Canning Wort for Starters

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tlazaroff

tlazaroff

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Hi all.
I had a question in which search didn't pull any information on. I am curious about canning wort for using in starters at a later date. I know when you can fruits and such, it stays preserved for up to a year. I was wondering if there are any special steps needed to take when canning wort, or if it's done the same way.

I plan to make a large 4-gallon batch of wort for use in starters, then can it in 1-liter segments so I can make 1 to 2 liter starters at anytime during the year. I figure it saves time doing it this way.

Any insight would be great!

-Tim
 
You need a pressure canner. Just make some 1.040 wort and can it in quart jars. It must be canned @ 15 psi for 15 minutes.
 
EdWort said:
You need a pressure canner. Just make some 1.040 wort and can it in quart jars. It must be canned @ 15 psi for 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

Great, thats what I was going to do anyway. Thanks for the confirmation, and thanks for the quick reply.
 
Carter1932 said:
I've got canned wort from 1995, guess I could toss it out now, still looks good though.
Click to expand...

If it's still sealed it should be good. As long it's not contaminated, yeast don't care what it tastes like.

How is it that you still have canned wort that old? Sounds like you've been slacking on the job :D
 
I once had extra wort from a mash and froze it in two 1 quart mason jars. Unfortunately I didn't leave headroom and the jars cracked and I tossed them.

I used to use my pressure cooker as my brew kettle, so it wasn't possible to sterilize them that day.
 
BBL_Brewer said:
If it's still sealed it should be good. As long it's not contaminated, yeast don't care what it tastes like.

How is it that you still have canned wort that old? Sounds like you've been slacking on the job :D
Click to expand...

Yes, it is definitely viable.

I'm not slacking (brewed 40 gallons last month :rockin:) just never ended up feeling the need to use it so it has been sitting in cellar all this time ignored. When I canned it I was really just doing it to try a different method, but later decided it wasn't really worth the extra effort when a small amount DME can be prepped in 10 minutes. The real reason to pursue this method would be to save money on DME, which was probably my thought at the time.

I also canned some grist at the same time, but I can not recall what I ever intended to so with it, maybe I intended to produce low gravity wort with it, dunno.
 
Carter1932 said:
it wasn't really worth the extra effort when a small amount DME can be prepped in 10 minutes. .
Click to expand...

I'd like to see a DME starter be weighed out, put in a flask, water added, boiled for 10 minutes and cooled to room temperature for yeast to be pitched in 10 minutes. :D

I love popping off the lid of a jar of canned 1.040 wort without all the prep work, cooking and cooling when I want to make or step up a starter.

Canning Wort starters saves serious time and money if you can All Grain Wort. The convenience is amazing.
 
EdWort said:
You need a pressure canner. Just make some 1.040 wort and can it in quart jars. It must be canned @ 15 psi for 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

Pressure cooking it - that is interesting. I didn't think that it would be required. Is it because it is low in acidity? I am curious to know the science behind needing to pressure cook if anyone knows.
Thanks,
:mug:
 
smpow said:
Pressure cooking it - that is interesting. I didn't think that it would be required. Is it because it is low in acidity? I am curious to know the science behind needing to pressure cook if anyone knows.
Thanks,
:mug:
Click to expand...

Yep. Low acidity is the reason. Water bath canning will not work.
 
EdWort said:
I'd like to see a DME starter be weighed out, put in a flask, water added, boiled for 10 minutes and cooled to room temperature for yeast to be pitched in 10 minutes. :D

I love popping off the lid of a jar of canned 1.040 wort without all the prep work, cooking and cooling when I want to make or step up a starter.

Canning Wort starters saves serious time and money if you can All Grain Wort. The convenience is amazing.
Click to expand...

I find the clean up of the quart jars after using take more time than setting up the starter, pitching the yeast and getting the flasks on the stir plates
 
rcrabb22 said:
I find the clean up of the quart jars after using take more time than setting up the starter, pitching the yeast and getting the flasks on the stir plates
Click to expand...

That's the only thing I don't like about it. I hate cleaning jars. But, I use all widemouth and can fit my hand inside. After I make a starter I just wipe out all the break material and the jars clean a lot easier when I'm ready to do the dishes.
 
BBL_Brewer said:
That's the only thing I don't like about it. I hate cleaning jars. But, I use all widemouth and can fit my hand inside. After I make a starter I just wipe out all the break material and the jars clean a lot easier when I'm ready to do the dishes.
Click to expand...

I use narrow mouth but going to wide mouth might be a good idea as I have to use a rag on a brush to clean inside. A brush alone just doesn't seem to do a good enough job.
 
rcrabb22 said:
I use narrow mouth but going to wide mouth might be a good idea as I have to use a rag on a brush to clean inside. A brush alone just doesn't seem to do a good enough job.[/QUOTE


I spray them out with the faucet sprayer and soak them in PBW or Oxyclean for an hour or so.
Click to expand...
 
zman said:
rcrabb22 said:
I use narrow mouth but going to wide mouth might be a good idea as I have to use a rag on a brush to clean inside. A brush alone just doesn't seem to do a good enough job.[/QUOTE


I spray them out with the faucet sprayer and soak them in PBW or Oxyclean for an hour or so.
Click to expand...

I would soak jars in hot oxyclean to get the hot break material off the jar walls for approx 2 hours then take a brush to them. After a rinsing I held the jars up to the light I could see a film with tiny brush bristle lines in it. Using a rag the film is totally removed.
Click to expand...
 
rcrabb22 said:
I find the clean up of the quart jars after using take more time than setting up the starter, pitching the yeast and getting the flasks on the stir plates
Click to expand...

I rinse them and then they go in the dish washer. Takes about 10 seconds max.
 
I've been wanting to get a dishwasher. Maybe if I think of it more as an addition to the brewery I can bump it up on my priority list :D
 
To the OP...make more than 4 gallons. You'll be shocked how fast you go through the canned wort.


EDIT: I canned just over 4 gallons of wort in July and it's already gone. I've only made five 10 gal batches in that stretch. If you're pitching the proper amount of yeast and not harvesting, you can go through a buttload of starter wort. I'm making another 12 gal batch of starters tonight. That will probably last me almost a year.
 
onthedot said:
Can you use these same principles for canning priming solution?
Click to expand...

You certainly could. Personally, I don't, and it's because my volume to the bottle can change a good bit. So I measure priming sugar, measure the water, bring it to a boil and put in the bottling bucket. I don't wait for it to cool down, so my total time savings wouldn't be all that great.

M_C
 
Hmm, I've done things a little differently, so maybe someone could tell me if what I've been doing is a completely incorrect way to do it.

What I have done is collect my wort and start to boil is in a normal pot (not a pressure cooker). Meanwhile, I sanitize several mason jars and heat them up in the oven to around 200 degrees. After the wort has boiled for around 10 minutes, I pour the boiled wort directly into the hot mason jars and seal them. When they cool, a vacuum seal is created. I DO boil the wort again when I go to use it for a starter though, and even after sitting for a couple months the wort still smells fine, and the yeast starters have ended up fine.

So maybe the method I use is ok only if I plan to boil the wort again before using??? And if I wanted to use the wort directly without boiling it again, I would have to pressure can them??? Maybe?
 
My understanding is that in the history of mankind, there is not a single case of anyone ever having been poisoned by starter wort that was hot water bath canned, as opposed to pressure canned. Of course, the pat response here is that no one wants to be the first.
 
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Wort is low acid.

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Pressure canning is the only safe method of preserving vegetables, meats, poultry and seafood. Jars of food are placed in 2 to 3 inches of water in a special pressure cooker which is heated to a temperature of at least 240° F. This temperature can only be reached using the pressure method. A microorganism called Clostridium botulinum is the main reason why pressure processing is necessary. Though the bacterial cells are killed at boiling temperatures, they can form spores that can withstand these temperatures. The spores grow well in low acid foods, in the absence of air, such as in canned low acidic foods like meats and vegetables. When the spores begin to grow, they produce the deadly botulinum toxins(poisons).
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]The only way to destroy these spores is by pressure cooking the food at a temperature of 240°F, or above, for a specified amount of time depending on the type of food and altitude. Foods that are low acid have a pH of more than 4.6 and because of the danger of botulism, they must be prepared in a pressure canner. [/SIZE][/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
Exbeerienced said:
My understanding is that in the history of mankind, there is not a single case of anyone ever having been poisoned by starter wort that was hot water bath canned, as opposed to pressure canned. Of course, the pat response here is that no one wants to be the first.
Click to expand...
Or have to pour out 5+ gallons of beer because aceto, lacto, pedio, and ??? laced starter wort turned your beer into a foul, stinking, though still not poisonous, swill.

The rational for pressure canning has been posted, several times.
 
Exbeerienced said:
Oh. I'm new here. I thought the rational was pointed towards prevention of botulism.
Click to expand...
I suppose that is the main reason to pressure can.

Your previous answer could be taken by some (mainly those types that like to buck trends, and tend to think other types are overly concerned about things), that no ill effects have ever come from not pressure canning wort. It was a comment more on the general pat answer of 'nothing harmful to humans can grow in beer' that is so often bandied about. I really don't care if it is true or not, because there are plenty of things that can grow in a beer to make it so unpalatable that most people wouldn't drink it in the first place. Which is good, because it means more of that sour, putrid, delicious beer for me.

I know that miniscule quantities are harmful, but I wonder if enough BT could be produced in 1-2 liters of wort, so that when diluted into 5-10 gallons, it is harmful. I would assume the yeast would eat the new sugars in the main batch much faster than the bot bacteria would. Not sure whether bot can eat the unfermentables that remain if the beer were some style that allowed bot to be active. Probably best not to test it.

Cooking the wort in the jar again in a water bath a few hours before use will denature the bot toxin, if you are worried about it.
 
How long will a can of wort thats been in a pressure cooker sit on a shelf before it goes bad?

a few months? a few years?
 
The question of harmful things ability to grow in beer (or in anything else) must be carefully distinguished when we're discussing canning.

First, we must distinguish between an ærobic (in the presence of air / oxygen) environment, and an anærobic (in the absence of air / oxygen) environment.

The brewing environment (as opposed to life in a canning jar, or a can of soup) is an ærobic environment, in which ærobic organisms grow. None of those that will grow in beer under these conditions are known to have deleterious effects on humans.

The canning environment is created specifically to keep any and all organisms from growing in the food in the container. The container is sealed = anærobic. The specific danger (mentioned in this thread by Ed Wort), which one will find discussed in any canning manual, is that the genus Clostridium specifically will grow in the absence of air. If viable spores of Clostridium botulinum are canned, and they grow in there, you can become very sick, or die (as in = stop breathing).

A familiar relative is the organism producing Tetanus. This is caused when spores of another species of the same genus, Clostridium tetani, gains entry to the body below skin level by such as a puncture wound, rather than a simple cut. The lower oxygen (anærobic) conditions can enable the spores to grow, and its toxins producing the condition, otherwise known as "lockjaw" (which an also be fatal).

This is not an area for experimentation. Water bath canning is safe only for high acid foods such as tomatoes. Follow the wort canning instructions specifically as given in Ed Wort's post and don't cut any corners.
 
Can anyone recommend a make/model of pressure cooker that would be ideal for this project? I also see this as a way of saving some money instead of using DME on my bigger starters.
 
This is what I have. It cans 7 quarts at a time.

41J2WXVHVRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000BYCFU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It's back up to $79, but you could have had it for $59 as was posted a while back.
 
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Last edited by a moderator:
msa8967 said:
Can anyone recommend a make/model of pressure cooker that would be ideal for this project? I also see this as a way of saving some money instead of using DME on my bigger starters.
Click to expand...

I have a run-of-the-mill Mirro. I use it for canning tomatoes, spaghetti sauce, DME, venison, and so on. I don't see my specific model anymore, but it's very similar to this: Amazon.com: T-fal/wearever 92112 Pressure Cooker/canner 12 Qt: Home & Garden

Remember, you don't want a pressure cooker. You want a pressure canner. That means that you have to get the higher pressure, and it must fit in quart jars. Mine fits 7 quart jars in it, or 14 pint jars.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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