New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

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my latest experience with BS: i brewed a 1.091 all-citra IIPA. wlp007 got me down to 1.024'ish, which was too high (might have worked as an american barleywine but that wasn't what i had in mind). so i used BS to drive down attenuation. i pitched about one and a quarter packs into about 2.5 liters of 1.060 starter, gave it an hour with the stir-bar, then 8 hours without, and pitched into the IIPA.

i would have been happy with 1.012-1.014... but ooooooh not, not with BS: 1.007. that puts me at about 11.8% abv. effing hell.

bottled this past friday (5 days ago). sample tasted great. i didn't detect any alcohol heat and it didn't taste thin.

given how aggro BS is, there is a chance the beer is already carb'ed. i'll give it a taste this weekend.

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the other 3/4 of the second pack went into a saison that 3724 got an OG of 1.061 down to somewhere in the upper 1.020's (don't have my notes with me at the moment). BS got it down to 1.002 (7.9% abv). also bottled last friday. will also give a taste this weekend.

i have lower expectations on this one: it was kept hot on the 3724 cake for too long. i got some autolysis off-flavors from it. that'll teach me to try to get 3724 to finish the job.
 
my latest experience with BS: i brewed a 1.091 all-citra IIPA. wlp007 got me down to 1.024'ish, which was too high (might have worked as an american barleywine but that wasn't what i had in mind). so i used BS to drive down attenuation. i pitched about one and a quarter packs into about 2.5 liters of 1.060 starter, gave it an hour with the stir-bar, then 8 hours without, and pitched into the IIPA.

i would have been happy with 1.012-1.014... but ooooooh not, not with BS: 1.007. that puts me at about 11.8% abv. effing hell.

bottled this past friday (5 days ago). sample tasted great. i didn't detect any alcohol heat and it didn't taste thin.

given how aggro BS is, there is a chance the beer is already carb'ed. i'll give it a taste this weekend.

=========

the other 3/4 of the second pack went into a saison that 3724 got an OG of 1.061 down to somewhere in the upper 1.020's (don't have my notes with me at the moment). BS got it down to 1.002 (7.9% abv). also bottled last friday. will also give a taste this weekend.

i have lower expectations on this one: it was kept hot on the 3724 cake for too long. i got some autolysis off-flavors from it. that'll teach me to try to get 3724 to finish the job.


How did the IIPA turn out? Any saison-y flavor attributes come through or did the BS simply come in and chew the hell out of it?

Also, what was the process with the starter on that? Did you pitch BS starter in secondary and rack on top or add straight to primary?
 
How did the IIPA turn out? Any saison-y flavor attributes come through or did the BS simply come in and chew the hell out of it?
the IIPA is a bit of a mess, frankly. it's entirely drinkable but i wouldn't make it again exactly like this - i would take better care of the fermentation. good learning tho.

there is some saison'y character to it, but there is so much else going on (it's a citra bomb, a touch of autolysis, some alcohol sweetness, etc) that the saison spiciness is muddled in there. had i kept the beer at room temp, instead of heating it up to the upper 70's, i suspect i wouldn't have gotten any saison character.

Also, what was the process with the starter on that? Did you pitch BS starter in secondary and rack on top or add straight to primary?
boiled up 2.5 liters of 1.060'ish starter, an hour with the stir-bar (not longer because i won't want to oxidize it), 8 hours without, and pitched the whole starter into the IIPA in primary. i considered going to secondary but feared the O2 exposure and infection risk. looking back i might have racked because i got a little autolysis from the initial yeast (wlp007). hindsight...

i got a little krausen by day 2, which faded after another few days and from then on out it was a slow burn. took over 2 weeks to finish out.
 
So my first time using this yeast and this is what's happening 2 hours after pitching 1 rehydrated packet in a 1.05 saison:

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Has anyone managed to get a higher final gravity with Belle Saison so it's not so thin? I'm aiming for 1.008 - 1.010. Love the flavours it produces but want a bit more body. Tried adding up to 10% carapils and mashing at a 161 degrees but still get a final gravity of between 1.004 and 1.006. Seems this yeast eats everything including the unfermentables.
 
Has anyone managed to get a higher final gravity with Belle Saison so it's not so thin? I'm aiming for 1.008 - 1.010. Love the flavours it produces but want a bit more body. Tried adding up to 10% carapils and mashing at a 161 degrees but still get a final gravity of between 1.004 and 1.006. Seems this yeast eats everything including the unfermentables.

You could try oats. They'll still convert and ferment but might produce a silkier mouthfeel. I haven't tried this trick yet with Belle, but it works great with other strains.
 
You could try oats. They'll still convert and ferment but might produce a silkier mouthfeel. I haven't tried this trick yet with Belle, but it works great with other strains.
BS already produces a very slick mouthfeel (via glycerol, if i remember correctly).

i'd be concerned that adding oats would amount to turning your beer into a slip-n-slide for your mouth :D
 
BS already produces a very slick mouthfeel (via glycerol, if i remember correctly).

i'd be concerned that adding oats would amount to turning your beer into a slip-n-slide for your mouth :D

I know 3711 produces that slick mouthfeel, but does Belle as well? I'm curious because i'm using Belle for the first time this weekend and I really don't like that 3711 type slickness. I'll sub in sugar if it does!
 
Great look forward to hearing how it tastes. We just did another recipe but put the carapils up to around 15%, see if that works.
 
Brewed this strain six times now. For whatever it's worth my best beer with this yeast was mixing it with Mangrove Jack's French Saison yeast (old Belgian Ale yeast relabelled). Less of a yeasty bite than I had with either by itself.

In my experience, saisons go very very well with American hops, as long as you reign in the IBUs. This strain is so attenuative that it makes the bitterness really scream but a CTZ/Citra dry hop was just beautiful.

Also tend to prefer this strain with 2row over pilsner since it's already more than dry enough for me with 2row.
 
Brewed this strain six times now. For whatever it's worth my best beer with this yeast was mixing it with Mangrove Jack's French Saison yeast (old Belgian Ale yeast relabelled). Less of a yeasty bite than I had with either by itself.

In my experience, saisons go very very well with American hops, as long as you reign in the IBUs. This strain is so attenuative that it makes the bitterness really scream but a CTZ/Citra dry hop was just beautiful.

Also tend to prefer this strain with 2row over pilsner since it's already more than dry enough for me with 2row.

What sort of IBUs are you talking? I just brewed a rye saison with it to 25-30 IBUs.
 
What sort of IBUs are you talking? I just brewed a rye saison with it to 25-30 IBUs.

The one I have right now I calculate to have about 18-20 IBUs which tastes subjectively to have about the same bitterness as a US-05 malty APA with what I calculated to be 30 IBUs.

So that rye saison should taste pretty bitter but shouldn't be a problem if you like IBUs. It's just the one I made with 50 IBUs was really really harsh until I aged it for a few months and I normally have no problem with really hoppy beer.
 
So, I'm brewing a blackcurrant saison with Belle. I made a thread with the recipe on that sub-forum.

Question:
I pitched on Saturday. Five days later, on Thursday, I took a gravity sample, and it's at about 1.005. This is from an OG of about 1.059. I had originally planned to primary for two weeks and then to rack onto fruit for two more. However, if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit or else get it into bottles sooner. (Originally, I had planned on letting it sit in secondary for two weeks as well, but I could also do another week if I rack sooner.) Sound reasonable?

I'm not sure how much it needs to clean up. The sample tastes quite nice. I fermented warm, and the ester profile reminds me of a stronger version of a Hefeweizen plus some saison funkiness.
 
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So, I'm brewing a blackcurrant saison with Belle. I made a thread with the recipe on that sub-forum.

Question:
I pitched on Saturday. Five days later, on Thursday, I took a gravity sample, and it's at about 1.005. This is from an OG of about 1.059. I had originally planned to primary for two weeks and then to rack onto fruit for two more. However, if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit or else get it into bottles sooner. (Originally, I had planned on letting it sit in secondary for two weeks as well, but I could also do another week if I rack sooner.) Sound reasonable?

I'm not sure how much it needs to clean up. The sample tastes quite nice. I fermented warm, and the ester profile reminds me of a stronger version of a Hefeweizen plus some saison funkiness.

Stuff ferments really fast. Keep in mind that gravity might drop a few points more (stuff is insanely attenuative) so the little bit of sweetless still left will be gone, stuff can taste subjectively harsh to me until it ages a while since it doesn't leave much sweetness to balance anything else.

Keep in mind though it won't taste thin, the yeast results in beers that taste WAY fuller than their gravity readings indicate.
 
Stuff ferments really fast. Keep in mind that gravity might drop a few points more (stuff is insanely attenuative) so the little bit of sweetless still left will be gone, stuff can taste subjectively harsh to me until it ages a while since it doesn't leave much sweetness to balance anything else.

Keep in mind though it won't taste thin, the yeast results in beers that taste WAY fuller than their gravity readings indicate.

I agree with all this. Just to be clear, though, I have no complaints about the sample. Tastes like a saison should to me, except warm, flat, and a bit yeasty. Only the ester profile is hefe-ish (think: banana/fruit flavors). The body is more like a saison. The thought was: as-is, without the fruit additions, it's drinkable now, so I wasn't sure how much it would benefit from aging in its present state vs. in secondary with additions.
 
I haven't added anything to this thread in a while bit saw it pop up on my replies just now.
Since I last posted something I have used it for a nice Cali-belgique clone.

The associated thread is here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7809879#post7809879

I must admit from the 3 times I have brewed with it the beer really improves with ageing.
 
So, I'm brewing a blackcurrant saison with Belle. I made a thread with the recipe on that sub-forum.

Question:
I pitched on Saturday. Five days later, on Thursday, I took a gravity sample, and it's at about 1.005. This is from an OG of about 1.059. I had originally planned to primary for two weeks and then to rack onto fruit for two more. However, if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit or else get it into bottles sooner. (Originally, I had planned on letting it sit in secondary for two weeks as well, but I could also do another week if I rack sooner.) Sound reasonable?

I'm not sure how much it needs to clean up. The sample tastes quite nice. I fermented warm, and the ester profile reminds me of a stronger version of a Hefeweizen plus some saison funkiness.


Yeah, it's done. Especially since you're doing a fruit secondary I'd just move to the next step, no real reason to wait unless you want to reuse the yeast cake and want to wait to rack the beer off.
 
Interesting anecdote: I drank the last bottle of that blackcurrant saison a few days ago, and I thought: "Man, I'd sure like to use this yeast again without paying for it." So I made up a starter and dumped in my flask, stuck in on the stir plate, and pitched the dregs, hoping something would come of it. 24 hours later, I started seeing krausen. 36 hours later, the 2 liter flask overflowed.

Even in the afterlife, Belle is a beast. I look forward to harvesting the yeast, storing it, and having a petit saison in a few months. Bonsoir!
 
I'm a newbie to Belle Saison but the part that baffles me is the different flavors based on fermentation temps.
 
I recently fermented a rye saison at 68*F was the warmest i could get it at the time and it was definitely too clean, next shot i will try at least 75*F
 
Same here. Brewed an Apricot Saison. In fermenter at 4:30pm and fermenting away at 8pm! I had never used this one before. Used one pack on the recommendation of fellow brewer.
 
I was going to brew a saison w/ Belle this weekend, but the weather turned cold and will stay cool for a while.
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The whole point of buying a packet of Belle Saison was so I could brew in hot weather.

So I decided to brew a wheat beer instead; bought the ingredients and that's as far as I got. Maybe (probably) next weekend.

I did get some apple wine bottled, and started 3 gallons of Skeeter Pee.
 
I have a summer Saison just finishing primary now. Simple grain bill, simple hop additions, a little lemon zest and coriander, and Belle. She's fermenting comfortably at 80 in the garage. The smell out of the airlock is pretty great. I've been tho king of trying a Saison with this at the hot high range after reading through the thread.
 
this sounds pretty good, I think I'm going to start brewing some of these Saison's in order to cope with the summer heat.
 
Just brewed up my first attempt at Saison using (roughly) this recipe:

60% Pilsner Malt (Belgian)
17.5% Vienna Malt
17.5% Flaked Wheat
5% Flaked Oats

Small amount of Magnum to bitter, Saaz + Willamette at 15 minutes, and another, slightly large dose of hops at 3 minutes, which was a weird--but delightful smelling--mix of leftovers: Saaz + Willamette + Styrian Goldings + Cascade. Added a bit of dried orange peel too. OG = 1.054. Best smelling wort I've ever brewed!

Added a packet of rehydrated Belle Saison and it took off like a shot. Steady bubbling at 6 hours, thick krausen and furious bubbling at 18 hours, slightly thinner krausen but still ripping when I left for work this morning. I'm going to leave it at 68 F (ambient) for one more day and then let it warm up to whatever room temp is in our apartment (I'm guessing ~75 F).
 
Hello guys!!

I have the intention to mix this strain with Bavarian Wheat of Mangrove's Jack. And ferment at 30C half sachet of Bavarian Wheat and Half of Belle Saison. What do you guys think about this?
 
I have the intention to mix this strain with Bavarian Wheat of Mangrove's Jack. And ferment at 30C half sachet of Bavarian Wheat and Half of Belle Saison.
30*C seems too high to me, at least as a starting temp. personally, i wouldn't pitch any higher than 21*C, then ramp up from there over a few days to eventually hit 30*C. i would be concerned that starting at 30*C could result in fusels and other undesirables.
 
Hello guys!!

I have the intention to mix this strain with Bavarian Wheat of Mangrove's Jack. And ferment at 30C half sachet of Bavarian Wheat and Half of Belle Saison. What do you guys think about this?

I tried something similar once. As I recall, I only got the saison characteristics. In other words, I think the Belle Saison will dominate. It might work better to start with the wheat yeast for a day or two and then add the saison. I would start this lower and then ramp up the temperature when you add the saison.
 
At our brewery we regularly use Belle Saison for one of our main beers and find that a temperature between 24 and 26 brings out the best characteristics. Have found that going too low can leave you lacking in Saison flavour and fruitiness.
 
I tried something similar once. As I recall, I only got the saison characteristics. In other words, I think the Belle Saison will dominate. It might work better to start with the wheat yeast for a day or two and then add the saison. I would start this lower and then ramp up the temperature when you add the saison.

You mean do it in steps, first the Bavarian yeast for 2 days then the Belle saison? I will try to keep it at 24c. is that lowest i can go. i don't have temperature control. Then i can go up to 30C.

Is it ok to go half sachet of Bavarian wheat and half sachet of Belle saison? Or should i go with the entire sachet?
 
You mean do it in steps, first the Bavarian yeast for 2 days then the Belle saison? I will try to keep it at 24c. is that lowest i can go. i don't have temperature control. Then i can go up to 30C.

Is it ok to go half sachet of Bavarian wheat and half sachet of Belle saison? Or should i go with the entire sachet?

Yes. Add on stages. In theory, this should get you more of the hefe flavor, but allow the saison yeast to finish the beer dry.

Interesting question. The danger in pitching a half packet would be that the yeast would not be able to out compete bacteria or wild yeast. Under pitching is also thought to increase yeast flavor production. Some people intentionally under pitch hefeweizens in order to get *more* clove and banana. Also, most packets of dry yeast are over pitches for moderate OG beers anyway. All said, i wouldn't do it to save money. I would only do it if I felt the potential flavor benefits were worth the risk of contamination. For me, I'd be willing to take the risk for the sake of the experiment, but I leave it to you to decide for yourself.
 
Yes. Add on stages. In theory, this should get you more of the hefe flavor, but allow the saison yeast to finish the beer dry.

Interesting question. The danger in pitching a half packet would be that the yeast would not be able to out compete bacteria or wild yeast. Under pitching is also thought to increase yeast flavor production. Some people intentionally under pitch hefeweizens in order to get *more* clove and banana. Also, most packets of dry yeast are over pitches for moderate OG beers anyway. All said, i wouldn't do it to save money. I would only do it if I felt the potential flavor benefits were worth the risk of contamination. For me, I'd be willing to take the risk for the sake of the experiment, but I leave it to you to decide for yourself.

Actually my OG is pretty low: 1.035 so I think 5g of yeast is ok. Besides I will still have the other 5g of the Belle Saison. I just didn't want the Bavarian wheat to eat all the fermentables. And let some to the Belle Saison
 
Living in northern Michigan I had used WLP 565 and 3711 many times, but at cooler temps and wasn't too overly impressed with anything about them. I live in South Texas now. I did a few high gravity saisons for the holidays recently and checked my notes:

Beer 1- 10/30/2017 Sprinkled 1 pack dry Belle Saison to wort(1.052)
11/01/2017 1.010 added 2.5lbs sugar -----> 1.030 (new OG ~1.070)
11/05/2017 1.002 still active signs of fermentation, wow!

Beer 2- 11/01/2017 Sprinkled 1 pack Belle Saison onto wort(1.040)
11/03/2017 1.004 added 3.5lbs sugar ---->1.030 (new OG ~1.067)
11/05/2017 1.000! Still signs of active fermentation!

These are fermenting in my garage that goes between low 70's to low 90's. Both smell great, no off flavors in the warm samples that I tasted. The second beer will be getting some fruit.
 
If its a real Saison strain, think hot. If you want to go 80's and even low 90's, do it. True Saisons fermented like protected and coddled American ale's are going to be boring, very lacking, or just plain wrong. They simply wont have the flavor and aroma profile they should. If its something other than the old Belgian/French farmhouse strains, best to follow their directions.

I recently split a batch between 3711 and cultured dregs from Saison Dupont. The 3711 was good, but the Dupont was far superior. Fermented in the high 80's and both ended at about 1.003 (from 1.054).
 
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