalling them.

That was going to be my next suggestion. Video drivers can get corrupted pretty easily. Typically, when this happens, the machine will restart on you, not just lock up, but I would not put it past it.
 
Ran the AV scan and nothing. Ran the adaware and it found a couple of threats. Could not get online because it was in "safe" mode. Restarted to get online in safe mode ...now it freezed in the safe mode choice screen before it even loads up. It seems like when I load it after it being off for a while it lasts a long time before it freezes. But when I try to shut down and immediately restart, the freezing happens within seconds.

5 minutes later got it back into safe mode with internet. Did all the steps you told me to. Standby for report....
 
Hmmm..might be worthwhile to make sure your fans are all working. Plus give the insides a good dusting with a can of air while you are in there. It would probably shut off if it was over heating, but it is worth a shot.

Let me see if I understand though....you are saying you are hitting F8 when the computer is booting up, and then eventually you get the list that asks if you want safe mode, safe mode with networking, last known good etc etc, and it is freezing there? That is effed up. Outside of a possible heat issue, you have a major problem.

At that point in the boot process Windows has not loaded, drivers have not loaded, only basic system stuff. If it is freezing there, and you don't have a heat issue, then I would say your hardware could possibly be toast.
 
That's what it was doing, but now I got it back in after about 10 minutes down time. It is back in safe mode and I did all the suggestions you said. While it is in safe mode, it never freezes. Also did a spyware check and it found 85 things. Erased them all but 1 malware that it said it could not delete. Also noticed that after I followed your suggestions that while running the AV scan, it still has hundreds of files titles "tracking cookie. Tacoda". Is that normal? Next?
 
reinstall windows sounds a lot like when Explorer.exe crashes...and that's a big component of your Windows OS.

if it goes tits-up that often, gut the OS and you'll probably be ok for a while.
 
How many processes are running on Startup? Check in Task Manager. I have found a lot of computers are slowed down by too many uneeded processes running on Startup.
 
+1 for a new machine.

If a new machine isn't feasible, +1 for a complete wipe and reinstall. I like to do a wipe/reinstall every few months on any computer running MS products.
 
That was going to be my next suggestion. Video drivers can get corrupted pretty easily. Typically, when this happens, the machine will restart on you, not just lock up, but I would not put it past it.

How do I uninstall these and find the right drivers to re-install them?
 
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

Has many good utilities for tracking down issues like this. Plus when you boot from it, it will take your current OS out of the equation, so you can be sure that if you find problems they are hardware related and if not you know it is an OS and/or driver issue.
 
After realizing that any problem on any older computer takes a minimum of 3 hours to troubleshoot and attempt to repair, I have decided it's just not worth it.

If you must run Windows (though I no longer do), store everything of value on an external drive and when your computer starts to get buggy, don't waste your time troubleshooting... just spend the hour it takes to reload windows and move on with your life.

Seriously, people think it's drastic, but if you keep everything stored externally, it's a HELL of a lot faster to reload your programs than it is to diddle around with all the ridiculous settings to find out what the problem is...
 
Seriously, it sounds like some buggy windows problem that happens. Back up your stuff and sing it with me! Fdisk format reinstall doo da, doo da...
 
How do I uninstall these and find the right drivers to re-install them?

Well, there are a couple of different ways depending on your system. If you have a Dell for example, you can go to their support site, enter your service tag and go to drivers and go to video. Download the file, run the executable, and you should be done.

If you dont have anything like that, then you will need to go to task manager, find out what kind of video adapter you have and search the internet for a driver (the manufacturers website is a good place to start). At that point, you will have to extract the driver to somewhere on your system, go back to device manager, right click your video adapter and choose 'update driver', then browse to the location of the extracted file and choose it.

However, I cant imagine it is a video driver anymore. if it is freezing at the safe mode menu, then it is nothing with Windows or with drivers. None of that stuff is loaded at that point. You are saying that it is freezing at the menu right? Not like you get to the menu, select safe mode, all those lines start going across your screen and THEN it freezes right? That is important info. If it freezes at the menu before you select anything, then it is a hardware issue and you are likely boned. If it happens after you make your selection and after you start seeing all the paths go across, then it is a driver issue and most likely can be resolved.
 
Actually, certain drivers are loaded in Safe Mode too. Also it could be a problem with certain file system files and that can be causing the mentioned symptoms.

The syptoms sound to me like bad caps. I know I've said it often, but it happens often. There was a HUGE problem with them a few years back, and some of them are still going bad. You can look it up online. I recommend everyone open the case and check for this. You can easily see if they are bad.

This would cause problems at ANY time, during boot, after running, or whatever. After running for a few minutes, and then restarting, the temps in the machine are already up there, so rebooting will then cause the machine to lock up while booting, due to the caps values going out of usable range.

Of course, it could also be the Power Supply, for the same reason. If the scans are not really showing much, I'd look at one of those two problems. A bad file would more likely show up at a consistent time (on boot, driver load, accessing certain hardware/software).

Also, a bad motherboard will sometimes not show any physical problems, and still be the culprit.

Get you one of those boot CDs, and load the OS from there. This will exonerate the OS you have installed and tell you if the hardware is the likely culprit.
 
Oh, and BTW - it is possible to replace the caps if they are bad, but you have to have decent soldering skills and you have to locate the correct ESR caps at say Mouser.com or Digikey.com.

Sometimes even caps that are bulged and have brownish electrolyte on the tops will still work fine for the computer, but not usually for very long.
 
That's what it was doing, but now I got it back in after about 10 minutes down time. It is back in safe mode and I did all the suggestions you said. While it is in safe mode, it never freezes. Also did a spyware check and it found 85 things. Erased them all but 1 malware that it said it could not delete. Also noticed that after I followed your suggestions that while running the AV scan, it still has hundreds of files titles "tracking cookie. Tacoda". Is that normal? Next?

Tracking cookies will not affect the operation of the system. YOu can ignore them for the purposes of performance. You might still not want to have them on the machine, but they will not cause it any problems It's a privacy thing.

I'd be concerned about the one thing it said it could not delete. Can you tell us what they called that?

Look in the C:\winnt\system32 folder and sort by date. Look for any .dll and .exe files that are VERY recents like today or yesterday, or the past few days. Look for files that have seemingly random characters. If you find them, do a google search on them and see if they are known bad files. Also be careful about not deleteing important file system files. They can also have funny names.
 
Seriously, it sounds like some buggy windows problem that happens. Back up your stuff and sing it with me! Fdisk format reinstall doo da, doo da...


OK, you are all right. I am going to start over. But, I am afraid I have no idea how to. Can someone explain how to "wipe clean", or "Fdiskformat"?.....Basically, I want to start fresh and clean. I have all the stuff that came with my Dell, but it was preinstalled and I am not sure how to get it all off and then have on there what I want on.

Help:confused:
 
OK, you are all right. I am going to start over. But, I am afraid I have no idea how to. Can someone explain how to "wipe clean", or "Fdiskformat"?.....Basically, I want to start fresh and clean. I have all the stuff that came with my Dell, but it was preinstalled and I am not sure how to get it all off and then have on there what I want on.

Help:confused:

Dells come with a "System Restore" disk, which can restore your entire system. WARNING! This will typically erase EVERYTHING on your hard disk, so back up what you want to keep on an external hard drive, another computer, etc. Usually, you can just pop the System Restore disk while in Windows and it will launch the program. However, you can also restart the computer, and boot from the CD. The installation should be more or less automatic, with no need to use FDISK or FORMAT.COM. The installation may ask you to put in the "Applications" CD, depending on your model.

After the install, you'll have a bunch of "crapware" floating around on your desktop (always an irritation of mine). I recommend going immediately to the Add/Remove Programs and removing anything that is not necessary. Then restart the computer, and install a good Antivirus/Antispyware program. After that, go to Windows Update and download all critical updates (sucks, but this will take a LONG time and a couple restarts).

This whole process is a PITA, but you'll have a nice responsive system afterwards!
 
Sometimes starting over is a lot of work if you are not experienced. Dells usually come with CD, but they also sometimes come with a restore partition hidden on the Hard Drive. I think F11 when booting the BIOS will bring up the recovery page if there is one.

Backing up can be as simple as burning to CD everything you want to keep; Music, Documents, Pictures, email files, bookmarks, etc. and then replacing in the proper locations when the new OS is installed.

If you use the recovery partition from Dell, it will, or will enable you to format the drive. If installing from Windows CD, you can select format or partition from the installation program. You can start the install process by inserting the Windows CD and rebooting the machine. Reboot to the CD drive (make sure the CD is ahead of the Hard Disk in the BIOS or it won't work) and follow the instructions. At one point it will ask if you want to format the drive and say yes, full format.

Sometimes Dell's partitions dont' really allow for re-install from Windows CD unless you repartition the drives. PITA but for some of my customers they like having the system exactly as Dell sent it (even though it would be better for them to not have the extra stuff on there to start with).

You can also search Dell's website for hints and tips on doing all of this. The F11 key was something I had to call to find out though.
 
I think F11 when booting the BIOS will bring up the recovery page if there is one.

If you use the recovery partition from Dell, it will, or will enable you to format the drive. If installing from Windows CD, you can select format or partition from the installation program. You can start the install process by inserting the Windows CD and rebooting the machine. Reboot to the CD drive (make sure the CD is ahead of the Hard Disk in the BIOS or it won't work) and follow the instructions. At one point it will ask if you want to format the drive and say yes, full format.

Sometimes Dell's partitions dont' really allow for re-install from Windows CD unless you repartition the drives. PITA but for some of my customers they like having the system exactly as Dell sent it (even though it would be better for them to not have the extra stuff on there to start with).

Ok, Homer....I am feeling dumber and dumber here. Yes, it says press F11 for recovery. What does this do, exactly? What is a "recovery partition"? Does that mean it starts as new, or that it saves my stuff for me?If I do this, do I need to use the windows CD? And what does "make sure the windows CD is ahead of the hard disk mean"? Sorry :confused:

If it matters at this point, I would rather NOT have all the Dell junk that comes when it is new. That stuff is garbage. I would love to have a clean slate with my stuff on the external HD I have and just install what I need.



BTW...I checked the "caps" like you said and I cannot see anything funky there.
 
WHen you press F11 it will start a program that lets you format the drive ans make the computer exactly like it was when it was built. Usually this means you lose all of your data files, so get that backup done first.

I think you can also perform a "repair" from there, but not sure. I've only ever done it once for a client. Usually I recommend backing up and installing from Windows CD to avoid the extra junkware that so many brand name computers load (to offset their low prices).

The options would be listed after the program start I think. When I did the neighbors computer, she wanted it just as it came from the factory. Man, I could not believe the amount of junk they loaded! Funny thing is, after doing all that we sat for an hour and uninstalled nearly every single program back off.

After re-installing, go to Dell site and download and install the drivers for everything since they have likely been updated these past years. Then get antivirus and especially zonealarm firewall, then do the Windows Updates a couple of times until they are are loaded. With zonealarm and antivirus you should be safe from future problems (unless you click on something you shouldn't).
 
OK, so I will not use the F11, correct? Just use the disks to avoid the garbage.

Can you explain what Fdisk is for future reference that these guys are talking about?

Also, EdWort has told me a few times that when he gets a new computer, e builds a partition and saves everything to that so when this happens it is no big deal to wipe his OS and start over. What exactly is he talking about? Should I do that?
 
Booting to CD might happen automatically, just press any key at the proper time. However, in your BIOS the Hard Drive might be set to boot before the option to boot the CD is offered. Therefore, the Hard Drive will boot and not let the CD option show up.

The fix is to enter the BIOS (Hit Del key as the machine is booting, or maybe F2), and move the CD Drive up the list so that it is set to boot ahead of the Hard Drive. Then you will be given the option to boot from the CD. You will not need a Windows CD for this I think.

Also note that you will be required to perform any backups YOURSELF before starting the recovery. Burn to CD or move to memory stick, etc. so that you can put the files back when you are done.

In order to avoid loading all of the Dell crap, you WILL need a Windows CD, and the Codes to install (usually on the side of the case). However I had a hard time getting the install program to recognize the drive due to Dell's funky partitioning. You would have to use a partition utility to delete all of the partitions and start from scratch. Not a bad idea, but more work. I use Partition Magic, but not sure where you would find that. I've also used Linux boot disks, but there may be other utilities out there. Maybe do a search.

If it's not the caps, then hopefully a re-install will fix it. I've had the same symptoms from a bad Power Supply as well, but not as often.
 
1st - get a new computer.
2nd - the problem is probably heat related. Heat related issues fall into two categories:

a) The fan has been pulling dust into the machine for the last few years. Open it up and use a can of air to get all the gunk off everything. While you have the computer open try (b)

b) Constant heating and cooling of the motherboard can cause memory chip, the cpu, and expansion cards to come loose. This is classic in older machines because newer machines are better equipped with connectors that resist loosening. Give you memory cards, cpu, and expansion cards a little nudge to try and reseat them.

b) It is possible that the fan has given up the ghost.
 
1st - get a new computer.
2nd - the problem is probably heat related. Heat related issues fall into two categories:

a) The fan has been pulling dust into the machine for the last few years. Open it up and use a can of air to get all the gunk off everything. While you have the computer open try (b)

b) Constant heating and cooling of the motherboard can cause memory chip, the cpu, and expansion cards to come loose. This is classic in older machines because newer machines are better equipped with connectors that resist loosening. Give you memory cards, cpu, and expansion cards a little nudge to try and reseat them.

b) It is possible that the fan has given up the ghost.

1. I agree. The thing is that I was hoping to keep this one for the kids room. just for word, clipart, school stuff (no internet!;))

2. I had ot open when I put in new memory cards recently and cleaned out everything really well as well as pressing the "guts" back in. I also checked the fan and that seems to be working OK.


It just seems strange that this never happened before I put in the bigger RAM a few weeks ago. But then again it was fine for 2 weeks after that...grrrrrr
 
OK, so I will not use the F11, correct? Just use the disks to avoid the garbage.

Can you explain what Fdisk is for future reference that these guys are talking about?

Also, EdWort has told me a few times that when he gets a new computer, e builds a partition and saves everything to that so when this happens it is no big deal to wipe his OS and start over. What exactly is he talking about? Should I do that?

If'n it were me, I'd use the partition utility of my choice to delete the partitions on the drive, and then boot a Windows install disk and start over completely. It takes a bit more time, but really much faster than uninstalling a bunch of junk later.

FDISK is a DOS/Windows/Linux utility that manages the paritions on your drive. Think of a partition as a "slice" of your hard drive. You are essentially creating smaller virtual discs out of one bigger physical disk. THis can very useful for keeping your files organized, or for having the option to boot more than one OS if you want. Ed probably does this to make a backup partition on his drives. This is a great idea, and if you want to take the time, I recommend it.

First, you should be able to find some very good instructions online for partitioning using FDISK or whatever. If you have the drive space that is. You will need at least 1 PRIMARY partition, and make it active. Then you can create SECONDARY partition with LOGICAL partitions in that.

You can then use an imaging software to create an image of your OS partition when you are done installing everything. Then, you can use that image file to recover the machine if you have problems later. And it only takes a few minutes at that point.

I also like to use a logical drive to store my data files, so that I can more confidently play with the OS partition without fear of losing data. This is what your drive might look like:

C:\ (PRIMARY ACTIVE) = 40+ GB used to boot the OS and store program files
D:\ (LOGICAL) = 80 GB data drive. Used to hold music, pictures, etc.
E:\ (LOGICAL) = 10 GB. Keeps one or more images of your Primary partition for restoration purposes.

The sizes of these examples can vary depending on many factors, including the size of your disk, and the space you need for your apps and files.
 
1. I agree. The thing is that I was hoping to keep this one for the kids room. just for word, clipart, school stuff (no internet!;))

2. I had ot open when I put in new memory cards recently and cleaned out everything really well as well as pressing the "guts" back in. I also checked the fan and that seems to be working OK.


It just seems strange that this never happened before I put in the bigger RAM a few weeks ago. But then again it was fine for 2 weeks after that...grrrrrr

Well, it *Could* be mismatched memory, or even a bad stick. Maybe try removing one of the sticks and see if it works better. Sometimes bad memory doesn't show itself right away. You can even run a memory test software utility that will perform read write tests on the memory and report any failures.

Or, it could be dirty power. A PSU that is not putting out proper current could show up if the memory is more sensitive to that.

Honestly, the root cause may be hard to find without trying several things out. That would make a great kids machine and very worth having, so don't give up on it. This might end up being a little frustrating, but going through these steps will give you tons of experience and confidence.
 
Installing you OS anew is never a bad thing IMO. However, if you are freezing at the safe mode menu, I would have a hard time believing it is Windows. There are very, very few components of Windows loaded at that time. As suggested, I would remove the memory chip before I did anything else. It is VERY possible that is the culprit IMO. Heat is another possibility, and the power could possibly be the issue, although I think that is slim.

It will take you two seconds to remove the memory stick and see what happnens vs numerous hours to reinstall the OS. I would certainly start there.
 
I agre with Cubbies about windows running better on a fresh install, even though I have run mine for at least 4 years without doing that. The last time was due to an upgrade in hardware. Being careful online and using good protection software can keep the nasties off the machine.

I agree also that having freezes before the OS boots is indicative of hardware issue not software, although even during the early boot phase, a critical windows file could be causing the issue.

I use canned air to clear any dust (ok, I actually use my shop compressor, but canned air is good too), and I like to remove each card/stick and clean the contact edges with a pencil eraser to remove any dirt or oxidation. Be careful not to damage the part, and wipe clean with clean dry cloth. An earth ground is also a good idea if you can.

If your video card has a fan on it, make sure that is working properly too. They are under the video card and hard to see. Your computer will not have this if the video is on board the motherboard. Also check the northbridge chipset. It might have a fan on it. Oh it's a Dell, nevermind. Retail MOBOs often have them, and they are usually pretty cheap (unrealiable).

See? troubleshooting PCs is so much fun!
 
Well, it *Could* be mismatched memory, or even a bad stick. Maybe try removing one of the sticks and see if it works better. Sometimes bad memory doesn't show itself right away. You can even run a memory test software utility that will perform read write tests on the memory and report any failures.

Or, it could be dirty power. A PSU that is not putting out proper current could show up if the memory is more sensitive to that.

Also, try doing a system restore through windows. Start, Accessories, System Tools, System Restore. Take it back to a date a week or 2 b4 the prob began.


Forgot to add
Yes, running a bootable memtest would be a good idea for checking each stick of mem separately ........... get the http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ that someone posted and run the memtest 86+, also that bootcd offers a CPU stress test.....might as well run that to see if the prob is the CPU.
 
First thing I did was the RAM diagnosis. Took out each one and left it as it was before I ever bought the the new stuff. No difference. It was actually worse when I put the original one in only without the new.

OK, to make it more weird.....in the morning after it has been resting all night, it lets me get about an hour out of it before it freezes up. Then as the day goes on and it has been used a bunch I end up getting about 5 minutes between freezes. So I am thinking heat. But then I run it in safe mode and it will never freeze. So it can't be heat. It froze while in the BIOS only once and that may be because I tried to reboot too dam fast (didn't toally shut down). It only did that once. Hasn't happened since that time and I think that is not the problem.

Homer --

I really like the idea of having partitions on my drive for different applications and to have a backup for all of my "stuff". Problem is that what you said is over my head. What is "LOGICAL" partition and when do I use those as opposed to the other kind. When I need to reboot and wipe clean, does the reinstall not touch the things on some of the partitions?
Can I get a partition utility as freeware or do I need to head to the software store?
 
Back
Top