Do you clean your equip. in the shower? Not a good idea!

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Bah!!! There is bacteria everywhere, always has been, people using these hand sanitizers and antibacterial products all the time are just weakening their immmune systems. As far as brewing goes, that's a primary reason why we sanitize.
 
There's a difference between living in a "normal" amount of airborn bacteria and intentionally -putting- additional bacteria in your living (or cleaning) space. I wouldn't advise to clean your yeasty krausen and stuff in the shower :) Instead, use the hose outside with some oxyclean free (sodium percarbonate). Then sanitize with a nice mixture of starsan.
 
meh, whatever.

Bacteria is everywhere, that's why you use starsan, (or whatever you sanitize with).

You clean in the tub to get rid of grease and other crap, (stuff soap washes away).....the amount of bacteria being puked out of your showerhead doesn't matter, since you'll kill that off when you starsan.







OK, ok, OK, you puritans, he doesn't kill off ALL bacteria when sanitizing, but he kills off enough!
 
If you're really worried about it soak your showerhead in a little starsan. If you're using your showerhead to clean I have to assume it's a handheld showerhead or you're getting pretty wet too.
 
I would be very careful as to where you are cleaning your equipment. Yeah, StarSan will do wonders regarding making sure that your equipment is sanitized, but you may be in for more trouble regarding plumbing. Your shower obviously has a trap to make sure sewer gasses don't escape. If you're dumping trub, yeast, hops, etc down the shower, you may be in for problems down the road. Especially if you don't run TONS of water down the drain after the fact. I would just follow ThreeTaps' advice and do this outside.
 
I dump the yeast or trub outside . But I do clean the kegs and BB in the shower with a hand held sprayer. for 1 I dont have hot water outside and 2 the garden hose most likely has more bacteria/chemicals on it than the sprayer in the shower.
 
I have used the shower in the past and have not had problems. I do not dump the trub and grains down the drain in the shower. I also clean the shower head every few months as a matter of course. I do not do it because of this study but because of the mineral deposits and such.. I tihnk that as long as you are diligent in your cleaning habits and do not flush grains and yeast trub down the drain you should not have to worry about it.
 
It comes down to basic house keeping. If you keep your crib clean and you clean your equipment properly...you should be cool.
 
I clean my shower head about once every other month. It's SUPER easy, I just fill a sandwich bag about 1/3 full with vinegar, and put it on the shower head with a rubber band holding it in place. Making sure the head is completely covered in vinegar. Then take it off about 12 hours later, and the shower head is sparkling clean.

Also works great for sink faucets that get crusty.
 
kanielb1 said:
When you have water coming out of that thing at 160-170 degrees...I think that may kill alot of those bacterium's.
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Nope! Endospore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...Examples include, but are not limited to, Bacillus and Clostridium.

The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. Some bacteria produce exospores or cysts instead.
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Highlighted for your skimming pleasure ;) To ensure you kill spore forming bacteria, some of which cause food poisoning, you need to ideally use high temp AND pressure, such as a pressure cooker or autoclave. Steam isn't any better than boiling water, in fact it is lower temp than boiling water, so it's worse :p

Number of times I have showered in my life: ~9100
Number of times I got sick: 0

I pour my yeast down the tub if I don't harvest it, followed by copious amounts of water as I wash out my bucket. I then soak the bucket in Oxy Clean, and then iodophor it before use. I also clean my shower. I don't think I'll worry :)
 
Why would you use the shower head to clean brewing equipment? I have a small apartment and use the tub to clean all of my brewing stuff. I fill from the spigot though. It would take 5 years to fill up my fermenters with the shower head...
 
you forgot to mention that endospores are not metabolically active & non-reproductive. Just a way for them to try and survive. It also said it takes 8 hours for the bacterium to form this endospore.

Reactivation
Reactivation of the endospore occurs when conditions are more favourable and involves activation, germination, and outgrowth. Even if an endospore is located in plentiful nutrients, it may fail to germinate unless activation has taken place. This may be triggered by heating the endospore. Germination involves the dormant endospore starting metabolic activity and thus breaking hibernation. It is commonly characterised by rupture or absorption of the spore coat, swelling of the endospore, an increase in metabolic activity, and loss of resistance to environmental stress. Outgrowth follows germination and involves the core of the endospore manufacturing new chemical components and exiting the old spore coat to develop into a fully functional vegetative bacterial cell, which can divide to produce more cells.
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None of this really matters because Nothing pathogenic can exist in beer. Even shower head buggies.

Nothing pathogenic can live in beer, including botchulism. So the only "poisoning" you can get is liver poising...but we're all in the same boat with that anyway, so you are in good company. :D

I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.


Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.
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It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured that it was safer than the water.

Besides the CBC interview some scientist involved in that study and he said that the worse time of exposure is when you first turn the shower on full blast, that's when the most built up buggies are shot out.

Also I wonder if they swabbed samples out of other faucets besides just showerheads. We probably have been exposed so much to this that we're immune to it anyway.

But yeah, what kindof "prevert" takes a shower with their gear??? I mean this hobby does breed obsession and all, but still?!?! :D
 
Yes, when the weather turns cold for the season I worsh my 6.5g carboys in the shower. I use a large funnel to collect the water into the opening. Its the only way I can clean them. Never had a single problem. Like others have said, that is what your sanitizer is for.
 
Revvy said:
Also I wonder if they swabbed samples out of other faucets besides just showerheads. We probably have been exposed so much to this that we're immune to it anyway.
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This was my first thought. Finding bacteria on the surfaces of almost anything is like shooting fish in a barrel (full of fish). I really hate these studies. Wow, you found bacteria in a sample from the environment! How shocking! I see these studies and all I can think is the study directors are just looking for some publicity (and then hopefully some more research $, or perhaps some invites for talks - ie. paid travel). I bet there's a lot more bacteria on my keyboard then there are in my shower head. Actually, I guarantee it.
 
Can't believe this story made it here...I worked in the lab that did this work about 8 years ago. Been all over the news here in Boulder since it's a local lab.
 
Yes, yes Revvy, I know these things, but my point was that 160-170F water (which I hope your shower isn't that hot anyway!) isn't hot enough to kill off EVERYTHING even boiling water isn't. That isn't to say there aren't other factors that prevent dangerous bacteria from taking hold in our beer, which thankfully there are.

As for the quoted article... it IS botulism, but botulism isn't a bacteria. It is an illness created by a toxin secreted by Clostridium botulinum. This bacteria forms spores if under environmental stress, and if given the time and conditions to do so (pre-boil, unhopped wort for instance), would likely survive the fermentation process as a spore and certainly could reactivate. Now I don't want this to scare anyone, it would be a VERY specific set of conditions this would occur under, and if you're following standard sanitisation and brewing practices, then the chances of it occurring are nil. Not sure who that guy was in the article, or what his qualifications are to be making such bold statements, but he is misinformed. I like how he makes the point that C. botulinum is anaerobic like that means we're safe from it... Our beer is anaerobic! We don't want oxygen in our beer except at the inital stages of fermemntation. Some strains of C. botulinum can grow in lower pH's than one might expect, below pH 5 even (Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies). I can't find anything directly speaking on ethanol tolerance for it, but 5-ish% isn't really that high. Anyway, I've got to get back to work, enough with the science lesson today.
 
I was watching one of those afternoon doctor programs yesterday. The doctor was talking about how you shouldn't wash your underdrawers with the rest of your clothes as they should be washed on a sanitary cycle to kill the poo bacteria.

For all of the things out there that are supposed to get you sick, I've never had issues because of my shower, my drawers, etc... I suppose I could test my luck with raw chicken, but.... no.

If we avoided everything that might be bad for us, we'd be living in a fricken bubble all day and it would suck.

We also need to be exposed to some of this crap in order to build up our resistance.

FWIW, I don't clean my stuff in the shower, but it's also upstairs. I'd probably trust mine, but the other shower is used by three teenage boys and a teenage girl, I'd be damned if I put my brewing stuff in there.
 
I don't think I want anything I am going to drink or eat come anywhere near a bathroom, especially someone else's and to someone else my bathroom IS someone else's. Ok, this is the equipment but to me that is about the same. I sure hope my friends are not doing this. Really disgusting to think the homebrew I am drinking was prepared in something that was cleaned in the same tub my friend’s hairy naked ass and privates get washed off in every day. That is the way I see it anyway, can’t believe I am the only one.

Ever see the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was installed a garbage disposal in his shower so he could prepare salads in there while taking a shower? Pretty funny.
 
jgln said:
I don't think I want anything I am going to drink or eat come anywhere near a bathroom, especially someone else's and to someone else my bathroom IS someone else's. Ok, this is the equipment but to me that is about the same. I sure hope my friends are not doing this. Really disgusting to think the homebrew I am drinking was prepared in something that was cleaned in the same tub my friend’s hairy naked ass and privates get washed off in every day. That is the way I see it anyway, can’t believe I am the only one.

Ever see the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was installed a garbage disposal in his shower so he could prepare salads in there while taking a shower? Pretty funny.
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Seems a little over the top don't it? The inside of the carboy never touches anything that comes into contact with the hairy ass or boys. Actually with line of thinking wouldn't it be the same saying that you wouldn't drink his homebrew because he touched it with his hands that washes his privates?


I don't know about your bathroom but SWMBO is pretty anal about cleaning the bathroom . She uses Tilex every night ,basically bleach.And the toilet forget about its nuked every night also

guess its better to clean it in the sink that had chicken guts in an hour before
 
Ever see the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was installed a garbage disposal in his shower so he could prepare salads in there while taking a shower? Pretty funny.
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"I made it as I bathed".

This was actually the very first thing I thought of when I read the thread title.
 
ThreeTaps said:
There's a difference between living in a "normal" amount of airborn bacteria and intentionally -putting- additional bacteria in your living (or cleaning) space. I wouldn't advise to clean your yeasty krausen and stuff in the shower :) Instead, use the hose outside with some oxyclean free (sodium percarbonate). Then sanitize with a nice mixture of starsan.
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Question... Is my front lawn more sanitary than the shower stall that gets cleaned every week or two? My neighbor's cat never craps in my shower!
 
springer said:
Seems a little over the top don't it? The inside of the carboy never touches anything that comes into contact with the hairy ass or boys. Actually with line of thinking wouldn't it be the same saying that you wouldn't drink his homebrew because he touched it with his hands that washes his privates?


I don't know about your bathroom but SWMBO is pretty anal about cleaning the bathroom . She uses Tilex every night ,basically bleach.And the toilet forget about its nuked every night also

guess its better to clean it in the sink that had chicken guts in an hour before
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There are some things you just can't help much except to wear gloves but that doesn't mean "Oh well, doesn't matter what else you subject the equipment to since it was already exposed to other nasty stuff". I rather keep it all to a minimum if I can control it. Actually all kitchen sinks are kind of nasty places since they are so close to the drain. I never prepare any food in the sink except to maybe rinse it under the faucet but never IN the sink. I saw a guy here at work make a salad in the sink and that really grossed me out.

Glad to hear you keep a clean home. Funny thing is my grandmother told me my grandfather used to make beer IN the tub! :cross: That was a LONG time ago though.

I still think I would rather take my chances with the chicken. :D
 
ChshreCat said:
Question... Is my front lawn more sanitary than the shower stall that gets cleaned every week or two? My neighbor's cat never craps in my shower!
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If I had to choose between licking some guys front lawn or his shower stall I would pick the lawn. :D
 
I live in the country and have a septic system. Trub and other sediments go down the toilet into the septic tank. I figure that has to be good for that system. I wash everything else in my bathtub with a hand held shower wand and hot water. The oxyclean and used iodophor also go down the drain. So the trap and the pipes get cleaned. I don't think there is enough iodophor to mess up the bacteria that is necessary in the septic tank. I have never sanitized the shower head but I may do that now. Just dunk it in some iodophor and go on about my business. That is what a healthy immune system is for.

Can you be too clean? ... I think so. I also subscribe to the 10 second rule for dropped food.
 
Bet if you swabbed your kitchen sink and your shower and had it tested you'd find more traces of nasties from your sink.

I'm just saying.
 
ChshreCat said:
What about some guys front lawn or your own shower stall that you know you have cleaned?
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Before or after a rain? :D Well, we just brought our house 2 years ago and it is the same tub/shower they had so even with us cleaning it I would still probably pick the lawn. :D

I guess when you start mixing up whose it is then it changes a bit. I mean yeah, I would rather drink beer made in equipment cleaned regularly in my bath tub than some other dudes.
 
Here is what the late, great George Carlin says about germs:



WARNING!!! ADULT LANGUAGE (But you are supposed to be 21 to be here anyway.)

I don't know how George died but I bet it wasn't from a showerhead. Unless he was high and slipped in the shower.
 
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GilaMinumBeer said:
Bet if you swabbed your kitchen sink and your shower and had it tested you'd find more traces of nasties from your sink.

I'm just saying.
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I am not arguing sanitation here though, you know germs and bacteria, more about where people pee, poop and clean their naked bodies. I just prefer to clean my food processing equipment in the kitchen than my bathroom and I bet my friends would prefer that too as would I to them.

Look, I understand about people not having a kitchen set up that they can clean big brew pots in and needing to use the bathtub, I just don’t need to and I wish they didn’t need to either.
 
I guess it is like this. I don't think for one minute I would get ill from eating the hair at the bottom of YOUR bath tub after YOU took a shower or even the hair out of the hair basket in the drain, but it would be disgusting and probably make me "sick". So no, it is not really a germ or bacteria issue with me. Nuff said? ;)
 
jgln said:
I guess it is like this. I don't think for one minute I would get ill from eating the hair at the bottom of YOUR bath tub after YOU took a shower or even the hair out of the hair basket in the drain, but it would be disgusting and probably make me "sick". So no, it is not really a germ or bacteria issue with me. Nuff said? ;)
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I guess you don't like to shake hands with people either, after all I am pretty sure their hands have been places that a showerhead would never fit. Well, maybe in some videos but not in my house.
 

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