Starter not Starting

I made my first starter Saturday morning. (about 1 cup LME & 1000 ml h20). The yeast was a wYeast slap pack w/ a date of 3/2005. I figured it might be slow to get started, but now I am concerned that the yeasties may be dead. No activity at all thus far. Here's a visual. Should I give it some more time or repitch?

Did you activate the smack pack before you pitched it in the starter? Have you done anything to shake the starter up since Sat morning?

If you didn't smack it, did you at least dump the contnts of both parts of the pack? You should have foam if you put live yeast in there.

I smacked it and let it sit for 6 hours before pitching the yeast. I gave it a little swirl yesterday after I didn't see any activity.

I take it that the pack didn't swell up then beforey you pitched it. This would be an indication that the yeast was dead if it didn't sell at least a little after 6 hours.

JillC25 said:

The yeast was a wYeast slap pack w/ a date of 3/2005.

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I don't know about wyeast, but white labs says that their best used date is 4 months after bottling. If it's the same for wyeast that would make yours almost a year old...RIP.

On the up side tho...that's why you make a starter. You only wasted a cup of DME...not a whole batch of beer.

It has taken over 6 hours to swell on me before. I could be wrong, but I thought you were supposed to give it some time if it has a later expiration date.

JillC25 said:

It has taken over 6 hours to swell on me before. I could be wrong, but I thought you were supposed to give it some time if it has a later expiration date.

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You are supposed to give it some time, but 60 hours is a lot of time. Try shaking the snot out of it every hour for three or four, then see if there's any sign of activity in the morning.

It's dead Jim! I mean, Jill. You've given it more than enough time. Sometimes liquid yeasts don't make it and your's was fairly old. Smack pacs can take 24 hours, but five days? It's dead.

yep, i think it's a gonner too. like el pistolero said, just start over and be glad it was a starter and not 5 gallons!
did you just buy that smack pack? if so, i think i'd have a chat w/ the HBS. or better yet, find a new one.

I'd definitely go back to the HBS and ask for a replacement. If it wasn't forthcoming, I'd consider taking my business elsewhere. I've gotten home and realized mine was a month past the date before, but found it viable. Since then I always check the date when I'm buying a yeast pack.

thanks guys- i'm going to go give my startless starter a proper burial

~~~flush~~~

Wait... how was the LME wasted? I mean couldn't she just get another yeast and toss that in and get it going?

Windaria said:

Wait... how was the LME wasted? I mean couldn't she just get another yeast and toss that in and get it going?

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I suppose you could, but as it is not actively fermenting it is certainly (more) susceptible to contamination. 6 oz or so of DME is pretty cheap in that respect, and making a new starter is pretty quick business. Also, I'm not really sure if there are any by-products from dead yeast that could affect the situation...perhaps not.

BeeGee said:

I suppose you could, but as it is not actively fermenting it is certainly (more) susceptible to contamination. 6 oz or so of DME is pretty cheap in that respect, and making a new starter is pretty quick business. Also, I'm not really sure if there are any by-products from dead yeast that could affect the situation...perhaps not.

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to cheap and easy to start over. if you were in a pinch i guess you could re-use the bunk starter, but why take a chance? your looking at maybe a total of $8-$10 dollars and 45 minutes of your time to start all over on the starer......

david_42 said:

It's dead Jim! I mean, Jill. You've given it more than enough time. Sometimes liquid yeasts don't make it and your's was fairly old. Smack pacs can take 24 hours, but five days? It's dead.

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Some info I read a few weeks ago said you need to give the smack-pack one day to incubate for every month since packaging. So, packaged on 3/2005 would mean you need a full week between smacking and pitching into the starter.

However, these same references said that after about 6 months, the yeast might be useless.

-walker

walker,

That is the same thing i read: 1 day for each month. That said, they did give me a pretty old slap pack. I got this beer kit in august (yes it has taken me a while to get to it) and the date on the pack was 3-2005- Which is old even if i had used it right away. I put it in the fridge until i was ready to make my starter last weekend. I didn't bother tossing it last night: I'll let it sit till I do make a new starter, but I do agree w/ most that have posted. It's dead :cross:

i wrote an email to the company- have not heard anything back about getting a replacement

best adcive: don't buy expired yeast and don't buy from HBS that sell it. if the yeast is old, how old do you think the grains and extract are?

DeRoux's Broux said:

if the yeast is old, how old do you think the grains and extract are?

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true. the other kit i bought from them turned out ok, but, you're right, I don't think I'll be going back there.

The HBS is sending me another slap pack. I told the guy what happened. He claims he has used WYeast Slap packs over 18 months past the manufactures date and did not think that it had anything to do with it being "old" yeast. He thought something in shipping, or maybe something I did. Regardless, just thought it was interesting after hearing all of the posts on this board talking about the age of the yeast being the issue. Who knows?? At least I am getting some more

Age is always a consideration, but many liquid yeasts will die if the temperature gets over 90F. Which is really odd, as most dry yeasts are re-hydrated at 90-95. For such wee beasties, they certainly are complicated.