My Belgian Golden Strong tastes awful at 16 weeks.

Hey guys, so I brewed up a Belgian Golden Strong Ale exactly 16 weeks ago. It is a slightly modified version of Northern Brewers BGS which states being ready in 4 months. I brewed the beer on 10/9/12, gave it 7 weeks in the primary (carboy) and then racked to bottles. My OG was 1.078 with a FG of 1.008, making it 9.2% abv. The bottles are pretty much carbed fully its just that it is either very green or just straight up bad. I am wondering if this is normal for the style at this point in the process and what should I expect to happen in the following few months. I was hoping this beer would be ready by now but it seems to be not even close Hoping anyone with insight will chime in, it would be greatly appreciated!

Here is the recipe for reference:

Belgian Golden Strong Ale (6 gallons)

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
14 lbs 7.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 82.8 %
4.8 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2 1.7 %
4.8 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 1.7 %
1.25 oz Saaz [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 24.0 IBUs
1.25 oz Saaz [8.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 11.9 IBUs
2 lbs 6.4 oz Candi Sugar, Clear [Boil for 10 min](0.5 SRM) Sugar 6 13.8 %
1.0 pkg Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast Labs #1388) [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.078
Est Final Gravity: 1.008
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.3 %
Bitterness: 35.9 IBUs
Est Color: 4.8 SRM

Define "awful tasting."

Fermentation temp?
Did you make a starter?
Did you aerate the wort before pitching?

Recipe looks good.

I wish I could go back and take better notes on what flavors I was experiencing, I was just bummed and poured it out after like 5 sips. I will say that it definitely tasted "green" with some weird flavors in the foreground that seem like they should fade and allow the beer to become a dry spicy beer. but at the moment the beer is far from dry and spicy. I sort of remember there being an odd grainy-type flavor that didnt seem to belong either but I have never brewed this style before, so what do I know?

I let the fermentation climb to about 70-72 degrees and I ALWAYS aerate no matter what and make a starter when using liquid yeast. I am drinking a saison right now that I treated very similarly and it is great.

Bisco_Ben said:

I let the fermentation climb to about 70-72 degrees and I ALWAYS aerate no matter what and make a starter when using liquid yeast.

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Well that sounds about perfect. Huh.

What temperature should I be bottle-conditioning these bad boys at? I will take a temperature reading in a minute of what my closet is at, but I remember reading that belgian breweries have "warm-rooms" to facilitate better bottle-conditioning. Maybe it isnt warm enough in my room?

This may sound wierd, but have you had any other brews of this style? Belgians can sometimes have flavors that are much different than other beers. Some people just do not like the flavor. Your recipe does not indicate anything that would make a wierd tasting brew. At this age it should be very drinkable.

beergolf said:

This may sound wierd, but have you had any other brews of this style? Belgians can sometimes have flavors that are much different than other beers. Some people just do not like the flavor. Your recipe does not indicate anything that would make a wierd tasting brew. At this age it should be very drinkable.

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This,
I agree completely, if you have never had one they can certainly be funky and down rite nasty if you don't know what to expect.

Everything you did is in line with a proper recipe and process for sure!

Thanks for the input guys. I havent really emerged myself into the style yet and probably need to try a few commercial examples, so maybe I dont know what to expect. Should I just go get myself a bottle of Duvel or something and compare?

Also, I did not "lager" this batch at all and have read that this can be a necessary step for these sorts of beers? Could that be the culprit of off flavors?

You mentioned you left it in the primary for a while. Does the recipe call for leaving it in the primary for that long? I had a batch that I left sitting for 2 weeks before I went on vaca and it ended up tasting awful. Also I brewed a Belgian triple and that got better as it aged (after bottling), after about a month it was delicious, no off flavors

Bisco_Ben said:

Also, I did not "lager" this batch at all and have read that this can be a necessary step for these sorts of beers? Could that be the culprit of off flavors?

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Not really necessary and 7 weeks in the primary will not cause off flavors. I leave mine 5-8 weeks all the time.

Should I just go get myself a bottle of Duvel or something and compare?

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That might be a good idea. 1388 is supposed to be the yeast that is used in Duvel. Belgian beers derive a lot of their flavor from the yeast used. Each yeast has a very individual flavor.

robinmo said:

You mentioned you left it in the primary for a while. Does the recipe call for leaving it in the primary for that long? I had a batch that I left sitting for 2 weeks before I went on vaca and it ended up tasting awful.

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A long primary will not hurt anything. If you had a batch with a long primary that ended up bad, it would have ended up bad no matter what. Either you had an infection or a bad recipe.

beergolf said:

Not really necessary and 7 weeks in the primary will not cause off flavors. I leave mine 5-8 weeks all the time.

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I've disagreed with Beergolf on this one before and so I will again. :cross:

Lagering is essential to the style!

Did you do a 90 minute boil with all that pils?

I've disagreed with Beergolf on this one before and so I will again.

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It is fine to have another point of view. I agree that there some that believe that lagering a beer in this style will SLIGHTLY improve the flavor. I usually do leave my Belgians in the fridge for a couple of weeks before drinking them, so you could almost call it a pseudo lager, but I don't always do that.

However, go back to what the OP stated. He had his beer in the fermenter for 7 weeks and in bottles for 9 weeks. He also stated that the taste was so bad he poured it out after just 5 sips.

His recipe and fermentation schedule would not produce a beer so bad he had to spit it out after five sips just because he did not lager the brew. The lagering step may be a fine tuning step for someone trying to improve a brew, but there is no way that because it was not lagered it would make it undrinkable. That is just misleading the OP.

beergolf said:

It is fine to have another point of view. I agree that there some that believe that lagering a beer in this style will SLIGHTLY improve the flavor. I usually do leave my Belgians in the fridge for a couple of weeks before drinking them, so you could almost call it a pseudo lager, but I don't always do that.

However, go back to what the OP stated. He had his beer in the fermenter for 7 weeks and in bottles for 9 weeks. He also stated that the taste was so bad he poured it out after just 5 sips.

His recipe and fermentation schedule would not produce a beer so bad he had to spit it out after five sips just because he did not lager the brew. The lagering step may be a fine tuning step for someone trying to improve a brew, but there is no way that because it was not lagered it would make it undrinkable. That is just misleading the OP.

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I completely disagree.

@zachattack, I absolutely did a 90 minute boil. Not only because of the pils but when I do big beers I like to do 90 minute boils to help with efficiency. From here on out I am going to take a 6 pack and stick it someplace that will get it to around 75 degrees for a week. Then I will put that sixer in the fridge and have the first bottle after a week in the fridge. Maybe this will make a difference? Also going to grab a bottle of duvel to try in the meantime to see what this style should be all about.

Bisco_Ben said:

Thanks for the input guys. I havent really emerged myself into the style yet and probably need to try a few commercial examples, so maybe I dont know what to expect. Should I just go get myself a bottle of Duvel or something and compare?

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Yes go get yourself a Duvel. It's probably the best example of the style and is absolutely flawless in my opinion. One of my all time favorites.

TNGabe said:

I completely disagree.

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I hope you are kidding...

Do you really think that lagering a brew will take it from spit it out after five sips to ...... mmm this is good.

beergolf said:

It is fine to have another point of view. I agree that there some that believe that lagering a beer in this style will SLIGHTLY improve the flavor. I usually do leave my Belgians in the fridge for a couple of weeks before drinking them, so you could almost call it a pseudo lager, but I don't always do that.

However, go back to what the OP stated. He had his beer in the fermenter for 7 weeks and in bottles for 9 weeks. He also stated that the taste was so bad he poured it out after just 5 sips.

His recipe and fermentation schedule would not produce a beer so bad he had to spit it out after five sips just because he did not lager the brew. The lagering step may be a fine tuning step for someone trying to improve a brew, but there is no way that because it was not lagered it would make it undrinkable. That is just misleading the OP.

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I agree. Recently brewed a Belgian Golden Strong and it was great! Never lagered it.
Took forever to age and carb, though.

The OP said that they are carbed up so taking a 6 pack and getting it warm shouldn't help the matter of taste. From what I understand the warmer temps are to help the yeast out since the beer is pretty high gravity by the time it is bottled.

Too bad there isn't a better description of the taste. That would help out a lot in figuring out what went wrong.

I love Belgian beers and enjoy brewing them. I had some turn out pretty bad till I got the kinks worked out. I used to have a problem with them having an unpleasant bitter taste till I started treating my brew water with campden tabs for example.

A Belgian golden I brewed many months ago was, like you describe, undrinkable after an extended secondary and 4 weeks in the bottle. After a few extra months in the bottle (probably 6) it is now quite good.

Don't lose hope.

beergolf said:

I hope you are kidding...

Do you really think that lagering a brew will take it from spit it out after five sips to ...... mmm this is good.

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I agree. This style is about all I brew and everything mentioned in the process and recipe checks out. Cold crashing, lagering, etc will clarify it and smooth it, but it should be good to go as is.

I will say though that I had one beer that was so harsh (tannic), I dropped gelatin in it and crashed it for a week and it cleaned up astonishingly.

Just to update, I feel as though the beer wasnt as carbed as it could have been considering I aimed for almost 3.0 vols (I forgot how high I was aiming for), so I may now feel that I wasnt aging them warm enough? My closet is at 72 degrees but I feel like I may be having the same sort of scenario that tastysalmon seems to have gone through. I personally cant believe that a beer would take this long to carb up and condition but I am not completely familiar with belgian strains. I will absolutely update you guys as the beers progress. Wish me luck!

ALRIGHT, time for an update. So I am sitting here sipping on a bottle of it now, which makes it 21 weeks old. It has definitely improved a bit, and the aroma is pretty close to what i would expect from a BGS. However, the beers flavor is a little bit too sweet for what i would expect and desire. I can even still smell some of of that sweetness in the aroma as well, but less so than last time I sampled a bottle. Was my final gravity of 1.008 low enough? Or would that be the reason this beer is coming off as too sweet, and not dry enough? The beer also seems like it is only about 80-85% done carbing up, so maybe there is still some unfermented priming sugar left. I am hoping that this is the reason for being overly sweet/not dry enough, but I just cant imagine a beer taking this long to condition.

TNGabe said:

I completely disagree.

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Lagering your beer is going to do two things. Age it, and promote clarity. Beer conditions best at around 50 degrees. Yeast will drop out faster under 50, but the beer will age slower. At room temperature, beer ages faster but the aging process is supposedly less graceful. I haven't really noticed much of a difference. I just age at 60 degrees in my cellar. Lagering is not required for Belgian beers.

The only beers that should REQUIRE aging are higher gravity beers with a high amount of darker specialty grains. Golden strong does not fit that bill. No offense, OP, but either something went wrong in your process or your beer actually tastes fine. A properly brewed golden strong should be good to go after about two months from brew date. After about six months, its flavor will actually begin to worsen as the IBUs fade and the beer becomes imbalanced.

If your beer is tasting too sweet, use more hops. 1.008 is not particularly dry for a golden strong, but a lot of times it can be difficult to achieve a lower gravity. I usually bitter all my high gravity Belgian ales just a little higher than the style guidelines, because I think it just works better.

@rexbanner, after realizing I needed to input my own brew-setup stats into beersmith, my ibus have now been recalculated to 42 ibus. This is very high for the style, so I am going to assume that this is not what is causing it to seem overly sweet. I wish I knew a certified beer judge or something of the sort so that i could get a good analysis of what is off, considering i dont have the best understanding of the style.

Do you know how many volumes of CO2 you have? For such a simple, yet big beer you want to have as much carbonation as you can cram into that bottle.

@PhelanKA7, I was just coming back to bring that up. I just did the math, and for what I put in I should be at 2.6-2.7 vols. I used 5.8 ozs of dextrose for roughly 5.5 gallons of beer that eventually reached 72-73 (maybe 75) degrees. Would this be enough? or should I have aimed higher like around 3 vols?

rexbanner said:

Lagering is not required for Belgian beers.

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Making a broad generalization is usually a good way to be wrong and I didn't say anything ridiculous like 'all Belgian style ales need to be lagered'. There is no other style so completely defined by one beer as BSGA is defined by Duvel. Duvel is lagered, so I'd say this style requires lagering, but I know I won't convince you of anything here.

Bisco_Ben said:

@PhelanKA7, I was just coming back to bring that up. I just did the math, and for what I put in I should be at 2.6-2.7 vols. I used 5.8 ozs of dextrose for roughly 5.5 gallons of beer that eventually reached 72-73 (maybe 75) degrees. Would this be enough? or should I have aimed higher like around 3 vols?

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3.3 is what the NB priming calculator says. As to 1.008 being to sweet, I'd say yes. I'd want 1.005.

Crap, so if this beer never quite carbs up to where I would like it to be, is there anything I can do about that? I am going to be pretty bummed if this beer is ruined.

Bisco_Ben said:

Crap, so if this beer never quite carbs up to where I would like it to be, is there anything I can do about that? I am going to be pretty bummed if this beer is ruined.

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Dude, you're a glass half empty kinda guy! After the way you were talking about this beer when you first posted, being a dissapointed that it's undercarbed and not quite dry enough is pretty good.

haha its better to look at things that way, thats for sure. Just thinking of the time money and effort put into these bad boys, just to have them come out pretty subpar. I guess its drinkable so not all is lost but still hoping that some more age does the beer well.

Bisco_Ben said:

haha its better to look at things that way, thats for sure. Just thinking of the time money and effort put into these bad boys, just to have them come out pretty subpar. I guess its drinkable so not all is lost but still hoping that some more age does the beer well.

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Have you brewed other pale beers that you were happy with? Maybe your water is the problem?

Two questions.
1. What was your mash schedule/temps?
2. What was your water source?

Just throwin some stuff out there.

Bisco_Ben said:

@PhelanKA7, I was just coming back to bring that up. I just did the math, and for what I put in I should be at 2.6-2.7 vols. I used 5.8 ozs of dextrose for roughly 5.5 gallons of beer that eventually reached 72-73 (maybe 75) degrees. Would this be enough? or should I have aimed higher like around 3 vols?

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3.5+ volumes is what I would shoot for with this style. I think this is where you could have made the most improvement. Higher carbonation means more carbonic acid which reduces the cloying sweetness, which I assume is where these "green beer flavors" are coming from.

I still have 50 bottles of this stuff, is there anyway I could add accurately add more carbonation? Slowly transfer to a keg maybe?

Bisco_Ben said:

I still have 50 bottles of this stuff, is there anyway I could add accurately add more carbonation? Slowly transfer to a keg maybe?

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I don't see why not. If excessive splashing occurs you might see some oxidation flavors after 4-5 months but I think I've heard of people transferring poorly carbed bottles to kegs before and having success. I never keg so I am not an expert on the subject though.