Good source for non-GMO grains
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ShortSnoutBrewing
Kwanesum Chinook Illahee
Seven Bridges in CA is an option. Our local LHBS carries organic options, but they are limited.
http://www.breworganic.com/
http://www.breworganic.com/
ArcaneXor
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Seven Bridges comes to mind (though I've never ordered from them).
Many European malts are probably GMO-free, just because the public over there is a lot more sensitive to GMO products. Weyermann, for instance, is GMO-free. Organic malts are more expensive, but most homebrew stores should be able to order them for you.
Many European malts are probably GMO-free, just because the public over there is a lot more sensitive to GMO products. Weyermann, for instance, is GMO-free. Organic malts are more expensive, but most homebrew stores should be able to order them for you.
SumnerH
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It's definitely something worth thinking about, especially when it comes to big agribusiness-patented strains. On the other hand, it's also worth considering the alternatives a bit before getting too militant:
Weyermann's barley, like all used in brewing, is genetically modified. The fact that an old, slower technique of altering the genes (selective breeding) was used doesn't change the fact that the genetic makeup of modern crop strains is vastly different from that of "natural" barley, and differs in ways determined by humans.
Selectively bred crops suffer from many of the same problems that crops which use more modern GM techniques use (e.g. lack of genetic diversity, susceptibility to disease, etc) and also provide many of the same benefits (greater yields, better flavor/appearance/etc, resistance to certain diseases, etc). See, for instance, the sudden almost-disappearance of the Gros Michel banana, or compare the ability of the chihuahua to survive in the wild with that of the gray wolf.
For an instructive look at the history and ongoing struggles of agriculture modified through selective breeding, read: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2005-06/can-fruit-be-saved
Point being, "GM food" really is all the food we eat. The real focus should be on why and how GM is being done and who controls the results, not just a blanket "everything that's not in the state it would be in without human alteration is bad".
SumnerH. I understand your point however selective breeding of genetic traits and transgenic modification are completely different. GMO foods have genes from other organisms or use recombinent DNA technologies to create a new set of genes that is transferred to a species. This could never happen in nature because different species are not capable of producing fertile hybrids. Selective breeding is isolating traits that are expressed through natural genetic variation within a species.
Man selecting for food crops based on phenotypic traits and breeding them true is a natural process that can occur through evolution without man made intervention (genetic drift, geographic isolation of small populations)
Man selecting for food crops based on phenotypic traits and breeding them true is a natural process that can occur through evolution without man made intervention (genetic drift, geographic isolation of small populations)
Thanks for the info on seven bridges, I'm also going to shoot Weyermann an email and see if all the grain is GMO free.
I'm all for vigorous high yielding barley. But throw Bt gene in there or round-up resistance and things ain't sounding so good.
I'm all for vigorous high yielding barley. But throw Bt gene in there or round-up resistance and things ain't sounding so good.
SumnerH
Well-Known Member
That's not really true, though. You don't have to be able to create fertile hybrids in order to get horizontal gene transfer.
Indeed, if you care about brewing most kinds of beer then you'd better be okay with it; Saccharomyces cerevisiae is one of the model organisms studied when discussing natural horizontal gene transfer--it was created essentially by splicing bacterial DNA into other yeast strains. That it happened to come about in the wild doesn't make it any less of a transgenic splice than one done in the lab.
See, for instance, http://ec.asm.org/cgi/content/full/4/6/1102
Well you first then, drink up all that rBGH, use plenty of organophosphates in the yard and on food crops. Hopefully some bacteria in your gut with transfer genes in commensal relationship with the your epithelial cells or endocrine receptors in your brain and you can spontaneously mutate to fit this new ecological niche of loads of hormones and estrogen mimics. This is exactly the same as Saccharomyces cerevisiae adapting to survive in sulfur rich environments through gene transfer from bacteria billions of years ago.
Its not that all breeding or genetic transfer is bad, its about weighing consequences and impacts. Allowing barley beta-amylase to survive higher temps through genetic manipulation ok fine, engineering food crops to resist loads of pesticides,well... you get the point, maybe not.
Its not that all breeding or genetic transfer is bad, its about weighing consequences and impacts. Allowing barley beta-amylase to survive higher temps through genetic manipulation ok fine, engineering food crops to resist loads of pesticides,well... you get the point, maybe not.
There is a hugh difference between organic and non GMO. While it is nearly impossible (I can't think of a way that it would work) to be organic and use GMO, it is possible, and up to not that long ago, be a non organic non GMO farmer. And as far as organic goes, there are some, though very few, sythetic chemicals that are allowed to be used in orgainc farming.
Also, as far as I know, there are no GMO barleys, oats, rye, and there is only one semi GMO wheat variety, and it will never be used in malting, it is a variety preserved crop, like Amarillo hops, and must be contracted and has special end use destinations.
Sorry, after reading my responce, there are no selective chemical resistant grains, like there are for soybeans and canola. There is one that has passed all the testing and is in limited use. As stated, if you are trying to totally avoid genetically modified foods, it would be very hard to do, nearly everything has been manipulated for one reason or another, including organic grains.
Also, as far as I know, there are no GMO barleys, oats, rye, and there is only one semi GMO wheat variety, and it will never be used in malting, it is a variety preserved crop, like Amarillo hops, and must be contracted and has special end use destinations.
Sorry, after reading my responce, there are no selective chemical resistant grains, like there are for soybeans and canola. There is one that has passed all the testing and is in limited use. As stated, if you are trying to totally avoid genetically modified foods, it would be very hard to do, nearly everything has been manipulated for one reason or another, including organic grains.
SumnerH
Well-Known Member
Unless you are using corn, canola or soybeans in your beer, you will not be able to find any GMO grains.
However, GMO barley is on its way. But the mod is transferring fungal resistance from wild strains of barley to cultivated ones.
However, GMO barley is on its way. But the mod is transferring fungal resistance from wild strains of barley to cultivated ones.
EricCSU
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Both brewmaster's warehouse and Northern Brewer have a decent selection of Briess organic grains. Just go to their site and type "organic" in the search.
Eric
Eric
StMarcos
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http://barleyworld.org/maltingandbrewing.php
Click on 'what's your barley.' Guy confirms there isn't any GMO barley 'yet.'
Click on 'what's your barley.' Guy confirms there isn't any GMO barley 'yet.'
KeithMoonsLiver
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screw world hunger, lets go back to 15th century agricultural practices, it's more natural
Sure we could do that, as long as you are willing to pay $10 for a loaf of bread, and your case of beer runs into the hundreds of dollars. The only reason that food prices are the way they are right now is modern farming has increased yeilds to keep up with demand. The average wheat yeild now is in the 50 bu./acre, where in the 1500's it might have got 10bu./acre on a good year. Also, the mechinization of the modern farm allows for larger farms being managed in short amounts of time. Unless you and 50 of your friends are willing to quit your jobs and take up farming full time, there is no way this can be done.
ArcaneXor
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I think he was being sarcastic.
Yes, I got the sarcasm. I was just pointing out that there are several advantages to the farming practices that are being used in the modern world, for those that would seriously like things done as they were 500 years ago.
alastairblake
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Cfuggles, did you ever find a favored source for organic/nonGMO/maybe low gluten malt?
Anyone know a good place to buy organic grains and hops? I'm trying to wean myself off the monsanto monster! Nature never intended for dancing bananas !
Ltkenbo
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Lol this thread is nearly 8 years old, and based on their profile it appears that was the last time Cfuggles was active.
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Bill Nye has a new show on Netflix, dedicates an episode to GMO foods. Worth watching. And now I am out before another flame war erupts.
trav77
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There is no commercial production of GMO barley or wheat, so whatever your take on the issue is, you're in the clear. If you're looking for organic, there are plenty of malt houses that produce organic malt these days and you should be able to find them at any of the larger online retailers. Personally I'm way more comfortable with the pesticides used on non-organic crops than I am with some of the relatively toxic stuff that's still permitted on organics, but that's a personal decision.
I know both Breiss and Gambinus maltsters sell some organic malts.
NickTheGreat
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But what about the GMO gluten that farmers spray on their crops?
trav77
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Oh that's just a big-ag corporate conspiracy in an attempt to kill Gwyneth Paltrow through accidental ingestion.
I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else here about GMO or organic issues. That's probably a better topic for the debate forum than here. Lets keep this on topic - where to find malts that are gmo free or certified organic.
Farmers don't spray their crops with gluten; the government does. What do you think those Chemtrails are for?
spddmn6
I love the smell of mash in the morning.
Head retentionFarmers don't spray their crops with gluten; the government does. What do you think those Chemtrails are for?
I like Bill Nye, but I couldn't get past the first episode of his new show. It's a bit preachy and the "interview" section seemed very one sided. Maybe it got better after the first one.
@BeerChemistWhiskey I really enjoyed Bill Nye when I was younger. I like that he is trying to tackle some topics that have become controversial. But he really needs to figure out who his audience is. Right now it feels to me like he can't decide between people who are on the fence but curious and open to listening, or people who have made up their minds and agree with him. Either way there is some good (not necessarily great, but certainly accurate) info there, but the approach feels off. I learned something from the episodes I watched, but it wasn't anything extraordinary.
I haven't seen the most recent episodes. Will have to see what topics he tackles.
I haven't seen the most recent episodes. Will have to see what topics he tackles.
ryanryates
Well-Known Member
Highly suggest: https://gmoanswers.com. Helped me understand the facts when I had questions. Like most information shared today, it turns out a lot of bad information is spread about this topic on social media and the internet.
Also, if you have Hulu - I watched a great film called Food Evolution the other day.
Also, if you have Hulu - I watched a great film called Food Evolution the other day.
Yep, they’ll make you feel better about GMOs.
Who Funds GMO Answers?
GMO Answers is funded by the members of The Council for Biotechnology Information, which includes BASF, Bayer, Dow AgroSciences, DuPont, Monsanto Company and Syngenta.
The independent experts who answer consumer questions are not paid by GMO Answers to answer questions. Experts donate their time to answer questions in their area of expertise for the website. They do so because they are passionate about helping the public better understand GMOs and how our food is grown.
On occasion, independent experts participate in speaking or media opportunities on behalf of GMO Answers. In these instances, GMO Answers will reimburse for the travel expenses incurred by the expert.
Doesn't mean they're wrong.
Sometimes a company will make a site like this to cause doubt about others who say that their product is unsafe or bad somehow. Ever watch Merchants of Doubt?
But sometimes a company makes something that they have good reason to be proud of and for whatever reason it is met with skepticism by the public, so they need to get the word out there that the product is actually good.
Just because a person or group is biased doesn't mean they can't be credible.
At risk of starting another argument, one could compare it to vaccines. Drug / pharmaceutical companies want to sell vaccines, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them when they tell you that vaccines are safe.
Go out there, research the subject through peer-reviewed articles in publications with a strong reputations. See what you find.
spddmn6
I love the smell of mash in the morning.
Rogue has a line of organic beers, you may be able to find where they are sourcing ingredients.
