Can't get a "vigorous" boil

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warmerdam

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Apparently, I've got a weak kitchen stove and the wort never really gets to a vigorous, rapid boil, even when doing a partial boil. I've read a vigorous boil is needed to break down the proteins.

I'd like to attempt a full boil, but doubt my kitchen stove could handle it. Anyone have an opinion of the importance of a vigorous boil and whether a more moderate boil is good enough? Also, I live in a condo and don't have outdoor space for an outdoor burner. Are there any good indoor burners that could handle a full boil?

Thanks
--Dave
 
everyone has an opinion, but to me a boil is a boil. Boiling water is always at the same temperature no matter how hard you boil it so I would think that it works either way. The only difference being how much water you boil off in the process. Try putting the lid on the boiling pot and it may hold in more heat and boil better. Also you can try reducing your water volume if you are using extracts. Full boils are only really needed for all grain batches. I used to boil only one gallon for each 5 gallon extract batch and always had good results.
 
Hi Dave:

Yep. Pretty much a boil is a boil. 212 degrees F.

I would not go too far down on water quantity on the partial boil. It makes carmelization and darkening of the wort more of an issue, and also has an effect on your hop utilization, hence your IBU's. The less water volume there is, the less hop goodies can combine in your wort.

If you want to get up to boil faster or hit a stronger boil, you might try a pot large enough to span 2 burners. Another possibility is to use an electric heat stick in the pot while it is on the burner to give the heat a nice boost. It is basically an electric element that has been properly insulated to use in water. Here is a thread on them. Google for more info.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/heat-stick-diy-38489/

Cheers
 
Zen is right, I forgot to mention that your utilization will go down greatly using only one gallon of water, however if you have to choose between doubling your hop additions or not being able to brew at all I would just spend the extra couple bucks on more hops.
 
Thanks sunblock and Zen Brew. I guess I was concerned that the wort never foamed at all during the boil. At least I don't have to worry about boilovers. I did try putting the lid on the pot, but that quickly turned into a game of red light/green light as I had to watch it closely the whole time and lift the lid just before it started to boil over. I think I'll try and find a wider pot and use two burners to see if that helps.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
 
dude just buy a turkey fry kit at walmart and a propain bottle for the cost of a batch or 2 you will be in buissness
 
dude just buy a turkey fry kit at walmart and a propain bottle for the cost of a batch or 2 you will be in buissness

Yeah, a turkey fryer would be the ideal solution, except the OP stated his living situation prohibits him from having an outside space to brew in.
 
I was just listening to a podcast related to your question earlier today. Google Brew Strong DMS and give it a listen when you have a few minutes.
 
I was just listening to a podcast related to your question earlier today. Google Brew Strong DMS and give it a listen when you have a few minutes.

I just discovered the brew strong podcast minutes ago myself but hadn't listened to anything yet. I guess I'll start with the DMS podcast. Thanks!
 
My stove doesn't give me a very vigorous boil either. The beer seems to turn out good.


Someone said something about putting the lid on the pot. It's my understanding that this isn't recommended. You can put the lid on to get the boil started, but after that you want the lid of. I don't know the chemistry behind it, but it has something to do with the DMS. Maybe someone can elaborate?
 
everyone has an opinion, but to me a boil is a boil. Boiling water is always at the same temperature no matter how hard you boil it so I would think that it works either way. The only difference being how much water you boil off in the process. Try putting the lid on the boiling pot and it may hold in more heat and boil better. Also you can try reducing your water volume if you are using extracts. Full boils are only really needed for all grain batches. I used to boil only one gallon for each 5 gallon extract batch and always had good results.

Thats what I thought, but when I was boiling my beer, I put my IR thermometer on the water and was never able to break 195 degrees (3 gallons), even though it was bubbling and boiling.
 
http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_DMS03-09-09.mp3

I'm listening to this podcast right now. Basically it creates a bad flavor in your beer. It gets cooked off. They're saying that a vigorous boil helps push the DMS out of the beer.

It also sounds like this should not be much of an issue for extract brewers. The darker specialty grains has less DMS precursors in it. Problem grains are Pilsner malt. (they recommend a 90 min boil) 2-row has less precursors. Grains darker then that have even less precursors. The longer and hotter the grains are kilned the more DMS precursors are removed.

They also said that a good boil doesn't mean that the wort is jumping out of the pot. It means that the surface of the wort is turning over.
 
http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_DMS03-09-09.mp3

I'm listening to this podcast right now. Basically it creates a bad flavor in your beer. It gets cooked off. They're saying that a vigorous boil helps push the DMS out of the beer.

It also sounds like this should not be much of an issue for extract brewers. The darker specialty grains has less DMS precursors in it. Problem grains are Pilsner malt. (they recommend a 90 min boil) 2-row has less precursors. Grains darker then that have even less precursors. The longer and hotter the grains are kilned the more DMS precursors are removed.

They also said that a good boil doesn't mean that the wort is jumping out of the pot. It means that the surface of the wort is turning over.

Is it the temperature or the actual boil? Because at the altitude I am at, water boils at about 195 degrees.
 
Is it the temperature or the actual boil? Because at the altitude I am at, water boils at about 195 degrees.

Listen to the podcast. What I'm understanding is that the heat creates the DMS and the boil drives it off. The I idea is that you have less dms precursors in your wort. If your getting off flavors in your beer you may want to do some research and possibly consider doing a longer boil.

You must be 8,000 feet above sea level. Where do you live?
 
Listen to the podcast. What I'm understanding is that the heat creates the DMS and the boil drives it off. The I idea is that you have less dms precursors in your wort. If your getting off flavors in your beer you may want to do some research and possibly consider doing a longer boil.

You must be 8,000 feet above sea level. Where do you live?

I'm around 3500' above sea level.
Altitude, m Boiling point of water, °C
0 100
300 99.1
600 98.1
1000 96.8
2000 93.3
4000 87.3
6000 81.3
8000 75.5
 
Thats what I thought, but when I was boiling my beer, I put my IR thermometer on the water and was never able to break 195 degrees (3 gallons), even though it was bubbling and boiling.

I just noticed that you said IR thermometer. You may want to try a probe thermometer. I've found that sometime IRs can give funny readings on unusual surfaces.
 
I use IR thermometer put on my brew kettle (plastic jug) because it shows the same as an alcohol thermometer and is easy and fast for use. I think that is not good for metal kettle.
 
Cheap ir meters don't compensate for the emissivity or the surface so shiny surfaces etc will give incrooect readings. They often come with a table of correction factors for different surface types but you must calculate the value
 
What I used when I first started was a Burton 1800 watt professional model(like at breakfast buffets), and a 5 gal pot(induction ready). I took some refletix and made a wrap and you can boil any quantity. When I switched to all grain I put my HLT on that burner and got a 220v 3500 watt for my boil pot. If your stove is electric just wrap the pot with refletix and see what happens. This would be the most frugal fix, and you can upgrade as this hobby turns into an obsession.
 
I agree with the guys who commented early on ... a boil is a boil .. and a boil will drive off DMS. Check out some of the threads on low oxygen brewing as well. There is an indication that a more vigorous boil introduces unwanted oxygen into your brew water/wort.
 
IR thermometers pointed at the surface of the water are going to read the temperature right there. I bet it is hotter at the bottom.

I have always read that you do not need a vigorous boil. So I would disregard the source that said you need a vigorous boil. What you need is a constant roll of the surface. It seem that you are getting that.
 
IR thermometers pointed at the surface of the water are going to read the temperature right there. I bet it is hotter at the bottom.

I have always read that you do not need a vigorous boil. So I would disregard the source that said you need a vigorous boil. What you need is a constant roll of the surface. It seem that you are getting that.

I use IR thermometer tilted to the wall of the plastic pot and it is OK.
 
DMS has a boiling point of ~99 degrees Fahrenheit. A boil is a boil, unless you take hop isomerization into account when higher temperatures=better utilization to a certain extent
 
Another option is to use two pots for your boil, although you will have to carefully watch your boiloff rate. Less volume should be easier to get to a rolling boil. I did this a couple of times before I got a decent propane burner, and it worked fine.
 
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