Clear candi sugar vs table sugar?

Any difference between clear candi sugar and table sugar?

I betcha if you looked at the similar threads listed at the bottom of your screen you will find the answers you need..especially the last one that looks fairly substantial....If not there's a ton of info on it here, if you search for it...

ehh... not so much info in those threads below. There is one assertion that candi sugar is invert sugar, but another person says it's just sucrose, identical to table sugar.

I would be curious to know for sure whether there is in fact a difference between the two.

Yeah, I didn't really find any very good info in the treads either. Does anybody know for sure?

I will help on the condition that the next candi sugar question some one asks you pay it forward.
Candi sugar is a simple sugar made of short chain molecules therefore easier for yeast to consume and convert to alcohol.
Table sugar is a complex sugar made of long chain molecules therefore more difficult for the yeast to consume.
Conversion from table to candi is easy. heat wet table sugar in the presence of an acid such as lemon juice or cream of tartar until melted and begins to boil. stir often. when the sugar begins to turn yellow it can be poured onto wax paper or a silicone baking mat for cooling. you now have candi sugar also known as invert sugar.
NOTE, DISCLAIMER, WARNING: MELTED SUGAR IS VERY HOT AND STICKY AND CAN CAUSE SEVERE BURNS. CHECK THE WIKI OR OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO PREVENT SERIOUS INJURY.

Thanks beerthirty, I'll do your favor from now on. Sorry for apparently asking another noob question.

There are a few different types of "candi sugar".

In Brew Like Monk, there is a quote from a US brewery that had the solid rock form of candi sugar analyzed and it was 100% crystallized sucrose, which is to say it was table sugar but the granules were larger. In any event, we know that the rock form is not invert sugar because invert sugar does not readily crystallize (this is the property that makes it useful, it makes more shelf stable baked goods).

As per above, sucrose molecules are formed by one glucose molecule and one fructose molecule. This is a disaccharide, just like maltose (two glucose molecules). However, it isn't quite right to talk about yeast eating or metabolizing sucrose, because they don't. They will first invert it using invertase and then metabolize the resulting glucose and fructose. The rate determining step then in sucrose fermentation is inverting. I have seen no evidence that yeast have any problem inverting sucrose in the amounts used in brewing (~20% of fermentables) and all malt wort has a fair amount of sucrose anyway.

Liquid candi sugar is probably partially inverted. It would be hard to tell exactly what it was without direct chemical analysis and it almost certainly varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.

100% inverted syrup is available (it is manufactured in the US and sold to bakers primarily) and probably cheaper than imported liquid candi sugar.

IMO, as long as we are talking about clear sugar, table sugar is the best thing to use. If you really really really want inverted sugar, I would just buy the version of the product sold to bakers.

The dark versions of candi sugar have unique flavors and should be evaluated on that basis.

I've made my own clear invert in the past but I don't bother anymore and just use table sugar.

beerthirty said:

when the sugar begins to turn yellow it can be poured onto wax paper or a silicone baking mat for cooling.

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I'd recommend one small change - do *not*use wax paper, use parchment for baking. The hot sugar will melt that wax easily and your sugar will now have the glorious flavor of a candle. The silicone baking mat is probably the best option, although more expensive.

carl - brewer and baker.

I made some amber candi suagr on Friday for my saturday abbey ale brew. First time doing it, followed the above directions, just let it go a little longer over lower heat and would add some water back if it looked like it was smoking too much. Ended up with beautiful amber candi sugar. I wouldn't do it for clear, just because...why? Same thing, really, not going to affect the beer all that much. But the amber has flavor, and color, so, yeah. I would have preferred dark syrup, but my LHBS isn't that sophisticated.

NewBrew75 said:

Thanks beerthirty, I'll do your favor from now on. Sorry for apparently asking another noob question.

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Hey! Don't apologize! Keep asking, keep learning, keep brewing, keep helping others. That is what we are here for, right?

I learned a lot from this thread, though I have read some similiar threads, and now I have a link to another resource for my library (making belgian candi sugar).

beerthirty said:

Table sugar is a complex sugar made of long chain molecules therefore more difficult for the yeast to consume.

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It was already somewhat pointed out, but table sugar is not a complex sugar made of "long chain molecules." It is a simple disaccharide made from one glucose molecule and one fructose molecule. Yeast have no problem cleaving the saccharide bond between the two (using invertase, as someone said) and metabolizing the resulting mono saccharides. As has been pointed numerous times, clear candi syrup or clear candi sugar is a waste of money (if purchasing) or time (if making).

Adding colour and flavour to the sugar through carmelisation and heat is a different story.

NewBrew75 said:

Any difference between clear candi sugar and table sugar?

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Not in terms of the flavor it gives your beer.

nevermind.....

Pretty much what's been said already. Table sugar where 'Clear' candi is cited. Inversion is easy and carmelization with table sugar, a little acid, some water and then cook it. Keep the heat low and let it roll. I usually do it on brew day as the wort is starting to boil then I just add that into the cooking sugar. That way I don't have to deal with storing it, etc. Dark Candi looks (and sort of tastes on its own) like it would suck but it is really great once it ferments and ages. Hardest part with making your own is estimating how much has been translated into unfermentable from the process. I think the more you cook it the less it yields.

remilard said:

There are a few different types of "candi sugar".

In Brew Like Monk, there is a quote from a US brewery that had the solid rock form of candi sugar analyzed and it was 100% crystallized sucrose, which is to say it was table sugar but the granules were larger. In any event, we know that the rock form is not invert sugar because invert sugar does not readily crystallize (this is the property that makes it useful, it makes more shelf stable baked goods).

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remilard: thanks for this. this is really interesting. So all the people that say that candi sugar is invert sugar, and that you make invert sugar by heating sucrose with lemon juice, are wrong? Invert sugar doesn't crystallize?

If I do the candy-making process, am I really just swapping little crystals of sucrose for big crystals of sucrose?

there seem to be two conflicting accounts here, and they can't both be true. Who here is a legitimate chemist?

RBlagojevich said:

remilard: thanks for this. this is really interesting. So all the people that say that candi sugar is invert sugar, and that you make invert sugar by heating sucrose with lemon juice, are wrong? Invert sugar doesn't crystallize?

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Pretty much so....

RBlagojevich said:

If I do the candy-making process, am I really just swapping little crystals of sucrose for big crystals of sucrose?

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Yep....well, you;re wasting some time and energy, too....

RBlagojevich said:

there seem to be two conflicting accounts here, and they can't both be true. Who here is a legitimate chemist?

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Read "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee.

amazing. I'm never using clear candi sugar again.

RBlagojevich said:

remilard: thanks for this. this is really interesting. So all the people that say that candi sugar is invert sugar, and that you make invert sugar by heating sucrose with lemon juice, are wrong? Invert sugar doesn't crystallize?

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They're not wrong. Perhaps you're confusing crystallize with solidify? Invert sugar can definitely solidify as anyone who's made it knows.

RBlagojevich said:

If I do the candy-making process, am I really just swapping little crystals of sucrose for big crystals of sucrose?

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No, but unless you're also caramelizing, it's a wasted effort. Yeast can invert beet sugar themselves just fine.

Candi sugar is different than Belgian Brewing or Invert sugar. I have heard people claim both ways on taste. Seems to me the difference would be in how much you are using (sugar) and the yeast.

Couldn't we just do an experiment? Take some table sugar, mix it with water to about 1.045 OG, then throw in some yeast and see what happens from there. If the gravity drops significantly, then we probably know for sure, once and for all, that table sugar is just fine. Right? Anybody see why this wouldn't be a legitimate experiment?

I just found this pretty good link on the subject.

Belgian candi vs. table sugar for homebrew beer - Beer, Wine, Homebrew, and Everything Fermentable! - fermentarium.com

NewBrew75 said:

Couldn't we just do an experiment? Take some table sugar, mix it with water to about 1.045 OG, then throw in some yeast and see what happens from there. If the gravity drops significantly, then we probably know for sure, once and for all, that table sugar is just fine. Right? Anybody see why this wouldn't be a legitimate experiment?

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I don't think anyone was actually suggesting that yest will not ferment table sugar so I don't know what you're proving that countless batches of beer brewed with sugar additions already haven't.

brewt00l said:

I don't think anyone was actually suggesting that yest will not ferment table sugar so I don't know what you're proving that countless batches of beer brewed with sugar additions already haven't.

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Actually, you're right. I think I was mistaking "difficult for yeast to consume" for "they don't consume". According to the article I found, off flavors can occur from this "difficulty" of conversion. However, the article sorta made it sound like not many people could detect the off flavors. Since nobody had mentioned it here, I would say that's pretty accurate. I don't think I'll hesitate to use table sugar. And maybe when I'm itching for something brew related to do sometime, I'll make some inverted sugar.

NewBrew75 said:

Actually, you're right. I think I was mistaking "difficult for yeast to consume" for "they don't consume". According to the article I found, off flavors can occur from this "difficulty" of conversion. However, the article sorta made it sound like not many people could detect the off flavors. Since nobody had mentioned it here, I would say that's pretty accurate. I don't think I'll hesitate to use table sugar. And maybe when I'm itching for something brew related to do sometime, I'll make some inverted sugar.

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I think that you'll find that the % of total fermentables represented by sugar will be more critical when it comes to any off flavor production than if it's inverted or not.