Priming Sugar Taste

I recently brewed an IPA recipe and decided to take it to our local bike shop for our weekly happy hour for others to critique. These are definitely guys with good beer palates, and one is a pretty big brewer. The first thing one tasted commented on the taste or the priming sugar. I guess I've never noticed it before, or could point out what that taste is. Is this something normal, others have this issue?
My friend suggested to kroizen (sp?) my next beer. The way he explained it was to cap 2 bottles from my next batch before adding the yeast, letting them sit, and then adding them to the bottling bucket. Anyone have anymore info on this?

Thanka

Are you disolving it all of the way/ racking onto it balance it between all of the bottles?

How can anyone claim to be tasting normal priming sugar when it ferments away to nothing?

If you are using a brown sugar, or a dark honey or syrup, yes it is possible, the carmalization/maillard reaction would leave some unfermentable "flavenoids," but table/corn which ferments 100% cleanly away? I would have to suggest that they are full of ****...it's not possible....I call beer posers. He's mentioning Krausening to sound like he knows something, but the whole "tasting priming sugar" is just a buncha nonsense.

I agree with Revvy, and regarding your "kroizen" question.. I think the word they were looking for was krausen (or I've just never heard the word kroizen which is highly possible), which has nothing to do with priming. By what you said it sounds like he's saving a little pre-boiled wort or mash runnings to prime with, which can be done if you do it correctly..

Agreed 100%. This guy is a tool trying to act like he knows something. If you are using typical priming sugar, there is nothing left but an infitesimal amount of alcohol, plus CO2.

Yeah, what Revy said. I was told to use DME but I can say that leaves behind a taste because unlike sugar it's not 100% fermentable

I was thinking he meant to say "cidery" in reference to the priming sugar

hxcpunk71 said:

I was thinking he meant to say "cidery" in reference to the priming sugar

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And that's still a load of BS, the whole "cidery" think about using sugar is with the amount of sugar exceeds 30-40% of one's grainbill, NOT 5 ounces of COMMONLY USED BY MILLIONS OF BREWERS, corn or table sugar.

Many, many beer styles, such as Belgians for example use sugars, within reason and their beer's don't taste cidery do they? It's only when you have someone wanting to bump up their cooper's kits with MORE SUGAR than the couple pounds that the recipe calls for, that you run into the so called "cidery sugar effect."

Again, more poser bs.

Daver77 said:

Yeah, what Revy said. I was told to use DME but I can say that leaves behind a taste because unlike sugar it's not 100% fermentable

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Depends on the dme as well, priming with extralight, doubtful you'd discern any taste, prime with any darker extract? Then you'd get the same effect as priming with brown sugar, the caramel unfermentables would be picked up.

I've split a stout into 2 batches before to test this exact theory. One half was primed with corn sugar, the other with the darkest brown sugar I can get in Germany. After three weeks of carbing up, there was a barely perceptible difference. Either this guy has super human taste buds, or, as Revvy suggested he is full of it.

krausening works, but i found it leaves much more flavour issues that take even more time to clear........

Your bike shop buddy is full of crap. Let me guess...he's a roadie/triathelete
-or- he rides a fixie -or- he rides a single speed 29er in full spandex. Tell him to get bent and go finish his MGD 64.

Yeah, this is nonsense. The sugar used to prime beer for bottle carbonation ferments away entirely and doesn't contribute noticeably to flavor.

I just wanted to point out that the krausen reference might be for yeast saving. The krausen is full of very active yeast so some people will pull the krausen off of a beer to save the yeast.

Don't know why you'd re-add it at bottling time.

Some people add canned wort at bottling time to prime, that whole "no simple sugar or extract in my beer!" purity thing. Maybe thats what biker dude was talking about...

jaycount said:

Don't know why you'd re-add it at bottling time.

Some people add canned wort at bottling time to prime, that whole "no simple sugar or extract in my beer!" purity thing. Maybe thats what biker dude was talking about...

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That IS the definintion of Krausening as it relates to bottling.

Kräusening is the traditional method that German brewers use to carbonate their beer, most often lager beers. Basically, the process consists of adding freshly fermenting wort to beer that is ready to bottle.

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But yeah, one is more apt to get some flavors from THAT method if the wort is a darker one, than using plain old sugar or corn sugar.

not to be that guy, but i have noticed a very slight (i mean VERY) slight flavor in bottle conditioned beers that are still fairly young, 2-4 weeks in bottles (my bottles take 4-5 weeks to turn, in most cases). i have a very sensitive palate, and only one other person i know has said they tasted this in home-brewed beer. this is a flavor that is completely gone when the bottles are fully conditioned, doesn't appear in kegged beer or in beer that i use DME to carb. i wouldn't call the flavor cider-y or anything, but it's a mild, tart flavor that i've always attributed to green beer in bottles. and like i said, by the time the beer's finished conditioning, this flavor is completely gone. i guess what i'm getting at is, were these bottles fairly young? could this guy have tasted the same thing i've tasted in young bottles?

KayaBrew said:

Your bike shop buddy is full of crap. Let me guess...he's a roadie/triathelete
-or- he rides a fixie -or- he rides a single speed 29er in full spandex. Tell him to get bent and go finish his MGD 64.

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Yah.. get "bent".. I have three of them.. two uprights and a trike..

Some of you people are awful edgy, put down the pitchforks!

A guy noticed what he thought was an offtaste and gave his thought/opinion on what might be causing it. Even if he is completely wrong, give em a break! He's trying to be helpful, no need to bring out the guillotine!

I do like the idea of using a couple of bottles of wort to prime with, as long as you figure out the proper quantity it would be pretty easy. Bottle and cap them hot and you should just be able to pour them into the bottling bucket, and wouldn't have to fuss around with boiling/cooling priming sugar. I don't see how this could hurt the flavor at all, as it is the exact same wort that fermented in the first place!

bduane said:

Some of you people are awful edgy, put down the pitchforks!

A guy noticed what he thought was an offtaste and gave his thought/opinion on what might be causing it. Even if he is completely wrong, give em a break! He's trying to be helpful, no need to bring out the guillotine!

I do like the idea of using a couple of bottles of wort to prime with, as long as you figure out the proper quantity it would be pretty easy. Bottle and cap them hot and you should just be able to pour them into the bottling bucket, and wouldn't have to fuss around with boiling/cooling priming sugar. I don't see how this could hurt the flavor at all, as it is the exact same wort that fermented in the first place!

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You sir, hit the nail on the head!

bduane said:

Some of you people are awful edgy, put down the pitchforks!

A guy noticed what he thought was an offtaste and gave his thought/opinion on what might be causing it. Even if he is completely wrong, give em a break! He's trying to be helpful, no need to bring out the guillotine!

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Perhaps trying to be helpful, but his reasoning for the taste he was describing is likely flawed unless the beer is 1-2 weeks old. Trying to sound knowledgeable when giving advice and just being plain wrong isn't helpful, it's just arrogant.

I stopped bottle conditioning becasue I was starting to notice an off flavor that I can only describe as cidery. I never noticed it until I started kegging. Beer from the same batch didn't have the taste when force carbed, only in the bottles. Same flavor was there, but milder when I pirmed a keg. So I just stopped doing it. Thinking back though, I wonder if it wasn't my sugar. I started storing my sugar with my specialty grain in a cooler towards the end there. Maybe it was picking up odor and that was what contributed the flavor? I've been thinking about getting a fresh bag of sugar next time I need supplies and give it another try just out of curiosity.

I noticed a slightly different flavor in the keg than in the bottle on my esb. Keg was force carbed. Don't know if it was "cidery", but the bittles had a slight off flavor that the keg didn't have. I need to keg/bottle a new batch soon, so i'm curious to see if that difference is there again.

BBL_Brewer said:

I stopped bottle conditioning becasue I was starting to notice an off flavor that I can only describe as cidery. I never noticed it until I started kegging. Beer from the same batch didn't have the taste when force carbed, only in the bottles. Same flavor was there, but milder when I pirmed a keg. So I just stopped doing it. Thinking back though, I wonder if it wasn't my sugar. I started storing my sugar with my specialty grain in a cooler towards the end there. Maybe it was picking up odor and that was what contributed the flavor? I've been thinking about getting a fresh bag of sugar next time I need supplies and give it another try just out of curiosity.

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that's exactly how i started noticing it too. my kegged beer never had that flavor, even if i kegged the same recipe, fermented in the same conditions as a beer i'd bottled. i wouldn't call it a cider like flavor in bottles, or even an 'off' flavor at all. it was really just a different flavor. i've been using DME to prime now, to see what the difference between DME and corn sugar is in bottles.

I was going to say where this thread is going for the first half of this, i was thinking that he was just drinking young beer also, i think i can even get green flavors from the help of priming sugar at first few weeks(sometimes and not too often), but like fermentation your yeast yet again goes through the same three stages with priming sugar.Its minute but detectable and i often(almost always) crack one open after a week in the bottleHe would have thought differently of it given a few more weeks and maybe a few in the fridge as well.If the same taste is still there after the first 2- 3 weeks or more maybe of bottle conditioning,its your beer(and very unlikely from you priming sugar taste ) I think its just the effects of the bottleing fermentation that hasnt finished,and will need more conditioning.And you need to learn what caused this like underpitching or temps of fermenting etc.Or its just plain and simply just drinking your beer too young.

This thread sure sprang to life while I was at work today....
Yes the beer is fairly young, 4 weeks.
I guess I'll let it sit a little while longer and see if the taste goes away.

You guys are cruel and honest, I like it!

If its 4 wks botttled that taste shouldnt be there and it is definatly somethig in your process of brewing or ingredients and not your priming sugar.Like ive said some more weeks and throw some in the fridge a few weeks as well and compare them. Im getting another fridge just so i can use my old one to lager or cold conditon alot of my beers, i have a hard time sticking them in my regular fridge because of the high turnover rate of trying them/and commercial craft beer and lack of space to do it.

Came across this recent topic cause I've always been wondering the same thing.

I haven't tried too many brewers homebrews, 3 brewers in total, but I've had at least a couple different beers from each of them and I often think I find a similar characteristic between them that I dont fully enjoy-- i wont go so far as to call it 'a home brew taste' however. I'm about to bottle my first batch so that's why I'm searching this, seeing if there's some way to avoid what I thought I found in their beers.

It's hard to describe but I wouldn't call it 'cidery' as others have, soapy perhaps or a bit of a twang? It is actually more of a mouthfeel I think, which perhaps influences some to perceive it as a flavour. I know it is not a residual sweetness as corn sugar ferments out completely, its always possible its a common trait such as the water source they are using (which should be different since the beers were from different regions).

I'm thinking perhaps it may be the type of carbonation formed by the corn sugar that creates this effect. Simple sugars and complex sugars all ferment differently, is it at all possible these simple and easily fermentable sugars produce a finer (or more dense) carbonation that leads to a different effect on the mouth feel? I know there is some debate whether forced and natural carbonation have the exact same effect on the beer, which from what i've heard, natural carbonation creates a smaller bubble and crisper mouthfeel (such like a champagne bubble). So, is it possible that dependent on the type of sugars that are used to naturally carbonate, there can be a distinction between them (other then non fermentables)?

Sursole, I love my bottle conditioned beer! I don't keg, so I don't have a basis for comparison. I just tried a 2Row/cascades SMaSH tonight that I primed with black forst honey and it's delicious! It was my first time using honey, and I really like what it did!

KayaBrew said:

Your bike shop buddy is full of crap. Let me guess...he's a roadie/triathelete
-or- he rides a fixie -or- he rides a single speed 29er in full spandex. Tell him to get bent and go finish his MGD 64.

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He rides a fixie for sure. No question.