First(ish) Brew: Concerns/Questions

First of all, I have to do the obligatory "this is my first post, but I've been reading this forum for a while and it's awesome." And that's true, of course.

A buddy and I brewed a couple kits together, as we'd each bought our own equipment starter kits. We had brewed one beer successfully with the help and equipment of another friend, but these two beers (Irish Red and Irish Stout from Midwest Brewing) were the first we did completely on our own. As far as I know, we did an excellent job with everything from steeping the grains to bottling. Sanitation was obsessive, gravities were right on, etc. The brews spent 10 days in primary, 17 days in secondary (somewhat random times, seemingly, but it's what our schedules allowed), and now 14 days in the bottle. They were stored at 70 degrees.

Now the issue: we opened a bottle of each today, and to say the least I was disappointed. Both were carbonated beautifully, with a good head when poured. Both had what I thought was good aroma (obviously different for the two). They did not taste good; I'm not a beer reviewer so I apologize for the lack of fancy beer-tasting parlance. Both actually tasted remarkably similar for how different they should be; they were essentially flavorless with a little bit of hoppy bitterness. They almost tasted like carbonated water (you know how carbonated water has that distinct, almost sour taste), with a bitter aftertaste.

Where is the malt flavor in these beers? There is virtually none and they had a distinct maltiness when I tasted them at bottling; the stout was pretty impressive at bottling. Do I need to just wait longer for the beer to mature? Are they over-carbonated, giving them that soda water-like flavor? If I need to just wait, is there anything I need to do to make sure they don't get over-carbonated (like put them in the fridge), or is it a self-limiting process? What else am I not thinking of?

I worry especially because the brew I did with the supervision of my friend was great, and it was great the first time I tasted it 14 days after bottling. Are these two beers hopeless?

Sorry for the long-windedness, and thanks in advance for the replies.

ALthough your beer appeared to be carbed at 14 days the process wasn't over yet. The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

ANd just because a beer is fizzy doesn't mean that it still doesn't taste like a$$ at that time....that it's still green

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

Forget about them for a couple more weeks, and then come back and post how wonderful they taste now that the flavors have come together.

After you're done reading my bottling blog read this....

Thanks for the quick reply. For clarification, the beer did seem, to me, to be well-carbonated, and had a better head when poured than a lot of beer I drink. What you're saying (and in the links as well) is that that doesn't necessarily mean that they are properly carbed? The strange flavor/lack of flavor is actually (potentially) a result of the beers not being carbed, despite the bubbles that I always thought were the only sign of carbonation? If so you've allayed about 87% of my fear...

Well let me put it this way, when I link to a blog I wrote it's because the question get's asked by new brewers daily. And the situation described (in your case openning the beer under the 3-6 week window I talk about) is almost always the situation that the new brewer comes in here with. See my post count? I'm not trying to brag about it, or be arrogant about it, but about 1/4 to 1/5 of that number are threads like this...and I subscribe to nearly every thread I post in, so even if it's a year later and someone thinks to update their thread (and folks usually do) I see it.....

And of the amount I answer in relation to your question, my "being correct" rate is about 99.95%....So that trumps your 87% doubt in this one thread by probably 6,500 threads where I'm right about it.

Make sure they're above 70, come back to them in a couple weeks and thank me.

REv do you live here?
You answer just about any question before i see it. And i dont have a life...

Didnt see your last responce(I drink geen beer) and im drunk so ...

bds3 said:

Thanks for the quick reply. For clarification, the beer did seem, to me, to be well-carbonated, and had a better head when poured than a lot of beer I drink. What you're saying (and in the links as well) is that that doesn't necessarily mean that they are properly carbed? The strange flavor/lack of flavor is actually (potentially) a result of the beers not being carbed, despite the bubbles that I always thought were the only sign of carbonation? If so you've allayed about 87% of my fear...

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He's not saying your beer is undercarbed, it needs to age a little. You can get a brew to carb up in as little as a week, but it could still taste like crap for months after depending on the recipe. I keg most of my brews now and I let them sit for about 4 weeks in the primary and about 3 weeks in the keg before I even pull a taste....well, I might sneak a few samples in there. Give it some more time and if it still tastes like crap...maybe some more time...and if it still tastes like crap...then there might be a problem...enjoy!

Revvy said:

See my post count? I'm not trying to brag about it, or be arrogant about it,

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He's not, seriously...My post count is so low because i've seen and read a metric crap ton of his posts...Revvy has helped my brewing so much and probably doesn't even know...

but he did quote me once..and i felt validated that i knew something...

but in all seriousness, he's heard it all before from the new brewers, so take all his advice with less salt than you take others..

i'm still amazed at how much some of our beers change as time goes by. the java juice porter just keeps getting better and better. it's been in keg for going on at least 2 months.

get another batch going and let these sit a while longer.

cheers!

Kaz said:

He's not saying your beer is undercarbed, it needs to age a little. You can get a brew to carb up in as little as a week, but it could still taste like crap for months after depending on the recipe. I keg most of my brews now and I let them sit for about 4 weeks in the primary and about 3 weeks in the keg before I even pull a taste....well, I might sneak a few samples in there. Give it some more time and if it still tastes like crap...maybe some more time...and if it still tastes like crap...then there might be a problem...enjoy!

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Alright, so let's assume my beer is carbed but needs to age a bit (or a lot) still. Revvy said that despite what the carbonation is doing at any point early, it all seems to even out over time. So I DON'T need to do anything to my beer right now to make sure it doesn't get over-carbonated? I can let it sit at 70 degrees for weeks, hoping it becomes good, without worrying about that?

edie said:

i'm still amazed at how much some of our beers change as time goes by. the java juice porter just keeps getting better and better. it's been in keg for going on at least 2 months.

get another batch going and let these sit a while longer.

cheers!

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Dude, stick one or two aside for a couple years...look what I posted 2 days ago. I brewed it 3 years ago. It's the beer brewed in my partigyle pumpkin porter thread.

Revvy said:

OH MY GOD...I just found a bottle of this in one of my cubby holes beer storage places in my loft.

It is amazing!!!!!!!

I can't believe how great this beer is. It's what every pumpkin beer I ever tried and was disapointed with should be. It has a quarter inch light caramel/tan head, lots of lacing on the glass. It has a surprising definite pumpkin and spice taste, cut with a dark caramel/molasses toffee note to it. It has a pronounced bitterness, not from hops but a roasty coffee bite to it. It's got no hop aroma, but instead has a burnt sugar chocolate and coffee smell.

All in all this is one of the best beers I ever made. I really wish I had more of this. I guess I may have to brew this in the late summer for fall.

I'm blown away.

Dayum!!!!!

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