Thoughts on a First AG IPA

Ingredients
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10 lbs. American 2-row
2 lbs. American Victory
1 lbs. American Caramel 80°L
1 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 60 minutes.
0.5 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 15 minutes.
0.5 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 2 minutes.
2 oz Chinook Dry Hop
Yeast: White Labs WLP002 English Ale

Vital Statistics
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Original Gravity: 1.061
Terminal Gravity: 1.012
Color: 16.65 SRM
Bitterness: 73.9 IBU
Alcohol (%volume): 6.4 %

I looking to try a fairly simple IPA for my first AG brew. I usually prefer darker ales (stouts, porters, brown) but I also like hoppy flavors (Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster, 60-min IPA). So my target with this is a somewhat brown, hoppy ale. I plan on using the yeast cake from my previous ale.
Any concerns or comments on this?
Craig

I didn't get any comments but I went ahead and ordered the ingredients any ways. I did make a couple adjustments to the grain bill by dropping the Victory to 1# and adding 4 oz of chocolate malt. I'm still playing with what I want to do with the hopping schedule. Based on the positive comments I plan on using a First Wort Hop (FWH) but I'm not sure how to adjust the other additions to not over power the beer with bitterness and grassy flavor. The Beersmith calculator I was using seems to say a FWH will provide more bitterness than the same size 60min boil. However other places I have read they were replacing late addition hops with FWH. Any ideas?
Craig

Two ounces of Chinook dryhopped is going to be pretty heavy duty...but it is your beer and i have had good Chinook dryhopped beer before.

Yes, I am thinking more along the lines of 1oz dry hop.
Craig

what made you go with all Chinook?

todd_k said:

what made you go with all Chinook?

Click to expand...

An Arrogant Bastard Clone Recipe.
I also wanted to get a feel for the differences between hops and so wanted to try a single hop recipe.
Should I consider using different hops for some of the additions?
Craig

The only reason I asked was that I think of Chinook as just a bittering hop and not a flavor/aroma hop. I don't know enough about Chinook to tell you if you should add something else. When I think single hop beers, I think Simcoe, Cascade, Northern Brewer, and Centennial since they are used as all 3.
Also, I may have misread your post but I thought you were making an IPA. I don't know the official category for it but I know I don't consider Arrogant Bastard an IPA, I would say Brown Ale.
Not trying to criticize, I'm just wondering out loud!

todd_k said:

The only reason I asked was that I think of Chinook as just a bittering hop and not a flavor/aroma hop. I don't know enough about Chinook to tell you if you should add something else. When I think single hop beers, I think Simcoe, Cascade, Northern Brewer, and Centennial since they are used as all 3.
Also, I may have misread your post but I thought you were making an IPA. I don't know the official category for it but I know I don't consider Arrogant Bastard an IPA, I would say Brown Ale.
Not trying to criticize, I'm just wondering out loud!

Click to expand...

I know this recipe doesn't fit the guidlines for IPA. I wanted a darker beer with a strong hop bitterness and flavor like an IPA. Maybe an American Brown Ale would be a better description but I thought most Brown Ales had more of a malty profile vs hoppy.
I have seen several recipes using Chinook as aroma and flavor hops, usually in a single hop recipe. I may play it a little more conservative on the late hop and dry hop additions to ensure the beer in drinkable.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Craig

I'm not a chinook fan at all- so let me know how this turns out. Maybe it'll encourage me to branch out a bit! I was afraid to even use chinook as a bittering hop in my IPAs because of my perceptions of harshness. I wimped out and used cascade, warrior, and northern brewer.

This might be a really great beer!

Brewed my first all grain last night. Here is the final recipe.
Ingredients (for 6 gal)
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10 lbs. 2-row
1 lbs. Victory
.5 lbs. Caramel 80°L
.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt
1 oz Chinook FWH
0.5 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 60 minutes.
0.5 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 15 minutes.
0.5 oz. Chinook (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 2 minutes.
1.5 oz Chinook Dry Hop
Yeast: White Labs WLP002 English Ale

I ended up sparging in three batches as I only had 4.5 gal from the first two. The SG of the last sparge was still 1.020 so I think I was fine. I had over 7 gals which I boiled down to 6 gal with an OG of 1.058. I had intended only 5 gal for this batch but my efficiency (72%) was better than I planned so the results should be similar.
I racked onto the English Ale yeast cake from my oatmeal stout. This morning the batch was blowing off like Mt St Helens.
I'm still trying to decide on the dry hop. I have 1.5 oz of Chinook left which I am thinking of using all of it, however that may be too much. I also have a couple oz on Centennial which sounds like a more common aroma hop, however everything so far in the beer is Chinook so I was thinking of keeping with the theme.
Craig

Well, good job on the beer! Sounds like it went well.

About the dryhopping, maybe wait until after primary and taste it. See if it would benefit from the chinook or the centennial. And be sure to let us know!

If you dry-hop with the Chinook, I'd think maybe 1/2 oz. I've never tried it, but everythign I've read and heard says that chinook dry-hopped can give you a pretty harsh effect in large quantities.

I brewed this on St. Patrick's day and just bottled it last night. I dry hopped with 1/2 oz of cascade in each primary 6 gallon carboy.

St. Pat's IPA

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 12.50 Wort Size (Gal): 12.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 25.00
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.87
Anticipated SRM: 10.3
Anticipated IBU: 72.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
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67.0 16.75 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
13.0 3.25 lbs. Victory Malt America 1.034 25
8.0 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt(2-row) America 1.035 6
4.0 1.00 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
4.0 1.00 lbs. Crystal 80L 1.033 80
4.0 1.00 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
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6.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.20 65.5 90 min.
3.00 oz. Northern Brewer Pellet 6.00 5.7 5 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.10 1.3 5 min.
1.00 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.20 0.0 Dry Hop

Extras

Amount Name Type Time
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2 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast

WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico starter from exsisting primary.

Yooper Chick said:

Well, good job on the beer! Sounds like it went well.
About the dryhopping, maybe wait until after primary and taste it. See if it would benefit from the chinook or the centennial. And be sure to let us know!

Click to expand...

Thanks, It went pretty well but I don't think my turkey fryer has quite enough power. It took nearly 30 min to get my first and second runnings to boiling from about 150F. I boiled the last runnings on the stove for the first half hour before adding it to the big pot. This allowed more room for hot break and time for some water to boil off so I had room in my 30 quart pot for the full boil. I ended up boiling for 105 min to get down to 6 gal which I thought my bucket fermenter could handle.
I don't know enough about the different hops flavors to know if one or the other would be best, but I do know I want a strong hop aroma with this beer. I'm thinking I will either use 1 or 1.5 oz of Chinook for dry hopping in the secondary. That way I will get a real good feel for the bitterness, flavor and aroma of Chinook. I know I will still drink the beer even if it is harsh but this will tell me if Chinook works for me.
I tend to like bitter flavors and using WPL002 yeast I will probably end up with a fairly sweet beer. So I think I can handle a pretty intense hop load in this beer. And if noone else likes it that means more for me
Craig

You might want to try Columbus for dryhopping. It has an amazing aroma. You can tell by just smelling the pellets. I made a very hoppy IPA with just Columbus and it turned out great.

Personally I love Chinook...I think your beer will be very tasty!



Dan

I racked to the secondary Friday with 1.5 oz Chinook pellets. I was going to save the yeast but I had a couple problems getting a container.
I have several Mason jars and rings in the basement as my mom cans and I get some sauce and vegetables from her. So I picked up some lids. After I finished the transfer I boiled a jar, ring and lid for 15min. It was late and I wanted to finish so I put the bottom of the jar in cold water to cool.
"CRACK"
"Well that jar isn't going to work."
So I get a second jar. Boil for 15 min. Pull the jar and lid out of the canner and realize the lid is a small mouth size and the jar is a large mouth size.
"That jar isn't going to work either!!!!"
By this time I am very tired and pissed. So I dumped the yeast and will just have to run to the LHBS for more yeast before my next brew. Probably for the best.
Craig

I made this Arrogant Bastard clone recipe with all Chinook and it was the best damned IPA I've ever made. Definitely going into the rotation.

Arrogant Bastard Clone

Grains: 2 lbs Pale Malt (2-row US)

.5 lb Special-B 147L

.5 lb Biscuit 24L

.5 lb Aromatic 19L

.5 lb CaraMunich 47L

Malt Extract: 8 lbs LME

Hops: 1 oz Chinook 60 min

1.25 oz Chinook 45 min

1.5 oz Chinook 2 min

Yeast: pacman

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for some description of the chinook flavors/aromas in CBBaron's brew...
Would like the feedback since I am thinking about my own recipe, sort of an Americanized English Pale Ale -- with chinook and cascade - around 5% ABV and 59 IBU end product.

LouT said:

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for some description of the chinook flavors/aromas in CBBaron's brew...
Would like the feedback since I am thinking about my own recipe, sort of an Americanized English Pale Ale -- with chinook and cascade - around 5% ABV and 59 IBU end product.

Click to expand...

Its in the secondary since last Friday. I plan to bottle sometime next week. I'll keep you updated on my opinions of this brew. I'm really excited to see how it goes also.

I thought WLP002 was supposed to produce low attenuation beers. The OG on this brew was 1.058. The current gravity is 1.012. Thats nearly an 80% attenuation and 6% ABV. I think that will make for a better IPA like beer but was unexpected. The oatmeal stout that produced the yeast cake had just over 60% attenuation. I was actually afraid my mash temp was a little high at 154F. I had to cool the strike water some before mashing as I left it on the stove while I attended to the kid.

Craig

I must have screwed up when measuring the SG at transfer, I measured it at bottling and got 1.018. This is definitely more in line with the taste which has some residue sweetness despite the very strong bitterness.

I opened the first bottle tonight one week after bottling. It was carbed up pretty good so the aroma came out much better than at bottling. I was worried as this was my first dry hopped beer and I felt there wasn't much hops at bottling. Now there is plenty of hops flavor and aroma. I don't feel it is grassy or anything but I'm sure others would. The flavor and bitterness is a little harsh, most likely due to a young age. I expect this will get better in the next few weeks. There is some residue sweetness due to the high FG, I measured ~1.018 at bottling. I think next time I will use a yeast will better attenuation or mash at lower temps. Still this beer is very much what I wanted and I will enjoy every bottle. However I think this one will not be near as popular with friends as my earlier batches or my oatmeal stout that is just about ready to drink. This is a hophead only beer.

At this point this beer is more bitter and has as much hop flavor as the 60-min or
Arrogant Bastard I have tried. When it mellows out a little I'm going to be loving it.

Craig

Thanks for the post, any update now that it's had a little more time in the bottles?

I see everyone uses American 2-row as their base grains for their IPAs. Has anyone used Maris Otter as their total base grain with no 2-row at all?

LouT said:

Thanks for the post, any update now that it's had a little more time in the bottles?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder. I'll stick a few of these in the fridge to try this weekend. I had forgotten about this batch with trying out my oatmeal stout in a party pig and brewing 3 batches in 2 weeks for an upcoming party.

Craig

psujeeperman02 said:

I see everyone uses American 2-row as their base grains for their IPAs. Has anyone used Maris Otter as their total base grain with no 2-row at all?

Click to expand...

Maris Otter is a 2 row grain. It is available in pale malt and pale ale malt. I havn't used it but I know several people use it as their base grain for most beers.

Craig

Pulled this one out of the fridge this evening.
Still has a great hop aroma.
The hop flavor is there but I think I see what people say about the bite of Chinook. I will continue to use Chinook but will mix it with other types in future beers.
It is a little less bitter than the last taste but still a good bitter IPA. The high FG contributes to a kind of sweetness that I think detracts some what from the hops. I think next time I will use a yeast with a little better attenuation.
Still a very enjoyable beer. I will do something similar with a few tweeks in the future.
Craig

Thanks for the update. I have heard "rough" about chinook sometimes, I used some with cascade in my "experiment" so hopefully it comes out well...

I love cascade- but I'm a chinook wimp! I've been afraid to use much chinook because of the harshness claims. But cascade is so gooooood that I could eat it right out of the bag.

Yooper Chick said:

I love cascade- but I'm a chinook wimp! I've been afraid to use much chinook because of the harshness claims. But cascade is so gooooood that I could eat it right out of the bag.

Click to expand...

I kind of like the bite that Chinook provides but I think it needs to be balanced with other hops for best effect. My next IPA will probably use Centennial and Cascade in addition to the Chinook.
I love my hops. Can't open a bag without taking a big inhale of the aroma.
Craig

An update after a couple months in the bottle:
This stuff is great. The harshness has mellowed out but there is still plenty of hop flavor and aroma. This is easily my favorite batch I have done. IMHO it is better than most commercial IPAs I have had. I like the fuller body and slightly roasty flavor of my beer. For instance, I loved the hops in DFH60 but did not really like the malt flavor of the beer. Its like the initial aroma and flavor was great but the mouthfeel and malt complexity was lacking. Ofcourse, I don't care for any of the pale beers I have had with the exception of a couple Belgians and even with those I usually prefer the ones that are more amber than blonde.

I do have to admit one weakness to the beer and that you can see in the picture above. It is still pretty cloudy. Doesn't hurt the flavor any and doesn't affect my enjoyment but its not award winning.

I have another brown IPA in the fermenter but this one is very different.
Craig

Sounds like it was a winner, recipe wise! Great work, and thanks for the postings along the way! I take it that you give chinook a thumbs-up overall...

LouT said:

Sounds like it was a winner, recipe wise! Great work, and thanks for the postings along the way! I take it that you give chinook a thumbs-up overall...

Click to expand...

Definitely, I will not shy away from using Chinook at any stage in the beer. Will I be making another all Chinook hoppy beer? Not right away, too many other hops to try out
My current IPA (a leftovers batch) has Centennial, Fuggles and EKG. I trying to decide if I should dry hop with Cascade. Right now I am leaning to no. I think the Cascade will wash out the other hops flavors from the Fuggles and EKG, especially when combined with the Cent in the boil.

Craig

Thanks for your chinook diary! I've just bottled An AB clone yesterday myself and also went chinook all the way in the boil. The only difference was dry hopping with an oz of leftover Perle for an aroma boost. Yeah it'll be nasty the first few bottles.

CBBaron said:

Definitely, I will not shy away from using Chinook at any stage in the beer. Will I be making another all Chinook hoppy beer? Not right away, too many other hops to try out
My current IPA (a leftovers batch) has Centennial, Fuggles and EKG. I trying to decide if I should dry hop with Cascade. Right now I am leaning to no. I think the Cascade will wash out the other hops flavors from the Fuggles and EKG, especially when combined with the Cent in the boil.

Craig

Click to expand...

If you use fresh leaf cascades for your dry hopping, I think the fuggles and EKG will hold up fine, and the cascade will ad a nice aroma to round it all out. My last beer had cascade (fresh) and chinook (a tiny amount of pellets) in it for the dry-hopping and it turned out nicely.

Gotta brew this weekend, totally out of homebrew for over a week now, probably need to do a hefe to have it ready sooner:rockin:

LouT said:

If you use fresh leaf cascades for your dry hopping, I think the fuggles and EKG will hold up fine, and the cascade will ad a nice aroma to round it all out. My last beer had cascade (fresh) and chinook (a tiny amount of pellets) in it for the dry-hopping and it turned out nicely.

Gotta brew this weekend, totally out of homebrew for over a week now, probably need to do a hefe to have it ready sooner:rockin:

Click to expand...

Well I ended up dry hopping with the Cascades. I sampled it before transferring it to the secondary and while it had a great taste and smooth bitterness I didn't notice all that much hops in the aroma or flavor. So since I really like to be over powered with hops I went ahead and put the Cascades in the secondary.
I was surprised in the difference between my latest IPA and my first one. Both, according to Beersmith, had a similar color, bitterness and both used English Ale yeasts but my Leftover IPA ended up much dryer and the bitterness at this point was much less harsh.
Craig