Home seltzer making

Hello, my wife, kids, and I drink a ton of the polar flavored seltzer water, and it gets quite expensive, sine I can drink 2 20oz bottles a day, the kids can match that (16 and 17 year old boys), and my wife will drink 1 at least.. So at $1 a bottle, thats $200 a month on seltzer water ,lol..


So I would like to not have so many bottles to recycle and make my own seltzer water..


From a bit of research I came up with this setup, it may or may not work, and I guess I should have asked first, lol... Its actually getting pretty expensive...

big mac carbonator $300
3 gal corney keg $130
oasis chiller 5 gph $550
2.6 cu ft mini fridge $100
2-20lb co2 tanks full $300
co2 reg $40
1-2 button wonderbar gun and holster $150
fittings and hoses $125


SO I have a troth sink in my kitchen that we use when entertaining (fill it with ice bath and put wine and drinks in there, or fill it with ice and put shrimp and crab legs, ect). Under that is empty space, its a good amount of space. and there is a water line to the sink I can tap into.

So I tap into that water line, go into the chiller (which I already own, and it installed under there, the faucet going to the troth sink is not hot or cold, its cold or chilled).

out of the chilled line I go into the carbonator, and then I put the corny keg in the mini fridge and that is piped before the gun. SO, cold water and co2 goes into the big mac, the seltzer comes out of the big mac and into the corney keg out of the corney keg and into the gun... I set the co2 regualtor at 90 psi and call it a day.. INSTANT SELTZER? Then add my flavoring and enjoy????


Is it this easy or am I missing something, I havent picked up the mini fridge yet, but have everything else, this weeked is supposed to snow so I will be in the house and have some time to get it done, am I in for any surprises?


thanks

90 psi seems high. How many total feet of tubing b/w everything?

It would be much easier to grab 2 or 3 kegs, carbing stones and a CO2 tank with a single regulator manifold and splitter. Fill them with good water, put them in temperature control and rotate the dispensing equipment between kegs when one runs out. The other kegs will be carbing with the new water and CO2 stone.

Thanks for the replies guys,
Its about 10 feet of tubing.

I tend to over do things, I really just want something that I can walk over and pull the trigger, and want it all to fit under that sink, so a few kegs would be tough...

I was actually adding everything up last night, I bought the mini fridge (hoping the keg fits in it) and I spent $650 for everything (including the 2 filled co2 tanks)... So its not as bad as I thought... I just want to make sure I am on the right track,,,

Just like jddevinn said, you've definitely over engineered it, but if you don't mind the $650 price tag, then that's your call.

So it should work? And what co2 psi should I set it at? anything else I should know?

Co2 is measured in volumes or vols. If you have a liter of water and take the same volume of co2 and compress it into that water you now have 1vol. If you do 2liters of ço2 into 1liter of water its 2vols. It also has to do with temp. Co2 goes into solution easier (with less pressure) with colder temp. I would guess you need somewhere between 3 and 4 vols to make seltzer. I know 3vols at 36°F needs about 15psi. But you would need more pressure if the temp were higher. You can find charts all over the internet to help with the math. Check this one out. http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

vaio said:

So it should work? And what co2 psi should I set it at? anything else I should know?

Click to expand...

At a start, 30 psi at 40 degrees is a good place. You need 30 feet of 3/16' serving line, though. 10' is not even close to long enough.

Thanks guys, so why do I need more line? can I just coil up the extra? The supply lines I am using are 3/8". Does the extra line have to be before the corney cooling keg or after? thanks

In simplest terms the longer line creates more resistance. More resistance creates more back pressure. More back pressure keeps the co2 in solution and reduces foam. It also keeps the beer, soda, or seltzer from coming out excessively fast and creating foam. It's called balancing the system. High pressure is needed to force the co2 into solution. That can't be helped. But to have it pour correctly you need to balance the system with more resistance on the output side. At this point most new people think "why don't I just put a valve in line to create resistance?" Right idea! Wrong results! The valve will create turbulence. Turbulence means foam. The easiest thing to do is just use a longer serving line. And yes you want 3/16 on the output side of the keg. Smaller diameter = more resistance. In theory you can use whatever size you want for the co2 line. It makes no difference.

OK, so I obviously should have asked questions first, lol I have the 3/8" fittings for everything now, so its a bit late, lol..

So I need resistance after the corney keg before the wunderbar gun?

I was under the impression that the seltzer had to come out cold, wont this 30 feet of line warm under the counter and make the seltzer flat?

What if I put a 50ft coil of ss tubing in the mini fridge after the corney keg, would this work?

Coil the tubing up inside the fridge with only the minimum outside of it.

Well, so, you're trying to piece together two kinds of systems here, so that might be making it a bit more confusing.

You have a carbonator feeding into a corny and it's simply unnecessary.

You can carbonate with a carbonator and have constant seltzer on demand like a soda fountain at a restaurant, these systems will typically run at 90-100psi for faster carbonation, but will run through a chiller or coldplate in the ice bin before coming out through a nozzle that can mix it with syrup. This is a post mix system, or a system that mixes with syrup post carbonation. Since you're just running seltzer, no syrup is needed and you might get away with lower pressure. You're using a bar gun, which might have built in flow control, but I'm not 100% familiar with their function, so I can't say for sure. If it does, you might not need that excessive serving line.

You can also carbonate in and serve from a corny like a pre-mix system. This usually is done around 25-35psi, but requires more time to fully carbonate. When serving from the keg, you're not passing through any flow control valves, unless you get a flow control faucet, which I'm not sure what that does to soda, so the system should be balanced as stated previously: longer lines mean more resistance, There are conversion rates for different types of lines kicking around that say "1ft = Xpsi" reduction in pressure. I think some places like CHIcompany.net will post what the resistance actually is.

So are you basically setting up a post mix system and substituting the corny for a coldplate?

I think I've seen posts here with similar systems, but I'll have to do some digging to find them.

If that's the case then it might be guesswork on balancing your line because you have a lot of different variables with pressure into the carbonator around 90psi, tubing from the carbonator to the corny will offer some resistance, then tubing from the corny to the bar gun will offer additional resistance, and then whether the bar gun has any sort of flow control.

Yes, so I have a copper chiller that is chilling the water before it goes into the carbornator, then it leaves the carbonator and goes into the corney keg in place of a plate chiller... Then out to the gun...

Not sure if this is even going to work, lol.. I already had the cooler under that counter for cold water at the troth sink... I didnt want to get a stainless chiller for 2 reasons, 1 they are like $2000, and 2 they are not reliable, plus I didnt want to mess with having ice under there and put a plate, the corney keg in mini fridge sounded like the easiest option..

If that's the case, you might be ok with the setup you have. You could probably get away with having the extra line between the carbonator and the keg rather than between the keg and the gun.

OK, so I hooked it all up last night, not as carbonated as I thought it would be, but its also not hooked into the after cooler yet, I am waiting for a couple fittings...

So it goes from the chiller, to the carbonator, to the gun, and it works.. I can fill a bottle shake it and then it pops when you open it. But not as carbbed as a bottle of seltzer from polar.. I think I am going to grab a roll of hose and put it in the cooler around the corney keg in that cooler....

The co2 tank is at 90 psi, should I turn that down, will that help?

How fast is the water coming out when you do your fills? You lose carbonation there.

Chilled liquid absorbs more c02. It also loses less carb when pouring. A lot more than you think, so yes, put it in the fridge and see how it performs.

Its coming out a bit faster than I would expect to see at say a restaurant bar when they pour a soda..., boubles quite a bit when filling the glass...

Turn down the pressure. If it is too high the water is agitated and you lose carbonation. I would half the pressure and see where it stands.

OK, that is much better, wit hhalf the pressure, PLUS in reading the instructions to the gun (who would have thought of doing that, lol), I found there is a way to add restriction to the flow with a tiny screw, that I also played with and now it is so carbbed it burns your nose...

Another update, lol
Turns out you need 90psi, with the psi down it flattened out the seltzer, its back up around 90psi and now I have it running through the refrigerator with the corney keg in it, THAT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE, it slowed it down (as well as adjusting it at the gun), made it much more carbonated, less fizzy on pour, and now its instantly cold in the cup, so I have the chiller before the unit (which I dont need but had under there for the water dispenser) and the cold corney after storing the seltzer, it works perfect, thanks for the help guys, if anyone wants pics I can figure out how to post them up for you... thanks again..

Dude, I am so lost. Can you post pics of what you did? I also don't know what half the stuff you listed even is. I guess I don't understand why it gets carbed, then goes to a corny.

YIKES $600 bucks?
I fill keg with fresh water, hit it at 25psi co2 and it is on tap. When keg gets low I prep another one and chill, hit it with co2 and swap it out. $0 dollars.

There's also this idea, which is probably much simpler:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=479094

KartRacer54 said:

YIKES $600 bucks?
I fill keg with fresh water, hit it at 25psi co2 and it is on tap. When keg gets low I prep another one and chill, hit it with co2 and swap it out. $0 dollars.

Click to expand...

That's pretty pedestrian. Who the heck is going to be impressed with cheap seltzer water?

CMcPherson said:

That's pretty pedestrian. Who the heck is going to be impressed with cheap seltzer water?

Click to expand...

I seen this method, I wouldnt call it "$0", you need a co2 tank, the tubing and fittings, the keg, and a cooler to keep it in, probably $300+ for a single keg, if you want a couple kegs to switch them out it will be obviously more money..


Sorry I havent posted pics yet, but an update it works amazing.

The cooler with corney keg in it made all the difference in the world, like night and day.
PS, I charged up a keg by shaking the keg around with the co2 tapped into it, and it is not the same, no where near the carbonation that I get with this setup...

Currently its coming out around 39 degrees and the co2 psi is at 90, its working great, thanks for the help guys, I will be sure to post pics when I get a chance..

vaio said:

I seen this method, I wouldnt call it "$0", you need a co2 tank, the tubing and fittings, the keg, and a cooler to keep it in, probably $300+ for a single keg, if you want a couple kegs to switch them out it will be obviously more money..


Sorry I havent posted pics yet, but an update it works amazing.

The cooler with corney keg in it made all the difference in the world, like night and day.
PS, I charged up a keg by shaking the keg around with the co2 tapped into it, and it is not the same, no where near the carbonation that I get with this setup...

Currently its coming out around 39 degrees and the co2 psi is at 90, its working great, thanks for the help guys, I will be sure to post pics when I get a chance..

Click to expand...

Oh, sorry forgot to qualify. I am a home Brewer so all of those items were already here for beer

vaio said:

Sorry I havent posted pics yet, but an update it works amazing.

Click to expand...

I sure do like the thought of having a personal soda fountain.
Please show some pics of the set up when you can.

CMcPherson said:

I sure do like the thought of having a personal soda fountain.
Please show some pics of the set up when you can.

Click to expand...

It is handy, I have a 2 button gun and a pump so I can add a box of syrup if I wanted but we dont drink soda and I would think it will go bad before we use it and be a waste...

My kids will on occasion make soda with home ingredients, I was pretty impressed carbed water, simple syrup, and lime juice with some lemon juice and it tasted just like sprite, then some syrup and vanilla made a really good cream soda... But for me I just add some lemon juice and a drop of raspberry, PERFECT...

I finally loaded the pics, lol... Sorry I hate photobucket so since hbt doesnt host pictures it made it a few extra steps, not a big deal, lol...

ANYWAY, here is the system, obviously I cleaned up under the counter, in the picture I hung a curtain over it until the carpenter coupld come over and make it so the waynescotting could be removed and replaced with out tools, and he had to change the framing on it because it wasnt fitting correctly...also repiped it all in pex fit it all a bit better and made a shelf for a gingerale bib, the system works awesome I have to say the seltzer is better than what you buy in the polar bottles, the colder it comes out and the higher the psi the more carbbed it is, you can make it down right painful to drink, lol...

The kids had a team sleep over about 2 weeks ago, they were making different flavors (we have a bunch of extracts and flavorings as well as some syrups, plus the gingerale pump), between the 11 boys (yes we had almost a dozen in the house at once, our home is about 4500 sq feet so room is not normally an issue but put 11 teenage boys in it and it becomes hard to find a place of peace), they had to drink 5 gallons of seltzer (and 4 pizzas), and it worked perfect the entire night and next day, constant cold seltzer. Since I am cooling it before and after the pump, it is an endless supply, although I think my pre cooler is only 5gph, and the corney keg is 3 gallons, I am curious as to how long it can be ran constantly...