A case against kegging - Bottling is better

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Grinder12000

Grinder12000

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IF YOU ARE READING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME - IT'S AN EDITORIAL - NOT A "FACT" piece. I have already been whipped and beaten!

All kegging is not inferior and it is not what I an inferring. Force carbing FOR HOME BREWERS - I personally feel is inferior.


First I want to say I am NOT trying to diss keggers in anyway. There are many good reason to keg beer but it always seems I hear people passively putting down brewers that bottle their beer because kegging is SO EASY!!

Yea - it IS easy, but at what cost.

So a while back I made some comments about how I have seen very very few, GOOD, all grain (AG) brewers. I was not saying there were not ANY good AGers but it seemed to me that when I tasted a very good homebrew - it was normally from a mini masher (note - I mini mash).

My thought process at the time was that it seemed the goal of most brewers were to go AG and to do it as fast as they can because you somehow get anointed as a better brewer BECAUSE you brew ALL GRAIN. If you brew AG you must know what you are doing which is not really true. SO - my feeling was most people did not know how to brew all grain.

I was wrong.

Now I have another through process.

Flashback to last summer - A friend of mine and I attend a local homebrew fest. We come away thinking - WOW, I can brew so much better then 90% of those guys and they were mostly All Grain people. Their beers all lacked . . something that we could not put our fingers on . . .a certain . . . complexity.

Our thought at the time was lack of talent with All Grain brewers because the best beers were from mini mashers.

BUT WAIT! Perhaps it was NOT the fact that they were brewing AG. It's the kegging!!!

Because AG brewers "normally" make 10 gallon batches they keg. While many mini mashers bottle their 5 gallons.

Flash forward to The Great Taste of the Midwest. What was the hottest beers with the longest lines? The Cask ale's . People were tripping over themselves saying how GREAT naturally carbonated ale is.

So here is my thought. Kegging, where you force carbonate, while fast and easy takes away that fantastic flavor that you get bottling. Bottling is basically like a cask ale, naturally carbonated. Bottling, which some say is a pain in the butt just makes a better tasting beer.

So if you want the best tasting portable beer - you should bottle, if you want convenience and speed, go with kegging. In this respect - more work = better tasting beer.
 
I have to say that the bottle conditioned ales do have a bit of a leg up. Naturally carbed and changing with age, true bottled conditioned beer, especially homebrew is tough to beat.
 
First, I'll summarize by saying Bu!!****, on many counts.

AG brewers usually keg - unfounded correlation. I know many extract brewers that keg and even more all grain brewers that bottle.


What I THINK you're actually trying to make a case for is beer that is allowed to condition warm. To suggest that this can't be achieved in a keg is pure nonsense.

The truth is, kegged beer is just as good as bottled beer if it is handled the same way. Unfortunately it is often not. Many brewers that keg make the mistake of thinking of it as a shortcut to serving it quicker. This does NOT, however suggest that bottled beer is better.

Force carbonating beer doesn't "take away" any great flavor. What it can do is temporarily introduce a higher level of carbonic acid initially for a few days after it's carbed. Of course this happens in the bottle too but since you're programmed to let it completely carb over a few weeks, you'd never taste it.

The required time for a bottled beer to carbonate also forces a warm conditioning process to occur which you MIGHT skip if you're kegger (though I wouldn't recommend it for many beers).

I've hypothesized that it may be possible that large containers like kegs may have some detriment to beers that depend on aromatics (like smoke beers especially) but I admit having no proof to back it up.

Bottling and kegging both have their place but in my humble opinion, you've made a case for neither of them.
 
I'm confused, your title said "A case against kegging", but you made no case. All you have is observations (and faulty assumptions, as in all grain brewers usually doing 10 gallon batches, and that mini mashers don't keg). Can you give ANY reasons at all to back up your claim?
 
I am with rmullins here. You don't HAVE to force carb when you keg. I do sometimes, and I don't others. A naturally carbonated keg that is put through a beer machine is much closer to a true "Cask Ale" than a bottle. Why? Because that is exactly what a cask is...

So I guess I don't get it. A keg is really just a big bottle. Are you saying that an 8 ox bottle would taste even better? Or similarly, a 32 oz bottle wouldn't be nearly as good? My keg is just a 640 oz bottle. There is nothing that can be done in a bottle that can't be done in a keg.
 
If its just the carbonation, why not just prime the keg like you do a bottle?
Click to expand...

Good question. Not being a kegger I don't know, my gut feeling is that because kegging is easier AND faster you can drink faster. maybe a kegger (who is now pissed at me LOL) can answer this. . . . .can you?
 
Bobby_M - I agree with you. ALL kegging is not bad if you can naturally carbonate it. HOWEVER - I would love to see real stats on how often a keg is naturally carbonated.

NOW REMEMBER - people that read this forum are for the most part MUCH better then your average home brewer.

all kegging is not bad but how often does you average home brewer that kegs naturally carb. From my personal experience a kegger will force carb.

Scimmia - stop looking for a fight - I did not say ALL did this and ALL did that - I said many and usually and other vague terms. I go to a home brew fest and 10 all grain people have kegs and 7 mini mashers have bottles so I make an assumption.
 
I need to step away from the interweb before I go all,
duty_calls.png
today.

I think this OP is ridiculous. First, anecdotal evidence that AG as a group are worse brewers is maybe the silliest comment I have ever heard. The majority of very experienced homebrewers IME brew all-grain. The majority of brewers who know a lot about brewing, brew AG. This group makes the best beer I have tasted in the HB world. YMMV, who cares.

If you like conditioned beer, prime you kegs. Whatever floats your boat. Cask ale is different than bottled beer with different carbonation levels and a character all its own. Also, the wow factor of casks is definitely a large part of how popular the exhibit was.

Anyway, the majority of craft brewers force carbonate, and they make some unbelievably complex and remarkably dynamic beers. Sure bottle conditioning or cask conditioning are great, but to say that beers not brewed that way are in some way inferior is ludicrous.

Now I am done and will log off HBT for the day. ciao
 
Bobby_M said:
What I THINK you're actually trying to make a case for is beer that is allowed to condition warm.
Click to expand...

I think there is a real point here. I made the same recipe twice. One I forced carbed and started drinking at 2 weeks. The other I added 4 oz of brown sugar and let warm condition and carb for another 3 weeks. The warm conditioned ale was slightly more complex.

But to the original poster, I did both of these in a keg.

Warm conditioning a little bit longer is something I am going to experiment with though.
 
cford1 said:
I think there is a real point here. I made the same recipe twice. One I forced carbed and started drinking at 2 weeks. The other I added 4 oz of brown sugar and let warm condition and carb for another 3 weeks. The warm conditioned ale was slightly more complex.

But to the original poster, I did both of these in a keg.

Warm conditioning a little bit longer is something I am going to experiment with though.
Click to expand...

Cold slows down maturation/aging, so yeah, if you go straight to the kegarator, it's going to be different. I tend to let my kegs sit warm for a week or two after kegging, but don't generally prime them. I do prime if it's one that's going to be aging for months, though.
 
I've already touched on it in my initial post, but any perceived shortcoming of a kegged beer, if you're going to attribute it to it being force carbed is:

Not fully carbonated to appropriate volumes... someone got a little too anxious. This is proven to me time and time again by people who say that they can achieve carbonation chart volumes, via set and forget method, after 7, 10 days whatever. It's actually more like 18-21 days.

Just plain young and green... see above.

Prove that yeast re-fermenting a bit of sugar actually does anything other than force you to let the beer sit warm for 3 extra weeks. Prove that you can't simulate this by letting the keg sit warm for an extra 3 weeks.
 
My god people - are you all looking for a fight? DID I EVER SAY ALL of ANYTHING!

The majority of brewers who know a lot about brewing, brew AG. This group makes the best beer I have tasted in the HB world.
Click to expand...
So you are saying mini mashers make inferior beer? typical AG brewer.

The majority of brewers who know a lot about brewing, brew AG.
Click to expand...

That just a ridicules statement.

I'm not saying anyone makes better beer then the other.
 
Grinder12000 said:
. . . . . . my gut feeling is that because kegging is easier AND faster you can drink faster. maybe a kegger (who is now pissed at me LOL) can answer this. . . . .can you?
Click to expand...

I have always naturally carbed my kegs, it's THE way to do it. Force carbing to me does not give the brew time to condition at warm temp's. Still takes EXACTLY the same time as bottling.
 
You can prime a keg like you would bottle condition, so I think your argument doesn't make sense. Also, what about all of the commercial breweries who force carb? I honestly don't think this is true. The only way to be 100% sure is to check the past few years of NHC winners. Figure out what percentage of 1st-3rd winners force carbed and counterpressure filled from a keg vs bottle conditioning.
 
Whatever happened to people that POLITELY say - grinder - I think you are wrong and here is why - INSTEAD people come on and say - THAT IS RIDICULOUS and WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL*****!!

nice group!

I was hoping to get a intelligent conversation on how I was wrong and I can see now where I was off . . . and had some good insults along the way - thanks I would HATE to be a member in your home brew club if you treat other brewers this way.
 
I agree with you to an extent. I believe that you hit the nail on the head with the AG folks making 10 gallon batches and then kegging it. It really would be a pain to bottle 10 gallons - and in the same vein, it would be a pain for someone to make a 10 gallon batch using an extract/mini-mash setup (maybe -i've never tried it). I think that these choices are made out of convenience and perhaps necessity.

So, I guess I can't really speak to one tasting better than the other, just to the reasons why AG folks keg vs. bottle.
 
Dude, calm down a little. Your OP pretty blatantly states how you think force carbing is inferior to natural carbonation.

So here is my thought. Kegging, where you force carbonate, while fast and easy takes away that fantastic flavor that you get bottling. Bottling is basically like a cask ale, naturally carbonated. Bottling, which some say is a pain in the butt just makes a better tasting beer.

So if you want the best tasting portable beer - you should bottle, if you want convenience and speed, go with kegging. In this respect - more work = better tasting beer.
Click to expand...

You don't really pose a question here. You are making a statement, and a wrong one at that. I don't think it has ever been proven that bottling will produce better beer.
 
Grinder12000 said:
So you are saying mini mashers make inferior beer? typical AG brewer.
Click to expand...

No. I said that the majority of very experienced brewers brew AG, and that that group by the numbers produces the best beer I have had (as a group) anecdotally.

You got this response because you posted an OP stating something as fact that was non-indeed fact. Many new brewers read these boards and if things like this are not contradicted, new brewers will believe them and be mislead.

I personally think AG does produce better beer when used properly and effectively. That doesn't mean mini-mash/all extract/etc. makes inferior beer. I just brewed an extract batch last week. I don't care about that. But when you make a post about kegging vs. bottling that is wildly inaccurate, I am not going to say nothing. I think my lack of sleep is also adding to my short fuse....

:EDIT: I also bottle condition over half of the beer I produce.
 
Grinder12000 said:
Whatever happened to people that POLITELY say - grinder - I think you are wrong and here is why - INSTEAD people come on and say - THAT IS RIDICULOUS and WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL*****!!

nice group!

I was hoping to get a intelligent conversation on how I was wrong and I can see now where I was off . . . and had some good insults along the way - thanks I would HATE to be a member in your home brew club if you treat other brewers this way.
Click to expand...

You gave no points to discuss, though! Where do you want people to point out that you're wrong when you have nothing supporting your position?
 
I think it's very conceivable to come on these boards and ask intelligent questions and state opinions which then could spark decent discussions or in fact show factual eveidence to suppoort your opinion bit it seems like you (OP) have your own miss conceived notion about AGers and Keggers with the intention of starting flame wars.

Personally I don't have a ton of Homebrewing XP so I can't pretend to comment on which would produce a better beer. I do think its' kinda silly to lump people together....I started extract and bottling and have since moved to AG and kegging because its how i prefer to do things...by no means would i consider myself better then anybody else who does things differently...I enjoy my process and my friends and I enjoy the beers I make...enough for me :mug:
 
I personally think AG does produce better beer when used properly and effectively.
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I agree 100%. That is a no brainer "when used properly and effectively."

Yea - I guess I have a short fuse also. I don't mind being called wrong (happens a lot) I just think some responses were "internet aggressive".

As for the Commercial brewery comments. Well - they are not home brewers with home brew equipment in their garage with drinking buddies helping. I don't know about you guys but I get in a rhythm when brewing and friends throw me off.

Boerderij_Kabouter - perhaps the problem is not kegging in itself but HOW kegging is done by a homebrewer. So many times I here homebrewers say I can keg and be drinking beer in 3 days. and I say - yea - how does that taste!
 
OP:

You just need to find new brewing friends or expand your horizons.

Case in point: Many people think homebrewed beer sucks. They have had a bad experience with some peoples homebrew: Hell, I have had a ton of crap homebrewed beer! I have finally become a decent brewer, and everyone asks for me to bring beers. I have heard many people say "Homebrewed beer sucks, but yours are great".

Your premise is based upon bad experiences.

Additionally, I do AG: not because of some of the things you used to think, but because I love to make things with raw materials. I love to cook, I hunt for my own meat and garden my own veggies, and I build my own furniture. My preferences!
 
r2eng - you are so right LOL

I am surrounded by mediocre brewers - I have a few friends that make excellent brew and not surprisingly they are the same ones that read this forum.

Here is what we should do. All of you guys that make exceptional beer and force carb in kegs. Send one to me so I may gain knowledge.
 
I think the problem is that you are deciding your beer was better than some kegged all grain beer. A lot of home brewers decide their beer is better than all commercial beer. I have tasted badly technically flawed beer from people making this claim.

So you think your beer is better than mine and probably that your kid is smarter than mine too. Thats fine.

If you are interested in objective knowledge, competition is the best place to get it.

The majority of beers winning at large competitions are all-grain and probably more than half of them saw time in a keg.

Go beat these guys, and then get back to us.
 
The more I think on this, the more I think any notion of force carbing kegs being inferior is the ability of keggers to serve carbed green beer. Poeple who bottle condition can't do this. By the nature of the process, they are forced to wait 3-4 weeks.
 
Grinder12000 said:
Boerderij_Kabouter - perhaps the problem is not kegging in itself but HOW kegging is done by a homebrewer. So many times I here homebrewers say I can keg and be drinking beer in 3 days. and I say - yea - how does that taste!
Click to expand...

On this we agree 100%. But we will never stop the practice. Too many people A) don't really care how their beer tastes and B) can't actually tell they are drinking a product that is not conditioned. The same conditioning time is necessary in bottles or a keg.
 
I do not think competitions are a fair judge of beer but that is a different thread and I'll wait until my whip marks heal :)

I already have my beer judged by 3 judges anyway outside of comps Friends that are judges and are brutally honest). I feel every beer stands on it's own and should not be judged against other beers.

the only thing a competition should do is point out flaws in a beer without giving a grade/number, but then why have a competition.

The majority of beers winning at large competitions are all-grain
Click to expand...

Because the majority of beers in competitions ARE all grain.


also PLEASE notice on the OP I made a comment at the beginning of the blanket statements.
 
Quite possible. It's so tempting to chill that keg and get the Co2 in there as fast as possible and start drinking green beer. Some People do this with bottles too. Anyone care to disagree?

I highly doubt that most people who AG keg, and I disagree with the notion that it's anymore difficult to mini-mash 10 gallons than it is to AG 10 gallons.

I would believe that people who brew 10 gallons are more likely to be AG brewers though, and through experience, there are probably a lot of AG brewers who keg, simply because by the time they get to AG, they are experienced and have reached a point where they say, "Gee, it would be nice to have a kegerator and just pour a pint of beer instead of having to bottle all of this beer."

The OP's point seems to be that many people who keg may be serving their beer too green. I can see this. Especially when the pipe is low. I have to force myself to stick that keg in the closet for a few weeks before chilling. Cold beer doesn't age quickly.
 
remilard said:
I think the problem is that you are deciding your beer was better than some kegged all grain beer. A lot of home brewers decide their beer is better than all commercial beer. I have tasted badly technically flawed beer from people making this claim.

So you think your beer is better than mine and probably that your kid is smarter than mine too. Thats fine.

If you are interested in objective knowledge, competition is the best place to get it.

The majority of beers winning at large competitions are all-grain and probably more than half of them saw time in a keg.

Go beat these guys, and then get back to us.
Click to expand...

I think I'm like that. Oh, not that my beer is better than all commercial beer. But I quite honestly like my beer better than many commercials, and many (other people's) homebrews. Not because my beer is so darned good- I'm sure it's not. It's probably technically flawed, and out of style parameters. You might not care for it much at all.

But, I make MY beer to MY taste. I don't like sweet beers, or wheat beers. I don't like alot of roasty flavors. I like a toasty note to many APAs, along with citrusy hops. So, MY APA is better than many others. Again, not because it's so great. But because I made it to my taste, the way I wanted it.

I almost always brew to BJCP style guidelines, though. I have won competitions with my beers, and I have had Ray Daniels tell me that my IPA was fantastic.

That's the beauty of homebrewing, though. Make what you like, to the best of your ability. If you love it, who cares what others think? (OK, I admit it, though- I DO care that Ray Daniels told me he loved that beer. I'm shallow.)
 
I force carb some kegs (some of which sit for a month at room temp and some that almost go straight into the keezer) and naturally carb others. The naturally carbed kegs always have smaller foam bubbles and better head, can't explain why.

IMO, it's easier to make crappy beer when brewing AG. More stuff to screw up.

When I BMBF (i.e. bottle from the keg) and let those bottles sit for a week or more (refrigerated the whole time) they seem a little better than the beer from the keg. Other than the extra time, I can't explain that either (might be my imagination too). But this contradicts the whole 'natural carb is betterer' notion.

Beer in a bottle only has to settle a few inches to be at the bottom of the bottle and that stuff at the bottom is left behind when we pour it. Beer in a keg has a lot longer distance to settle. When we pull a pint from a keg, we are pulling from the bottom of the keg, right where that 'cloud' of settled stuff is. The last few pours from a keg are the cleanest/clearest pours you'll get, just the opposite of the first few pours. And I'm not talking about beer that was racked too early. Beer has a lot of colliodal/suspended stuff in it and some of it takes a while at reduced temps to settle (not just lagers, all beers).

I disagree with much of the OP but I don't dismiss the fact that bottled is often slightly different than kegged.
 
rmullins said:
If its just the carbonation, why not just prime the keg like you do a bottle?
Click to expand...

That's what I do. In fact my kegging process is identical to my bottling process. Regardless of whether I keg or bottle it's still going to condition for 3 or 4 months before it gets tapped (depending on the style).
 
No offence Grinder12000, but you're basically wrong in pretty much everything you say. It seems to me you know very little about brewing. But yet, you make a lot of assumptions. Very wrong assumptions.
My question is how can I get back 45 seconds of my life it took me to read the original post?
 
It's a matter of perception i think and can be different for different folks. Yes a keg is just a big bottle, however some people can notice differences in flavor at different times in different size bottles.

I myself just started noticing it in my beers a couple years ago. I can notice a huge difference in 12oz v 22oz v keg. 12oz bottles finish and mature much faster than when i bottle in 22oz bottles and both mature way faster than when i keg. It might just be me but like i said it can be different for different folks. I even mentioned it on here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/flavor-differences-bottles-103127/ and most people agreed with me, including Revvy who says he bottles a sixer for comps. It's much the same as wine enthusiasts who determine their drinking rotation based on bottling and bottle types.

But like i said it can be a matter of perception that's different for different folks.
 
Grinder12000 said:
Good question. Not being a kegger I don't know, my gut feeling is that because kegging is easier AND faster you can drink faster. maybe a kegger (who is now pissed at me LOL) can answer this. . . . .can you?
Click to expand...

Grinder if this is directed at me because I have disagreed with you several time on this matter I don't get pissed lol . In every response to the "bottle beer is much better" I responded if all thing were equal with fermentation and conditioning they would be the same .I think most everyone will agree that bulk aging is better.

Grinder12000 said:
I agree 100%. That is a no brainer "when used properly and effectively."

Yea - I guess I have a short fuse also. I don't mind being called wrong (happens a lot) I just think some responses were "internet aggressive".

As for the Commercial brewery comments. Well - they are not home brewers with home brew equipment in their garage with drinking buddies helping. I don't know about you guys but I get in a rhythm when brewing and friends throw me off.

Boerderij_Kabouter - perhaps the problem is not kegging in itself but HOW kegging is done by a homebrewer. So many times I here homebrewers say I can keg and be drinking beer in 3 days. and I say - yea - how does that taste!
Click to expand...

this was my point in every thread . When done correctly they will be on par but again bulk aging is better in any arena. My beers sit in primary for a 2-4 weeks depending on the beer. Then its either kegged or goes into a brite tank if I am adding say oak or spices .Once kegged it sits at 41°-42° for two to three weeks most times while carbing. C02 is C02 whether it comes from a tank or yeast.

cford1 said:
I think there is a real point here. I made the same recipe twice. One I forced carbed and started drinking at 2 weeks. The other I added 4 oz of brown sugar and let warm condition and carb for another 3 weeks. The warm conditioned ale was slightly more complex.

But to the original poster, I did both of these in a keg.

Warm conditioning a little bit longer is something I am going to experiment with though.
Click to expand...

Sorry they weren't the same recipe . You added an adjunct to the beer of course its going to be slightly different.


On a side note I still bottle beer as I usually have leftover when transferring to the corny so I have had both from the same exact batch and I detected no discernable difference in taste body or texture .
 
Scooby_Brew said:
No offence Grinder12000, but you're basically wrong in pretty much everything you say. It seems to me you know very little about brewing. But yet, you make a lot of assumptions. Very wrong assumptions.
My question is how can I get back 45 seconds of my life it took me to read the original post?
Click to expand...

Ok, now THAT is a little harsh.
 
Grinder12000 said:
IF YOU ARE READING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME - IT'S AN EDITORIAL - NOT A "FACT" piece. I have already been whipped and beaten!

All kegging is not inferior and it is not what I an inferring. Force carbing FOR HOME BREWERS - I personally feel is inferior.

Define force carbing. There is a lot of confusion on the term. Are you talking about setting high pressure and shaking the crap out of it to get it ready faster, or the set it and forget it method?


First I want to say I am NOT trying to diss keggers in anyway. There are many good reason to keg beer but it always seems I hear people passively putting down brewers that bottle their beer because kegging is SO EASY!!

Who does this? Most brewers I know, would be happy to get a homebrew poured out of a bottle, or out of a tap. Beer is beer, and I'll try it anyway it comes.

Yea - it IS easy, but at what cost.

Well, you have to buy some sort of kegerator, taps, CO2 tank etc, so it is a bit more spendy than bottling. :D

So a while back I made some comments about how I have seen very very few, GOOD, all grain (AG) brewers. I was not saying there were not ANY good AGers but it seemed to me that when I tasted a very good homebrew - it was normally from a mini masher (note - I mini mash).

If you were given three beers on AG, one extract, and one mini-mash brewed by equally skilled brewers, I'd be willing to bet you couldn't tell the difference between them.

My thought process at the time was that it seemed the goal of most brewers were to go AG and to do it as fast as they can because you somehow get anointed as a better brewer BECAUSE you brew ALL GRAIN. If you brew AG you must know what you are doing which is not really true. SO - my feeling was most people did not know how to brew all grain.

AG does not necessarily make you a better brewer. I've brewed some crappy AG recipes. However, most people who go AG usually have some experience as extract brewers and at least get the technique down before switching.

I was wrong.

Now I have another through process.

Flashback to last summer - A friend of mine and I attend a local homebrew fest. We come away thinking - WOW, I can brew so much better then 90% of those guys and they were mostly All Grain people. Their beers all lacked . . something that we could not put our fingers on . . .a certain . . . complexity.

It almost seems like you are a bit cocky. Were your beers there? Did you get some sort of data other than your personal opinions to make you thing your beers were better. IMO the vast majority of brewers are more critical of their own beer and more likely to grade it worse than it actually is. Don't know many that walk around saying my beer is better than 90% of everything else.

Our thought at the time was lack of talent with All Grain brewers because the best beers were from mini mashers.

Subjective opinion, or did some sort of competition/show results back that up! I might be inclined to judge a beer made by the method I use as better, even though it's really not.

BUT WAIT! Perhaps it was NOT the fact that they were brewing AG. It's the kegging!!!

Because AG brewers "normally" make 10 gallon batches they keg. While many mini mashers bottle their 5 gallons.

WTF? AG brewers normally make 10G batches. Willing to bet many AG brewers do NOT make 10G batches.

Flash forward to The Great Taste of the Midwest. What was the hottest beers with the longest lines? The Cask ale's . People were tripping over themselves saying how GREAT naturally carbonated ale is.

So here is my thought. Kegging, where you force carbonate, while fast and easy takes away that fantastic flavor that you get bottling. Bottling is basically like a cask ale, naturally carbonated. Bottling, which some say is a pain in the butt just makes a better tasting beer.

Umm, you can naturally carbonate in a keg.

So if you want the best tasting portable beer - you should bottle, if you want convenience and speed, go with kegging. In this respect - more work = better tasting beer.
Click to expand...

And just to let you know where I am at. I am an AG brewer. I started with bottling, kegged, and now that I've sold off my kegging equipment I'll be bottling again.

I've made some crappy extract beers, my last few AG beers, before I took a brewing hiatus were crap. I rushed and screwed things up. Two of my most memorable and best tasting beers of all time were extract beers.

You have way too many opinions, which is fine because you clarified yourself, but got a bit touchy when called out, before you went back and edited your OP. Looking at the tone of the bulk of your post, no offense, but you asked for it.
 
Edcculus said:
I think conditioning most beer for 3-4 months might be overkill.
Click to expand...

Concur. Yuri Has a big thread on this. Additionally many microbreweries are putting good, high OG beers on the market in less time than some of us give our pale ales.
 

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