Leaf vs Pellet

While shopping for my next few batches, I ran into a question. I need 3.5 oz EKG leaf hops(dry hop IPA) and 5.5 oz EKG for boil in 2 recipes. I have 2 oz leaves in my freezer, and would reacher buy the $9 8oz bag from Northern Brewer than the 1oz bags. Can I substitute leaf for pellets 1:1?? I thought I read somewhere that pellet utilization was higher? And if I do get pellets, is there any problem(recalculation) for dry hopping with leaf & pellets?

When dry hopping, utilization is not an issue. For bittering, you can use roughly 10% less pellet, by weight. But really, hop IBU calculations are such a WAG that it probably won't make a difference either way.

There is a difference in utilization for different types of hops. Pellets have the highest utilization, then plugs and then whole. If I remember correctly it's a difference of about 10% between highest and lowest. And I think it's a linear difference accross boil times.

I think Tinseth, Rager/Garetz and Daniels all have a slightly different take on the effects.

If you use good brewing software or find a good IBU calculator on the net, the software should give you the answers.

Oh, missed that. Yes, for dry hopping it is probably a non-issue.

So essentially I get more bitter for my buck with pellets. And less mess. And when it comes to hops, more is better. I have a Mac and have the trial version of BeerAlchemy but I've been spending my funds on grain and equipment. Guess I should move that up one the priority list.

Thanks!

Chefencore said:

So essentially I get more bitter for my buck with pellets. And less mess. And when it comes to hops, more is better. I have a Mac and have the trial version of BeerAlchemy but I've been spending my funds on grain and equipment. Guess I should move that up one the priority list.

Thanks!

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I only use pellets so far but there are people who would argue that whole hops are a better product. They have lower utilization but that is only one characteristic. I haven't looked any more into other forms because pellets are so readily available.

If you are interested in reasons people use other forms, you should look around this site.

Personally, I think whole hops are a better product from an aroma and flavor standpoint. So in a perfect world, I would use pellets for bittering and whole leaf for aroma/flavor/dry/FWH........

Whole hops in a glass carboy is just not fun though....

Some volatile oils are lost during the process to make pellets. Heat and pressure will do that.

I have used pellets and my system doesn't like them at all. And I live in the foothills of the Cascades?!?!?!?!?! They shoot people around here for using anything but whole hops.

I've made the same recipe with pellet and whole leaf and have not been able to tell a significant difference in flavor. One thing to consider when comparing is the AA%. I've found that at my LBS the whole leaf of many varieties has a higher AA than the pellet so even though you see lower utiliztion it is offset by the higher AA. In many cases the whole leaf is slightly less expensive as well, even at the higher AA.

Nateo said:

But really, hop IBU calculations are such a WAG that it probably won't make a difference either way.

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I was thinking the same thing yesterday as I measured out 1.1 oz on my analog scale that is graduated in 0.25 oz increments. Yeah, I'm sure I hit my target IBUs exactly . . .

Unless you can precisely measure both your kettle utilization and the true % alpha-acid of the hops you will use, there's no way to determine your IBUs. Even if your hops started life as x% alpha-acid, how do you know they are still that %? They're certainly not, because AA% decreases with age, storage method, and temperature.

And beta-acids are never considered by homebrewers, but they'll contribute additional bitterness as the beer ages .

PVH said:

I was thinking the same thing yesterday as I measured out 1.1 oz on my analog scale that is graduated in 0.25 oz increments. Yeah, I'm sure I hit my target IBUs exactly . . .

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Has a lot more to do with hop utilization per system and degradation of the hops. The SW programs have no idea and most users of these programs have no idea either.

And were talking about factors that could be 50% or 80%. I calculate my APA at 70 IBUs when in actuality they end up being closer to 45-50.

BendBrewer said:

Has a lot more to do with hop utilization per system and degradation of the hops. The SW programs have no idea and most users of these programs have no idea either.

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It's oddly comforting that I am not just getting one part of the equation wrong.

In any event, the bitterness of my beers come out where I want it to almost all the time. I am surprised your APA is off 20-25 IBUs. I would be really surprised with that big a swing. Do you use a lot of older hops? I tend to burn through mine pretty quickly.

PVH said:

It's oddly comforting that I am not just getting one part of the equation wrong.

In any event, the bitterness of my beers come out where I want it to almost all the time. I am surprised your APA is off 20-25 IBUs. I would be really surprised with that big a swing. Do you use a lot of older hops? I tend to burn through mine pretty quickly.

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I don't know about quickly. They harvest them once a year right?

I have just shared my beer with a lot of different pro brewers in the area. I tell them my recipe and calculated IBUs. They agree that it is no where near 70. A quick scale up to their size system and I put in 3 times the amount of hops per gallon as their similar tasting APA.

If you want to know your IBUs, you're going to have to have it tested.

BendBrewer said:

I don't know about quickly. They harvest them once a year right?

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Yes - but opening the package over and over makes a difference. Even if I wanted to I don't think I could keep a package around long enough for it to be a problem. I am more likely to brew a style that calls for a hop that I have open than to open a new package.

It also occurred to me that my perceived IBUs are probably off by a good bit. When I pour a particular beer I have made, I expect a certain level of bitterness. I bet it would have to be way off for me to notice.

Chefencore said:

So essentially I get more bitter for my buck with pellets. And less mess. And when it comes to hops, more is better. I have a Mac and have the trial version of BeerAlchemy but I've been spending my funds on grain and equipment. Guess I should move that up one the priority list.

Thanks!

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See if you can find a version of "Homebrew Formulator" (free). I've tried all of the samples for Mac, & always return to this one: it's no longer supported, but you can update all of the data bases as needed.

BendBrewer said:

Has a lot more to do with hop utilization per system and degradation of the hops. The SW programs have no idea and most users of these programs have no idea either.

And were talking about factors that could be 50% or 80%. I calculate my APA at 70 IBUs when in actuality they end up being closer to 45-50.

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Thats a big difference...you might be doing something wrong. We made some IPA's and Pilsners along with a few other hoppy beers. The local brewery sent them to the lab as part of a club project and we were all with in a few IBU's.
What formula are you using, Rager or tinseth? Most use rager and find it accurate.

I will try to stay on topic.

OP, sub pellets for whole just expect 10% more utilization

Pellets store better and that is why most people use them but if handled correctly I like whole for flavor and aroma.