Best wheat malt for a witbier?

Are the best choices for a wit unmalted wheat and torrified wheat? Do these need extra diastatic power? I ask as my current working grain bill is roughly

4# Pilsner
3.5# unmalted or torrified wheat
6 oz Aromatic
3 oz Acidulated Malt
(add in 1 tblsp of wheat flour per gallong (5) at 10 mins remaining in the boil)

Thanks,
Phillip

MVKTR2 said:

Are the best choices for a wit unmalted wheat and torrified wheat? Do these need extra diastatic power? I ask as my current working grain bill is roughly

4# Pilsner
3.5# unmalted or torrified wheat
6 oz Aromatic
3 oz Acidulated Malt
(add in 1 tblsp of wheat flour per gallong (5) at 10 mins remaining in the boil)

Thanks,
Phillip

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I was just about to post about a wit i plan on brewing this weekend. I have read raw wheat gives the best flavor and is more traditional - however you would likely need to do a separate cereal mash. Good luck!

krugulitis said:

I was just about to post about a wit i plan on brewing this weekend. I have read raw wheat gives the best flavor and is more traditional - however you would likely need to do a separate cereal mash. Good luck!

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As I understand it raw wheat does indeed give the best flavor and you need to use 1.5 as much malted wheat at least to get a similar amount of wheat flavor. I was under the initial impression that torrified wheat is perhaps the best option for wit & bavarian wheats. Torrified mashes much better than the raw stuff also... what to do... what to do.

Are you really planning on adding flour to the BOIL? I am not well versed in such things but I can't imagine the purpose of that. Where did you hear of it and what is it for?

Brewskii said:

Are you really planning on adding flour to the BOIL? I am not well versed in such things but I can't imagine the purpose of that. Where did you hear of it and what is it for?

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I've never brewed a wit before. However there is a propensity for the bier to drop clear over time, or to lose it's chill haze as it warms in the glass. The flour at a suggested dosing of 1 tablespoon per gallon keeps the witbier nice and wit as it were. It's just insurance to keep a nice haze in the bier.

Cool, I would have never contemplated that. I'm not sure if I could get my head around it but it sounds like it would do what you want it to do. I never really cared much about clarity but I can see how this more closely resembles the profile.
Thanks for the info

Brewskii, it should be noted I don't really recall where I've come across that suggestion before, perhaps ran across it here or from Jamil whom I used to listen to with regularity.

Also at this point I've decided on torrified wheat over raw. Question is, is there a 'need' for a protein rest on torrified wheat as there is with raw wheat? My understanding is 'no' there isn't a need for it, I couldn't find a quick answer with a brief search of hbt, but didn't want to wind up with motor oil consistency wit.

Brewskii said:

Cool, I would have never contemplated that. I'm not sure if I could get my head around it but it sounds like it would do what you want it to do. I never really cared much about clarity but I can see how this more closely resembles the profile.
Thanks for the info

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I just added 3 tsp flour mixed with 1/2 cup water last night to my Blood Orange hefe. The flour gives no taste and gives a permanent haze, this is widely known.

Unmalted wheat is traditional for Wits while malted wheat is traditional for hefe's. There is no need for any special rests* when using unmalted modified wheat such as flacked or torrified wheat as the starch is already water soluble via the heat which the wheat is subjected to during the modification process.

*other than the obvious saccharification rest

John Palmer said:

Flaked Wheat Unmalted wheat is a common ingredient in wheat beers, including: American Wheat, Bavarian Weisse, and is essential to Belgian Lambic and Wit. It adds starch haze and high levels of protein. Flaked wheat adds more wheat flavor "sharpness" than malted wheat. Use 0.5-2 lb. per 5 gal batch. Must be mashed with base malt.

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I was looking into this as well and came across this. Based on that information I would assume that adding flour is unnecessary when you're already getting plenty of haze from your grist, though I doubt it would hurt.

Wheatmeister said:

I just added 3 tsp flour mixed with 1/2 cup water last night to my Blood Orange hefe. The flour gives no taste and gives a permanent haze, this is widely known.

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I never really was big on wheat beers save the occasional Belgian Wit and what it looks like is of little importance to me. Sounds like a paint job.
I'm sure I'll run across this again but I can honestly say I've learned something today.

TarheelBrew13 said:

Unmalted wheat is traditional for Wits while malted wheat is traditional for hefe's. There is no need for any special rests* when using unmalted modified wheat such as flacked or torrified wheat as the starch is already water soluble via the heat which the wheat is subjected to during the modification process.

*other than the obvious saccharification rest

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I knew that torrified wheat didn't need a protein rest for conversion or a cereal mash. However having once produced a rye blonde with the viscosity of 5-w20 motor oil because I failed to do a protein rest for it's 30% rye malt/flaked rye content makes me leery of wheat/rye brewing without a protein rest.

Is this a valid concern or am I an idiot who's forgotten way too much while being away from brewing for almost 2 years? HELP!