My very first all grain...

I'm brewing my very first all grain batch this weekend. Was planning to do a brown ale, but Austin Homebrew has gotten slow, so my order won't make it in time. Instead, I'm dropping by my LHBS this afternoon to pick up ingredients to brew Jamil's Belgian Golden Strong (his version of Duvel).

First off, Jamil's recipes are for a 6 gallon batch. This one is quite simple:
11 lbs Belgian Pilsner malt
3 lbs cane sugar
2.25 ounces Czech Saaz (4.0% alpha)
WLP570 yeast

I'm scaling down to a 5.5 gallon batch size. My LHBS is out of Belgian Pilsner, but they do have German; from what I can tell, it's pretty much an equal substitute. Their Saaz is only 3.2% alpha. So, my scaled, adjusted recipe is now:

10 lbs German Pilsner malt
2 lbs 12 ounces cane sugar
2.59 ounces Saaz (3.2% alpha)
WLP570 yeast

Jamil suggests 3 vials of yeast... I suggest making a starter. Since I don't really have the time to step one up, however, I'm going to do a 2.5 liter starter with two vials. Make sense?


Beersmith is confusing me a bit. My intention is to do a batch sparge. It has me mashing in with 13.5 quarts of 159.4 degree water. So far, so good (mashing for 90 minutes at 149 degrees).

It then calls for "batch sparge with 2 steps (1.61 gal, 3.78 gal) of 168 degree water"

Why two steps? Isn't the point of batch sparging to do that in one step? I have a 62 quart cooler... it's not like I don't have the space.


I am considering adding the cane sugar after the boil - say, after the original fermentation is halfway (or a little more) done... I know that the key to this style is to really dry this beer out, and from what I understand, adding simple sugar like this into the fermenter could give me the boost I need to get over the hump.

Does that sound like a good idea? How will I need to adjust my volumes to account for this (or will I?)


Anything else I'm overlooking? I feel like I'm pretty prepared, but I'd like to minimize my exposure to stupidity. Thanks for any input.

In BeerSmith, if you open the mash profile options (the button next to the profile name under the Mash Tab), uncheck "Use equal batch batch sizes" about 3/4 down the window and that should give you a single step batch sparge amount. I think that option is checked by default for some reason.

zzARzz said:

In BeerSmith, if you open the mash profile options (the button next to the profile name under the Mash Tab), uncheck "Use equal batch batch sizes" about 3/4 down the window and that should give you a single step batch sparge amount. I think that option is checked by default for some reason.

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Aha! How screwy. I unchecked that option, and also checked the option to drain the mash tun before sparge (whcih seems to be obvious to me... am I missing something?).

It now wants me to sparge with 5.38 gallons of 168 degree water. Does that sound reasonable?

Yield is supposedly 7.31 gallons into the boil. 90 minute boil. Target is 5.5 gallons into the fermentor.

homebrewdad said:

Aha! How screwy. I unchecked that option, and also checked the option to drain the mash tun before sparge (whcih seems to be obvious to me... am I missing something?).

It now wants me to sparge with 5.38 gallons of 168 degree water. Does that sound reasonable?

Yield is supposedly 7.31 gallons into the boil. 90 minute boil. Target is 5.5 gallons into the fermentor.

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First, I've never done a legit sparge (only BIAB), but my understanding is that after the mash, the grain is settled, but relatively loosely. The wort remaining in the mash keeps it from collapsing. If you start adding fresh water as you start to drain, you can hold the water level constant. If you do that and drain slowly enough, the grain will not collapse (apparently if it collapses it can get too dense and you can get a stuck sparge). But again, I've never done it so I could be wrong.

I didn't see your recipe, so I don't know exactly, but it seems reasonable. Not sure.

As far as your last numbers, I think that is setup-dependent. It takes into account the boil off rate of your equipment. If you put the wrong numbers in, it will have a bad pre-boil volume and a bad sparge volume.

freisste said:

As far as your last numbers, I think that is setup-dependent. It takes into account the boil off rate of your equipment. If you put the wrong numbers in, it will have a bad pre-boil volume and a bad sparge volume.

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Yeah, I realize this. New equipment for me (to accomodate this jump to all grain), so I am aware that there is going to be some trial and error. I figure that if I'm in the ballpark, I can adjust and be more accurate next time.

7.31 gallons of pre-boil volume sounds about right for a 90 minute boil, especially since you lose a bit of water to absorption during the sparge.

If you're going to use starters from now on (and I strongly suggest you do), check out the DIY stir plate plans around the web (I found this one very helpful). The major benefit is that you can use just one vial of yeast per starter and it also decreases the amount of starter wort you need since it keeps the yeast in suspension. I think I made mine for about $30 out of stuff I had laying around and Radio Shack parts and you certainly make it back quickly given the money you'll save in yeast and extract.

I appreciate the reassurance. I know that these are rank newbie questions... but again, it's my first AG batch.

zzARzz - I always do starters, but haven't done a stirplate yet. It's on my to-do list, but I wanted to get my AG equipment together and my fermentation temperature control first. It's costing me $7 this time around for the extra yeast, but I'll get there.

At least you have the wisdom to ask questions instead of abusing some perfectly good ingredients!

It's strange at first for people who've done extract quite a bit to switch to all grain: You were used to topping-off and now you're boiling-off. This site saved my sanity when I did my first AG batch.

zzARzz said:

At least you have the wisdom to ask questions instead of abusing some perfectly good ingredients!

It's strange at first for people who've done extract quite a bit to switch to all grain: You were used to topping-off and now you're boiling-off. This site saved my sanity when I did my first AG batch.

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Thanks. I try to do my homework; it irritates me to no end when a newbie, say, wants to dump a batch of beer because it's green or flat, when a little reading would have educated them.

That being said, it's one thing to have a grasp of the basic principles, but it;s another to get specific answers to my specific questions.

Thanks!

It may take a few batches to get your volumes dialed in with a new set up. Heat up some extra sparge water, so if you end up short you can add a little more to get to your volume.

The recipe looks fine, a good solid basic tripel recipe. Adding the sugar after fermentation slows works well, and it stresses the yeast less. Pitch the yeast in the mid sixties and slowly let the temp rise. Once the temp gets up keep it at that temp or even slightly warmer until it finishes. Belgian yeasts do not like to be cooled down.

Good luck with your first AG brew. It is really not that difficult.

beergolf said:

It may take a few batches to get your volumes dialed in with a new set up. Heat up some extra sparge water, so if you end up short you can add a little more to get to your volume.

The recipe looks fine, a good solid basic tripel recipe. Adding the sugar after fermentation slows works well, and it stresses the yeast less. Pitch the yeast in the mid sixties and slowly let the temp rise. Once the temp gets up keep it at that temp or even slightly warmer until it finishes. Belgian yeasts do not like to be cooled down.

Good luck with your first AG brew. It is really not that difficult.

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Thanks. I plan to ferment at 64 for the first bit, then slowly ramp it up. I'll add the sugar once I hit 50% or so attenuation.

homebrewdad said:

Thanks. I plan to ferment at 64 for the first bit, then slowly ramp it up. I'll add the sugar once I hit 50% of so attenuation.

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Sounds right.

One tip that might help. When you drain the first runnings out of the MLT, measure them. That way, you know exactly how much sparge water to add to the MLT. I know it seems obvious, but "about 3 gallons" can be 2-4 gallons, and it makes a huge difference!

Extra hot water on hand is a must, in case you miss your mash temp and need more sparge water later, but also is a couple of ice cubes.

Once you mash in and stir, stir some more and again. Then check the temperature in at least three different places. If it's different, stir some more. Then, when it's the same throughout, consider the temp. If it's too low, then add some boiling water. If it's too high, add two ice cubes. But don't get into adding boiling water, adding ice, back and forth. Give it a few minutes to equalize first.

If you're going to miss the temp, that's ok. Anywhere from about 147 to 155 is "ok" for this beer, but 148-151 is optimal. If you hit, say, 153, don't worry. Just stir some more. Only if you're at something like 156 should you add an ice cube or two. Otherwise it will cool too much and you'll be trying to bring it up!

Yooper said:

Sounds right.

One tip that might help. When you drain the first runnings out of the MLT, measure them. That way, you know exactly how much sparge water to add to the MLT. I know it seems obvious, but "about 3 gallons" can be 2-4 gallons, and it makes a huge difference!

Extra hot water on hand is a must, in case you miss your mash temp and need more sparge water later, but also is a couple of ice cubes.

Once you mash in and stir, stir some more and again. Then check the temperature in at least three different places. If it's different, stir some more. Then, when it's the same throughout, consider the temp. If it's too low, then add some boiling water. If it's too high, add two ice cubes. But don't get into adding boiling water, adding ice, back and forth. Give it a few minutes to equalize first.

If you're going to miss the temp, that's ok. Anywhere from about 147 to 155 is "ok" for this beer, but 148-151 is optimal. If you hit, say, 153, don't worry. Just stir some more. Only if you're at something like 156 should you add an ice cube or two. Otherwise it will cool too much and you'll be trying to bring it up!

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Thanks for the excellent advice.

FWIW I think its always easier to shoot high on your mash temp and temper with cold water than try to increase with hot water.

+1 on measuring your first running... This is always how I figure out my sparge volume, it simple subtraction.

Desires volume - 1st running volume = sparge volume.

Depending on my grain bill I will do a single or double sparge, usually I don't bother with two unless my sparge volume is greater than 4 gallons.

mdgagne said:

FWIW I think its always easier to shoot high on your mash temp and temper with cold water than try to increase with hot water.

+1 on measuring your first running... This is always how I figure out my sparge volume, it simple subtraction.

Desires volume - 1st running volume = sparge volume.

Depending on my grain bill I will do a single or double sparge, usually I don't bother with two unless my sparge volume is greater than 4 gallons.

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Why the demarcation at 4 gallons? Equipment limitation? Personal preference?

homebrewdad said:

Why the demarcation at 4 gallons? Equipment limitation? Personal preference?

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In my mind 2 gallons is really the minimum amount of water needed to get the mash thin enough for the sparge to be productive. With that said I don't have any data to back that up, it is just my process.

mdgagne said:

In my mind 2 gallons is really the minimum amount of water needed to get the mash thin enough for the sparge to be productive. With that said I don't have any data to back that up, it is just my process.

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Cool, thanks.