Newbie to wine

Ok, I am sure I will take some razzing for this but its ok. I am new to wine and have a silly question. I know I am supposed to hit a certain gravity level before I rack to secondary and start the second step of the process but I ran into a problem. I brewed a batch of beer last week and messed up and used my 6 gallon carboy for the primary. I have no 6 gallon carboy to rack my wine into a secondary so I decided another 6 gallon carboy would come in handy and bought one on line. It probably wont get here by the time my first seven days of my wine kit is done. This is where they say to rack to my secondary. If i leave it in the primary for a few extra days will my wine just become "dry"? It wont really ruin it will it. And as I understand it I can back sweeten a bit if necessary. Is this a correct assumption. I don't want to leave it longer than needed and am not really wanting a dry Shiraz so I guess what I am asking is, what are my options?

You should be fine, you can always backsweeten if it's too dry. A couple of days shouldnt hurt

"Dry" doesn't happen in the primary. Racking at 1.010 is still considered sweet.

All wine will finish dry, unless you can stop the yeast from doing what they do. Back sweetening is how you make is sweet again, but that happens long after fermentation is done.

The reason to move to secondary has to do with the fermentation, and how it produces c02.

For example, I use a big bucket for a primary for wine (kits and regular). Sometimes I just cover it with a towel, as some wines (not kits) need stirring a couple of times per day, to break up the "cap" that can form on it from fruit.

That's actually good for the wine, as the fermentation process produces c02, which is poisonous to yeast in large amounts.

The interesting thing here is that c02 also has a protective effect on wine- by "blanketing" the top so to speak, so that oxygen can't bind with the wine. When fermentation slows, the amount of co2 being produced lessens, and then stops. That is when the wine is vulnerable to oxidation, from oxygen in the headspace. The wine is then transferred to secondary, and airlocked, to prevent risk of oxidation. You can airlock a primary, too, of course, especially for kits or juice wines when you don't have big foamy heads of fruit!

What that all means to you is that there isn't a problem at all waiting a few more days, as there is plenty of c02 in that airlocked headspace.

The wine will ferment as far as it will ferment, whether you rack it or not. You don't control fermentation that way. The wine will almost always go to .990-.996 or so on your hydrometer, regardless of type. It's after fermentation is over, and the wine is clear, that it's stabilized and sweetened.

If i need to back sweeten, how do I go about doing that. I have back sweetened cider with apple cider concentrate, what do I use for wine?

johnsonbrew said:

If i need to back sweeten, how do I go about doing that. I have back sweetened cider with apple cider concentrate, what do I use for wine?

Click to expand...

It's done the same way, with added stabilizers (sorbate and campden), then sweetened to taste. Some people use sugar syrup or honey.

Wine kits have a F-pack with them that has the sweetener and stabilizers in them.

A really common way is to "back sweeten". What that is is holding back some of the must before pitching the yeast, and freezing it. Once the wine is stabilized, the frozen must is thawed and added to the wine.

That's what the word "back sweeten" means. If you're adding a sweetener to a finished wine, it's just "sweetening". Back sweetening means using the same must to sweeten the wine. I think people in this forum tend to use the terms interchangeably, so it can be confusing.

so i would use frozen grape juice or buy similar juice concentrate from my LHBS to back sweeten? Or are you saying that the kit that I bought already has the sweetner added to it?

johnsonbrew said:

so i would use frozen grape juice or buy similar juice concentrate from my LHBS to back sweeten? Or are you saying that the kit that I bought already has the sweetner added to it?

Click to expand...

Your kit, if it has an F-pack in it, has it already. I have no idea which kit you have, so I don't know. But if you look in the box, you should see it if it's there.

They are just labeled 1,2,3 and so on, I will do more investigating

johnsonbrew said:

They are just labeled 1,2,3 and so on, I will do more investigating

Click to expand...

Oh, then if you had one you'd know! They are clearly labeled. That means you must have a kit for a dry wine.

If you really don't want it dry, you can sweeten it before bottling so don't worry!

Its a shiraz
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ELJJVU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 first time so i wanted cheap and most shiraz seemed to be sweet to me so that is what i went with. Thanks for the help, I kinda jumped into this lol

As far as I know, all shiraz wine is dry...very dry.

It seems to be middle of the road from what my experience is, but it is limited and I do not spend a lot $ on purchasing of wine. It seems to be the type my wife likes best so that is why I started with it. I guess the grand experiment will play itself out in time. Thanks for putting up with me, I am enjoying the education I am receiving!

DoctorCAD said:

As far as I know, all shiraz wine is dry...very dry.

Click to expand...

Yes, shiraz is noted to be bone dry, but fruity. It's a rather bold red wine usually.

Ok, so I racked to secondary, I am not overly impressed with the flavor and even less so with the smell of the wine. I cannot imagine that it got infected or something, I am pretty good about sanitation and all. The flavor is ok, I really do not know what to expect since this is my first wine, but the scent is just "different". I cannot even begin to explain it, it is kind of a plasticy scent. I seem to remember a similar one when I did some cider last fall. I did not become a big fan of my cider either, although I got good reviews from others which proves "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Can anyone explain to begin to explain what I can expect in terms of smell from the wine after 8 days of primary fermentation. I racked to secondary and am going to wait a couple weeks before I do anything else. My gravity was at 1.00 so I know it pretty much was close to fermenting out. I know smell has a lot to do with finishing taste so if it smells bad I am afraid it won't taste very good either. Are there any fixes I can do at this point or is not a wait and see game.
On another note, my plastic bucket smells like me wine does not, which was not the issue to start. Do your fermentation vessels take on the smell of your wine and will it go away after a while or does your wine making equipment just take on the smell of wine?

Eight days in on a low end kit wine, or any wine for that matter, is far too soon to even attempt to determine finishing taste or aroma. It should taste/smell like your yeast with some characteristics of the grape. But goodness knows about the grapes used in the kit. Being brutally honest.
While this is noted to be a 4-week kit, it simply means that it COULD likely be bottled at that point. It does not mean it SHOULD be bottled or even consumed at that point. Bulk age for a good six months, making sure it is degassed and clear, and then sample & decide if you need to sweeten it up to your wife's liking. Right now that must is raw. Your SG is 1.000 and as noted it may drop a few more points....you have nothing but time.

As far as plastic-y aroma, dedicated winemaking primary buckets do not usually impart odors into your must. They should not retain winemaking odors either. Is this a food-grade fermentation bucket? Was it used for anything other than winemaking? Combining brewing buckets/non-glass carboys can cause off-odors, or so I am told. Plus, many brewers/cidermakers use bleach containing products in cleansing/sanitizing routine & that is a cardinal sin in winemaking due to potential for TCA/cork taint.
The kit concentrate was stored in a vacuum packed plastic bag. And some kits just have a 'kit smell', it never goes away. But I cannot describe the kit smell because I have never experienced it even though I have made a handful of kits.

I know you did not ask, but I wanted to present a realistic point of view....I would rack in about a month and then rack about every two months until no lees develop for 60d since last racking. You need wine to be degassed, clear & sediment free before you stabilize for sweetening (think 4-6 months from now & about three more rackings), then wait at least two weeks after stabilizing/sweetening and rack one last time, and then bottle. Wait about 6 weeks for newly bottled wine to adjust and then open one. People have reported mixed results about this brand, shared on WMT-HBT-WP US, but be prepared to 'get what you paid for'.
In closing, if you think you would like to backsweeten you should check www.homewinery.com, they carry many varieties of grape/non-grape concentrates, including syrah.

Wow, that is a ton of information. Thank you so much for taking the time to help explain things a bit. I really appreciate all the experience and advice people are willing to provide on here.

My equipment is brewing equipment that had never been used. It had been stored for a number of years but other than dust it was all really clean. I washing it out real well, gave it a nice lone rinse to get all the soap out and then sanitized it before using it. I am fairly confident that it was clean and sanitized before starting.

I know I am rushing things a bit, this was something I kind of started on a whim in an effort to have a good supply of wine for our summer gatherings. I never expected it to be tremendous, but I have sampled some friends wine that he finished in about 6 weeks and was impressed on how "good" it was in such a short period of time. If this worked out close to what I was expecting, I was going to to get started on a second batch and let it age much longer, more into the 4-6 month range as you suggested. I didn't want to spend a large amount on a kit for my first batch, but am willing to spend more so long as this works out.
I am taking a sample of what I have so far to a buddy today who has done this same kit to see if it is close to what he had when he was done with primary. I am crossing my fingers in hopes of it still being ok. I will see how it goes.

So you don't need to seal up your wine in primary? How do you know when its ready to go in a secondary? Stirring isn't evil? Hahaha!