BIAB...Why do I need to do more?

My last two batches were my first goes at AG brewing. Both of them were done with a BIAB method. I used a 5 gallon cooler with a paint strainer for the mash at 155F, drained by tying the bag onto a step ladder to drain for 15 min., then I use my brew pot for the batch sparge, and again drained for 15 min. From what I have read, lightly squeezing the grain causing tannin extraction is a myth so I lightly squeezed both the the first mash and the sparge, and I got 80% efficiency with both batches. Both of the batches are fermenting in my fermenting chamber, so I havent tasted either

Am I missing something by not doing a traditional mash with a lauter tun? Could my beers be clearer, is there a flavor difference, will I get less efficiency with beer larger beers (larger than 1.055) I guess my hands wouldn't get as hot by handling the grains while draining, but I don't really mind.

I guess my question is: What will I gain if I convert my BIAB cooler to a lauter tun cooler?

You won't have to use the bag any more!

Let us know how the fermentation is going and what the end product tastes like.

I twist the bags and wring them out pretty good. Tannins are extracted due to temp and PH as far as I can tell. Haven't made 'pucker' batch yet.

Wow, I've only gotten 65% so far...

I guess one thing you are missing is that you are stuck doing batch sparging. If you ever wanted to experiment with other sparging techniques in order to very specifically replicate certain recipes, you couldn't do that.

For me, the only reason I'm considering switching to a cooler is that my 5 gal pot limits me to roughly 10 lbs of grain, which means I can't make any big beers unless I also use some extract.

I thought the main point to BIAB was you only use your boil kettle and no mash/lauter tun. The process I have read is lining you pot with the bag, mashing, taking the bag out of the pot, then boil.
You sir basically have a normal MLT set up with a bag as your "false bottom"

mattd2 said:

I thought the main point to BIAB was you only use your boil kettle and no mash/lauter tun. The process I have read is lining you pot with the bag, mashing, taking the bag out of the pot, then boil.
You sir basically have a normal MLT set up with a bag as your "false bottom"

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I do the same. I figure I have the extra pot, so just do a sparge. You get some flour in your wort but the yeast will thank you for that. Let it sit long enough and it doesn't really matter.

Nothing to be gained, although the fly vs batch sparging debate is one of the areas that admits no solution. Both work just fine and people in both camps can tell you why their approach is better.

[People who fly sparge do so because their equipment is small.]

I don't know that the BIAB owns any rights to a particular sparge method. I mean, the BIAB name seems to have come from Australia/NZ where it is typically done as a one vessel no sparge, but to me it's more to do with grain handling/separation medium. You can one-vessel no sparge with a bag, you can mash BIAB in a cooler for better heat retention and reserve a small volume of sparge water in the kettle into which you dunk the bag (batch sparge). The advantage of the latter may be a smaller kettle size requirement and no need to babysit the temp.

It's kind of tough to do a good step mash with single-vessel BIAB, but you can work around that with multi-vessel or a false bottom. I find really big grainbills are tougher with BIAB. I still use it for 90% of my brews, but occasionally I break out the old cooler for a 10 gallon batch or a complicated mash schedule.

Dunerunner said:

You won't have to use the bag any more!

Let us know how the fermentation is going and what the end product tastes like.

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I pitched Safale US-05 and had visible fermentation in less than ten hours. I'll post how these batches come out

Hermit said:

I twist the bags and wring them out pretty good. Tannins are extracted due to temp and PH as far as I can tell. Haven't made 'pucker' batch yet.

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That's what I have been reading so I wasn't afraid to squeeze the grains. Kind of felt good too I forgot to mention that I also added 5.2 into the mash and the sparge.

jigidyjim said:

Wow, I've only gotten 65% so far...

I guess one thing you are missing is that you are stuck doing batch sparging. If you ever wanted to experiment with other sparging techniques in order to very specifically replicate certain recipes, you couldn't do that.

For me, the only reason I'm considering switching to a cooler is that my 5 gal pot limits me to roughly 10 lbs of grain, which means I can't make any big beers unless I also use some extract.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the differences in sparging really only effects the efficiencies. I know different sparging methods are used by different breweries but I didn't know they affected the style.

Yes I agree, 5 gallons limits me to smaller to medium beers, and that's one reason to move up, but I think I can fit at least 2 more pounds into my cooler and at 80% it should get me around 1.065. I got 1.057 with 10 lbs of Vienna malt. I just don't know if the bag can handle hanging for 15 min with that much grain in it. I might have to double it up.

mattd2 said:

I thought the main point to BIAB was you only use your boil kettle and no mash/lauter tun. The process I have read is lining you pot with the bag, mashing, taking the bag out of the pot, then boil.
You sir basically have a normal MLT set up with a bag as your "false bottom".

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I guess I did complicate the method a bit but I don't think I could get those type of efficiencies with only doing a mash and not sparging. I decided to use my cooler because I had one lying around and I didn't want to modify it so I can still use it for work, Plus I mashed for one hour in the cooler and only lost 1/2 a degreeF.

The best thing, I figure, is that I had all the stuff sittin around the house to do an AG without spending anything on parts and modifying anything and still got good efficiency. I just hope there isn't any draw backs because it sure was easy

SumnerH said:

It's kind of tough to do a good step mash with single-vessel BIAB, but you can work around that with multi-vessel or a false bottom. I find really big grainbills are tougher with BIAB. I still use it for 90% of my brews, but occasionally I break out the old cooler for a 10 gallon batch or a complicated mash schedule.

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When you say "step mash" do you mean something like a decoction mash? If so I'm with you. I'll step it up one day.

Bobby_M said:

The advantage of the latter may be a smaller kettle size requirement and no need to babysit the temp.

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I didn't find myself having to babysit the mash, even though I did just to see where my temp was during the process. I started at 155F and in one hour it was blinking between 155F and 154F on the digital thermometer.

Is the mash temp what you were talking about?

So you only lost 1F in 60 minutes in a metal, uninsulated mash vessel? Is it like 110F in Myrtle Beach?

No,
we have had many 110F (heat index) this year but I actually mashed in a 5 gallon cooler. The one many of brewers modify and use as a MLT. I just put the bag in the cooler.

I'm basically doing the same thing, using a bag in a cooler for my mash. I see it as a convenience factor, and a stepping stone that can be easily upgraded later. I think starting as simple as possible allows you to make better spending decisions as you gain experience and really consider where to spend any funds you have. The cooler and bag can be had for well under $40 depending on which kind you go with. Later I can add a false bottom or a manifold plus a ball valve if I want to step it up.

I'm going a batch sparge with mine. I think I'll try squeezing the bag and see if it helps. I'm getting around 67% efficiency on OG's around 1.050-1.060. I'd like to get a little more out than that.

Also, if you're getting low effecency and are using bottled water, make sure you're using SPRING water. I had been using distilled water for my extract kits, which is fine, but when I went all grain I didn't realize that I needed to change water and only got 60% effecency on my first batch. Noob mistake. Switched to spring water on the next batch and got a little over 80%.

Rover said:

Hmmmm, I guess I did complicate the method a bit but I don't think I could get those type of efficiencies with only doing a mash and not sparging. I decided to use my cooler because I had one lying around and I didn't want to modify it so I can still use it for work, Plus I mashed for one hour in the cooler and only lost 1/2 a degreeF.

The best thing, I figure, is that I had all the stuff sittin around the house to do an AG without spending anything on parts and modifying anything and still got good efficiency. I just hope there isn't any draw backs because it sure was easy

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Yeah i think the original method did let a bit of efficency slide as payoff on the single vessle. Basically as I remember you mashed really thin with all the water you would ever put in the pot (i.e. strike + sparge).
I think you have taken it a step further to get around that issue, I mean how much extra is invested in you method over OGBIAB - $20(?) for a cooler and 1 trip to the shops (which you were probably going to do anyway).
Good work on taking BIAB and adapting it to suit you better, that is what homebrewing is all about I think!

Maybe we dub this method a 'hybridized BIAB' since its kind of taking the good parts of several methods?

or the BS BIAB = Bag (or Batch) Sparge Brew In A Bag

mattd2 said:

Yeah i think the original method did let a bit of efficiency slide as payoff on the single vessle. Basically as I remember you mashed really thin with all the water you would ever put in the pot (i.e. strike + sparge).
I think you have taken it a step further to get around that issue, I mean how much extra is invested in you method over OGBIAB - $20(?) for a cooler and 1 trip to the shops (which you were probably going to do anyway).
Good work on taking BIAB and adapting it to suit you better, that is what homebrewing is all about I think!

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Yeah thanks,

Really, for me, the only extra invested here is time. I had the cooler and I was using the strainers for my PM batches. For now, If I can keep up with these efficiencies, I'll keep using this method, unless someone can convince me I'm doing something to harm the flavor.

Next time I brew like this I'll post some pics of the process.

malkore said:

Maybe we dub this method a 'hybridized BIAB' since its kind of taking the good parts of several methods?

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I got most of these ideas from Deathbrewers AG stovetop BIAB. The only thing I'm doing different is using my 5 gal. cooler to mash in, and lightly squeezing the bag. Oh, and brewing outside.

Rover,

Once you have your bag of grains drained, do you dunk it in your brew kettle to "sparge"?

If so, how much water do you typically keep in your brew kettle to do so? What size is your brew kettle?

I've been thinking about this method for a while now. I have, similar to your setup, an 8 gallon BK I've been using for extract batches, a 5 gallon cooler and a 5 gallon paint straining bag. I think I'm just about ready to try this on my next batch.

Burgs said:

Rover,

Once you have your bag of grains drained, do you dunk it in your brew kettle to "sparge"?

If so, how much water do you typically keep in your brew kettle to do so? What size is your brew kettle?

I've been thinking about this method for a while now. I have, similar to your setup, an 8 gallon BK I've been using for extract batches, a 5 gallon cooler and a 5 gallon paint straining bag. I think I'm just about ready to try this on my next batch.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I heated my sparge water in my brew kettle to 178F and I sparged at 168F for 15 min.
An 8 gal pot is plenty I think mine is 7.5

To get my sparge amount I started by heating 2.75 gallons almost to boiling while I started to drain my grains from the mash. I used my notched mash spoon to figure how much wort I got from the mash, then I figured how much more I needed to get the 6.5 gal. I needed to start the boil. I think I needed 3/4 gal more than I already heated and I added that 3/4 gal the rest of the water to the 2.75 gal I needed and that cooled the sparge enough to where I had to heat it a little more to my 178F. Again, I squeezed the bag after the s

I can't remember which post I got the amounts for the sparge from but it said to use 3.75 gal for a a 5.5 gal batch. I figured that amount didn't take the squeeze factor into consideration so that's why I started with less than the proper amount.

One other thing I did I did I stirred the mash every 10 min for a total of 4 or 5 times.
But I think the real key here is to lightly squeeze the bag after the mash and sparge. I did it by using my hands flat onto the bag like I would clap. start at the top of the grains and work the liquid down and I did this a few times till I thought I got enough out without squezzing to hard.

I would say go for it! it's really easy! I used Deathbrewers stovetop brewing for a guideline.https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

Yep, I've read that thread quite a few times actually... has been inspiring to me too.

Your process sounds a lot like what I've been considering. I'm just going to do it.

Thanks buddy!

No problem!
Good luck

This method is exactly what I did on the weekend. I certainly didn't plan on it tho. I only discovered my boil kettle was to small for the grains at the last minute. Rather than cancel brewday, I ran downstairs and dug out an old 44L cooler. Cleaned it out and hoped for the best. I got 78% on that first try! hahaha Probably fluked it tho. I'll be happy if that efficiency is repeatable.

I sparged by pouring water over the top of the bag as it was draining into the cooler.