fermentation question

I am currently brewing a true brew pilsner kit. Started it last sun am and fermentation started and lasted until tues am when it came to a complete halt. SG was 1.041 supposed to finish at 1.012 and is currently stuck at 1.021. It is supposed to be ready to rack a week after starting, however being stuck on 1.021 has me concerned and wondering what to do. Do i go ahead and rack, or do i have to jump start the yeast somehow? Started the fermentation process at approx 68 degrees, and since have increased the temp to 72 degrees. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

Do some thread searching, pretty quick to find evidence that secondaries are largely pointless. Start agitating the yeast while bumping up the temp slowly over a few days to try and get the yeast active again. Did you underpitch?

no used all the yeast supplied and have already bumped temp and stirred twice

Secondary fermentation is not pointless. You can give a lot if depth of flavour there like dry hoping or adding spices it will also help clarify your beer. I wouldn't stress to much about being off .09 it shouldn't effect your overall abv to much. I know you want to nail it right on but I wouldn't stress

Also if you transfer to secondary it will agitate the yeast and will start to ferment again. Happy brewing!

so waiting is a good thing? or would u put in secondary now?

I would transfer to secondary now and you should see it start to ferment shown by the next day. Just make sure everything is clean and sanitized and you will be fine

jksweet said:

so waiting is a good thing? or would u put in secondary now?

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Don't rack to a secondary until you are finished fermenting. Removing the beer from the main body of yeast will do more harm than good IMO.
Unless you are doing a lagering step, leave it in the primary an extra couple of weeks and then bottle/keg.

wow!!! love all the feed back but now i am confused... rack dont rack! how do i know i am done fermenting? stuck at .21 for 6 days now and it is supposed to be done according to the instructions. my gut is telling me to rack to secondary and see what happens!!! this receipe dosnt call for it to be in primary that long!!!

Rack it and take a sample in 4 of 5 days and see if it changes either way as long as your clean and sterilized you'll be fine and at the very least it will help you get better

thank you all!!!! what a web site!!! i did just rack it! let ya know how it goes!!!

jksweet said:

wow!!! love all the feed back but now i am confused... rack dont rack! how do i know i am done fermenting? stuck at .21 for 6 days now and it is supposed to be done according to the instructions. my gut is telling me to rack to secondary and see what happens!!! this receipe dosnt call for it to be in primary that long!!!

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Hey man just a quick read for you http://www.drunkmansguide.com/homebrew/secondary_fermentation.php
http://www.mashspargeboil.com/primary-and-secondary-fermentation/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/necessary-rack-into-secondary-115538/
and any other posts on the subject if you google it.

Just my .02

Let us know how it goes. Brew on

solo103 said:

Secondary fermentation is not pointless. You can give a lot if depth of flavour there like dry hoping or adding spices it will also help clarify your beer. I wouldn't stress to much about being off .09 it shouldn't effect your overall abv to much. I know you want to nail it right on but I wouldn't stress

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Secondaries are good for bulk long term aging which is only really worthwhile for a select few styles or sometimes when dealing with brewing wild beers. You can easily dry hop or spice a beer in primary, no need to rack for that. There is no clarification benefit in a secondary I have ever heard of, please clarify? The OP should stress about .09, that is in the area of missing his expected attenuation by 25% giving him an attenuation of around 50%. This is a recipe for a cloyingly sweet beer for the style as well as bottle bombs...if it were me, this beer would either be dumped or I would pitch some bugs. The abv is of little consequence, unless one brews for the abv, then it is pointless to brew as you won't do it cheaper than a big ol' bottle of malt liquor.

Anyway, I know I'm contradicting you at every turn, I'm not trying to be rude even though it probably sounds like it, but I think you are pretty far off with your advice.

You rock your hegemony don't you? Lol

Kegs .

Bensiff said:

There is no clarification benefit in a secondary I have ever heard of, please clarify?

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Leaving the obvious pun alone, adding finings is best done when racking. The process of racking ensures complete mixing of the finings with the green beer, which is essential for proper function of the finings.

Bob

To the OP. The instructions you got with your kit are not the best known methods known to experienced home brewers. They are for merchandising more than they are for making really good beer, because they lead new brewers to believe they should only primary for a week then use additional equipment to "secondary." Conventional wisdom on this web site is that you should leave you beer alone in the primary for 3 weeks, maybe a little longer, then bottle or keg. If bottling you should leave the bottles at 70f for a minimum of 3 weeks before chilling them at least 48 hours before drinking.

There are thousands of batches and thousands upon thousands of hours spent brewing by dedicated home brewers that go into that advice. I was lucky to find this site early in my brewing life and have used the above advice with a lot of success.

You can use secondaries or not, but should still keep your beer in the primary until it is completely finished fermenting and had a chance to do some conditioning. I don't understand myself how a secondary improves clarity. The yeast fall out of suspension over time and form a compact yeast cake. If you disturb them by moving to a secondary you start the process of them falling out of suspension all over again and, I would assume, add time to how long it will take to get your beer clear. If you leave it in the primary without moving it around or messing with it you will have pretty clear beer in three weeks, and even more clear beer if you leave it longer.

I assume you used extract. If so, I was never able to get to my final gravity when I used extract. Typically I ended up around 1.020. It doesn't happen to all extract brewers, but it happened to me and I've read about it happening to MANY others on this site. Your beer might very well be finished fermenting. No need to dump it or take drastic measures to get it lower, it will probably be good, even if not exactly as intended.

Good Luck!

The one true brew kit i brewed early on was .09 over the spec'd FG. Heard this of most of thier recipes from friends of mine.

Sent from my MB502 using Home Brew Talk

solo103 said:

I wouldn't stress to much about being off .09 it shouldn't effect your overall abv to much. I know you want to nail it right on but I wouldn't stress

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1.021 - almost cloyingly sweet. 1.012 - decently dry. my advice is to secondary it. that should agitate the yeast some, even if it does cut the available yeast

(Damn you...... "HOW TO BREW" edition 1!!!!!!!).................... Even John admitted in a podcast that the info in the web addition of HTB is not valid anymore. If you have a 50feet conical fermeter, then you worry about yeast compacting and autolysis. But a bucket.....not a problem!!!! gentaly rock the bucket and leave at little higher temp! no need to rack, at all. I have made perfectly clear beer from bottling staight from the primery......beer just take time!
Why remove it from the source of fermentation and the the thing that will clean it up after???? especially for a lager!!
RDWHAHB .........(after waiting 6 week to lager! and a nother 3-4 for priming)

I would guess that you original piching temp was on the high side!! now after dropping the temp the yeast got a bit of a shock, then one must also consider the source of the yeast ? (taped to the back of the kit can?) Eventialy if it does not drop, pitch an good Wyeast lager yeast

solo103 said:

secondary fermentation is not pointless. You can give a lot if depth of flavour there like dry hoping or adding spices it will also help clarify your beer. I wouldn't stress to much about being off .09 it shouldn't effect your overall abv to much. I know you want to nail it right on but i wouldn't stress

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:cross:


....

lumpher said:

1.021 - almost cloyingly sweet. 1.012 - decently dry. my advice is to secondary it. that should agitate the yeast some, even if it does cut the available yeast

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heres what id do.
; Cover the grommet(if bucket fermenting) or the neck(carboy) with some sanitized plastic wrap and shake the everliving S*&T out of it,, that should get it started again,, i did this just the other day to get the last few points on my Wifeys brew.

BrewinBigD said:

heres what id do.
; Cover the grommet(if bucket fermenting) or the neck(carboy) with some sanitized plastic wrap and shake the everliving S*&T out of it,, that should get it started again,, i did this just the other day to get the last few points on my Wifeys brew.

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Do not do this, you will risk seriously ruining your beer as oxygen reacts with the alcohol. Gently swirl it so as to risk minimum disturbance of the CO2 layer.

Bob said:

Leaving the obvious pun alone, adding finings is best done when racking. The process of racking ensures complete mixing of the finings with the green beer, which is essential for proper function of the finings.

Bob

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I've only used post boil finings once a few times and add them into a keg if it isn't clearing with good results. Given the hassle of secondaries and the increased risk of infection and worse, oxygenation would it make more sense to add it to the primary and swirl it into solution or do you think that would kick up so much yeast that it would over power the fining agent?

Bensiff said:

Do not do this, you will risk seriously ruining your beer as oxygen reacts with the alcohol. Gently swirl it so as to risk minimum disturbance of the CO2 layer.

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What oxygen?

If I were in that situation I would be inclined to let it sit for six weeks. Take another reading and if it's still high transfer to a secondary and re-pitch your yeast with a sizable starter.

Leaving it in the primary for a longer span of time keeps the wort in with the largest volume of potentially active yeast.

However after six weeks your yeast has either done its thing or it's pretty unlikely to and you switch to a Plan B which involves some aeration and disturbing as well as re-introduction of known good and active yeast.

The bottom line is that if this is your first batch it's not going to be the quick turn-around you're likely hoping for.

solo103 said:

You rock your hegemony don't you? Lol

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Snide comments aren't appreciated, you gave bad or questionable advice. If the OP took it and decided to not worry and go ahead and bottle he could risk bottle bombs. If you took notice I half apologized knowing I was contradicting you quite a bit just to attempt to be nice. So, again, snide comments aren't appreciated.

LandoLincoln said:

What oxygen?

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Exactly! What oxygen? If theres a co2 layer which is heavier than air then how is removing the airlock and immediately capping it for a quick shake gonna hurt? Its not like hes dumping it back and forth between two buckets!

Ill stop doing what i do when it creates a problem. I do it often to slowed fermentations and dont have a problem. So if you get like 100 oxygen atoms in the carboy i guess you might as well throw your whole homebrew setup out and take up knitting or basketweaving. Shake the damn thing it works brotha....

Sent from my MB502 using Home Brew Talk

Well shake the bloody **** out of your next bach and see what happens!!!

BUT first look at this
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/oxidation-dont-do-what-i-did-263670/

and if there was Co2 there. it would not have been a problem.( Because that would mean fermetation is taking place)

true, but there should still be residual CO2 in the headpsace of the fermenter, and if not exposed to outside air there should be no oxidization, unless somehow the oxygen and carbon manage to separate...

Don't shake the beer! You don't want to airate it

thanx again for all the advice!!!! i thinki am going to ck fg tom and if no change i am just going to bottle on sun, maybe just tweak the primary sugar a little.

Use the search block ( top-right corner) type in key words, You will get wat you need. Almost anything you can think of has been delt with, and also read:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/what-some-mistakes-you-made-where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

and remember listening to advice is free, but using bad advice WILL cost you!

BrewinBigD said:

true, but there should still be residual CO2 in the headpsace of the fermenter, and if not exposed to outside air there should be no oxidization, unless somehow the oxygen and carbon manage to separate...

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You will have a CO2 layer yes; however, there is still oxygen in the headspace. As well, it is not uncommon to have an imperfect seal where oxygen can leak in (there are tons of threads about people worried about having a non-fermentation b/c they see no bubbles...just a bad seal). Vigorous shaking can result in that oxygen mixing, so it is advisable to do nothing more than a gentle swirl so as to get the yeast into suspension while minimizing the agitating of the headspace air.

I work in the semiconductor industry. When making very very small NAND chips there are stages in production where oxygen is damaging to the part. I work on diffusion furnaces and the loading area is purged with N2 (nitrogen) to protect the product from "native oxide." In order to work in the loading area we have to purge with "air." We have sensors that monitor the oxygen level in the loading area. The size of the loading area on an individual piece of equipment is smaller than a broom closet. Sometimes the doors do not seal completely and despite purging with around 500slm (liters per minute) we cannot get the oxygen level where we want it (below 30ppm). Anyway, long story short, oxygen can push its way into anything that is not sealed up very tight, and even then it's a lot better if you can push a lot of something else into that same space to keep the O2 out. I wonder how much CO2 comes out of an average air-lock, but I'm guessing it's no where near 500slm.