Irish Red With Oats - Color Issues/Help

Below is the style guidelines as well as my recipe. All grain. Probably mash around 155-165, haven't decided yet.

STYLE
Irish Red Ale

IBU 17-28
SRM 9-18
OG 1.044 – 1.067
FG 1.010 -1.014
ABV 4-6

My Specs
IBU 24.3
SRM Around 18?
OG 1.060
FG 1.014
ABV 6

MALT BILL

65% Maris Otter......7.5#.... 3.0 SRM... 4.5
20% Munich Malt.... 2.5#.... 9.0 SRM...4.5
05% Honey Malt..... 0.6#.... 25? SRM... 6.2?
10% Flaked Oats.... 1.2#.... ?? SRM... ??
00% Roasted Barley 0.15#... 300 SRM... 9

HOPS
German Hallertau 3.0AA @ 60 boil = 13.5 IBU
German Hallertau 3.0AA @ 30 boil = 10.8 IBU

YEAST
WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast


Little background: 3rd AG. 3rd recipe I've designed on my own and 5th time brewing. So far all my recipes never hit the appropriate color I desire. I'm looking for a beautiful dark red color.

Above i tried to make it look as neat as possible. I searched for the unit color on the wiki. I then multiplied the # by SRM and divided by 5 (total gallon size) to reach the far right numbers. If we add them up, total SRM is 24.2.

I can't find my previous Irish Red notes, but if memory is correct I used Maris Otter, Honey Malt, and Roast Barley. There may have been some 2 Row in there along with the Maris Otter for base malt. The color turned out Copper. This time I decided to try Munich for its darker color, and oats to maybe add a little chewy bread flavor. I don't know how the Oats will effect the color and I'm a little confused about the Honey Malt's color contribution.

Can anyone offer some input as to how the Oats and Honey Malt will contribute to the color? Is that something I should be worried about and rework the recipe? The goal of this brew is not only to experiment with the Oats, but hit a red color, preferably a darker red.

Also, thoughts on the Recipe's selection of Malt, Hops, and Yeast are all welcome for critiquing.

-Bhen

I would use crystal 40 to get the red, not roasted barley. Roasted barley will impart a browner color.

I have yet to use crystal malts, never even thought of it to be honest. So then do you suggest ditching the roasted barley?

I use c-60, Munich, and roasted barley to get the red color. I grind the roasted barley much finer and add it near the end of the mash.

Edit: some more pointers

I prefer using EKG for flavor in an Irish red. Also, use a clean ale strain instead of an Irish ale blend.

Persoanlly, I would ditch the roasted barley and go with a combo of crystal malts. Have you tried using brewing software to match the color you are looking for?

I'll give Crystal Malts a shot. It never occurred to me to try them. I did take a look at some free online software awhile back and wasn't too fond of what i was using. I'll start researching through the Software Available section and try to find something else i like.

Also, i found three other yeast that I may switch out. I'm not very well versed on yeast, when you said clean yeast strain do you mean it finishes clean or it is not a blend of different types of yeast?. Would the British Ale Yeast be an acceptable choice? I'm interested in the malty characteristic as well as the dry finish.

Wyeast 1335 a British Ale Yeast
Wyeast 1056 an American Ale Yeast
Wyeast 1450

Hi,
Just bottled my fourth batch of Irish Red starting with Saccharomyces House Irish Red grain bill and scaling back to 2.5 gal BIAB.

1. First batch as per recipe.
2. Second batch added 1lb of (minute) rice in mash and increased water to compensate.
3. Third batch deleted roasted barley and increased C120.
4. Fourth batch deleted roasted barley and increased C120. Added steeped whole grians including Oats.

With respect to color, the second (rice) batch wins hands down. It is ruby red and perfectly clear. This is also very drinkable. I found the original recipe a little too "coffee" for summer drinking. Batches 3 and four are both browner than the original. Cannot comment on drinkability as they are still conditioning.

I mean has a clean profile...doesn't produce esters. Almost along the lines of a lager.

I couldn't make an Irish red without a little roasted barley...2 ounces in a five gallon batch definitely adds a flavor. Out of those I would choose 1056. I usually go with us05 at 50 F now that it's easier for me to find, but I have used 1056 in the past to similar results. It wont go as cold straight out of smack pack though.

I have also used 2206 (Bavarian lager) to excellent results.

My is a dark red...I can get you the exact percentages if you'd like. And a picture even as I have some on tap right now

I'd love to see it! Both the recipe and the picture!

BluWtrBrew, i'd also like to hear how your batch 4 tastes when its done conditioning with the wholegrain and oats.

So I've tried to do a little reading on the Crystal Malts and it seems the higher the number the darker and more brownish it gets. I downloaded a free trial of BeerSmith 2 and plugged in the recipe. I wound up decreasing some of the base malt since it was starting to get out of style. I decided to leave the roasted barley in. I agree with Dang that I would just feel a little off not having it in there.

So i'm going with 2 oz Roasted Barley and 8oz of Crystal 80L. Does that sound like an acceptable choice? I brew this coming weekend so i'll continue trying to learn more about Crystal Malts until then, but for now i think my recipe will be.

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 59.7 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 21.3 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.5 %
9.6 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.3 %
2.1 oz Roasted Barley (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.1 %

Thanks, to everyone for the input so far!

8.92 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.5 SRM) Grain 89.2 %
0.59 lb Munich Malt - 10L (5.5 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.30 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.19 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 %
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (20 min) Hops 9.1 IBU


Edit: hold on for some pictures
http://76.120.25.34/pics
follow link..select "go to root" theres a flash and no flash pic

I was having some troubles with the link. It wouldn't open, however, i fiddled with it and got it to work. I think i took off the /pics or something. It looked very delicious! I definitely loved the color in the with flash picture.

Having seen it and the recipe together, i may reduce the amount of Crystal 80 to 1/4th of a pound. Thanks again for the help!