A two part question on the ingredient kits

First question: I assume that most home brewers start out using the ingredient kits. About how many kits did most of you brew before trying your first brew from scratch?

Second question: When I first bought all my brewing gear the guy at the LHBS told me that almost everyone starts out with the ingredient kits, then move on to brewing from scratch, and then return to the kits as they are easier and just about as good as the scratch beer. Any truth to this?

1) I did 4 kits then moved to all grain
2) I'm not sure what is meant by scratch beer. does this mean formulating your own recipe? or moving to all-grain?
I think that if it means formulating your own, people probably do some kits, some made up recipe's. if you mean moving to all grain, I would imagine that some do occassional kits, but most buy ingredients seperately to reduce cost.

By scratch I meant to buy the ingredients separately.

I've never brewed a "kit". I get all my recipes from various sources and buy my ingredients in bulk.

I've brewed two kits and my next batch is a recipe I've come up with. I'm also doing a stovetop partial mash. I don't think I'll ever go back to a kit. I have nothing against them, but I prefer the freedom of designing my own recipe or even just picking a good one from here. Also, as long as I don't completely screw up the partial mash, that's going to be a money saver and will provide me with some more freedom and control in my recipes as well.

I think I did maybe three kits. I don't know too many people who ever go back to the kits, other than maybe buy something from AHS or NB or one of the other major suppliers on occassion (their kits are pretty highly regarded, they're "real" recipes made with fresh ingredients, they aren't sitting around the shelf for six months). Don't know anyone who goes back to the Brewer's Best kits, or the beer-in-a-can kits (I never did one of those). Most people, once they start brewing LOVE the whole process, including researching recipes and developing their own. You'll find a lot of really interesting recipes around here, and you'll have your own ideas that don't fit into what the HBS is selling on a prepackaged basis.

the_bird said:

Most people, once they start brewing LOVE the whole process, including researching recipes and developing their own. You'll find a lot of really interesting recipes around here, and you'll have your own ideas that don't fit into what the HBS is selling on a prepackaged basis.

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+1 to that. I can't brew every day, but it seems I'm researching and designing a new recipe every couple days. I don't even save them unless I'm planning to brew them soon. I enjoy the design process enough that I don't care about having to redo it.

well made kits make fantastic beer.

I started at a time when good kits were not widely available. So I was making beer from recipes in books and experimenting with my own recipes. For many years I looked down on kits as being inferior. They aren't! After the last good local shop in my area closed, I started buying all my stuff online and got into the kits. Kits from morebeer, AHS, Nothern Brewer, etc... are very well put together recipes that can make awesome award wining beer.

Just recently I'm moving back to recipes from books and buying in bulk. But It's not because kits are bad. It's because you can save some money when buying in bulk.

I did 3 Brewer's Best kits then moved on to buying ingredients separately from recipes. I'm not up to the level of making my own just yet. I'm sure I could piece stuff together from a couple recipes (grain from 1, hops from another), but I'm not near ready to just walk in and go... ummm... gimmie some of this... and some of that...

My LHBS is going to start to put together their own kits, which will be cool. You walk in and say 'give me this' and then they will have it all pre determined. So, you walk in and say 'give me this kit' and they will mill the grains and box it up for you right then. Nothing sitting on shelves for months on end.

I think both Palmer (How to Brew) and Mosher (Radical Brewing) give first-timer recipes to use instead of kits. This seems fine to me, and they let you pick your own hops, which is fun.

I'd hold off on full recipe development a bit, but there are some recipes that are easy to brew, and some kits that pose challenges.

I should have mentioned that when I designed a recipe that I didn't use any ingredients that I didn't see in well reviewed recipes of the same style, and that I posted it in the recipe feedback section to make sure it was okay. I'm certainly not ready to sit down and write a recipe without looking at other recipes for reference and without getting it reviewed first by people that are smarter than I am.

Another book for recipes that is highly recommended is "Brewing Classic Styles"

Also, "Designing Great Beers"

& if your into Belgians check out "Brew Like a Monk"

Do you homework. I find lots of new brewers go crazy and start making recipes that suck ass and then blame it on their process. At least with the kits your starting with good ingredients and you can just work on perfecting your process.

I pretty much did 0 kits. I got a Mr Beer with West Coast Pale Ale. After reading reviews I quickly realized I don't want to make their basic WCPA - so after reading this forum I tossed the booster for DME and decided to add in a 1/4 pound of American 2-row and Crystal 20 just to see what happens. Did some extra hopping as well.

I basically turned their really really light Pale Ale into a slightly darker, slightly hoppier, slightly higher ABV Pale Ale.

But don't ask me how it tastes, it's sitting in the primary fermenter waiting for bottling

It might not end up having perfect balance and surely wouldn't win any awards. But it's my damn recipe and I can't wait to taste it and modify as necessary.

I did one extract brew before moving to AG. I have never used a kit and I have never tried to replicate anyone's recipe. All of my beers are designed by me. Granted I do use books, other recipes, etc. for guidance. I prefer to either sink or swim on my own merit as well as I enjoy trying to piece together ingredients or styles on my own. To me recipe design is a puzzle trying to figure out what goes with what. Some are bad (Extract Irish Red) and some are good (English Best Bitter).

I've done 4 kits so far, but I plan on changing it up soon and purchasing some ingredients and trying to make something on my own. I plan to buy a couple 1 gallon carboys and making a couple batches to test things out. I'll probably still do a couple more kits later for 5 gallon batches until I become comfortable with the brewing process and in really understanding recipes. I'd like to know I can brew good beer first from kits, then work on making changes. If you change to much all at once, it will be very hard for you to understand what you did wrong...and quite frankly you might get frustrated!

As far as I can tell buying kits from northern brewery (only place I've bought so far) It seems like what you get in the box, would be the same as if you just went out and bought the ingredients separately for that exact recipe anyway. Its just packaged easier for you, and you only get the exact amount of stuff you need (no left overs). So in a sense just using someones recipe imo is just like buying a kit. Moving up to the next level is completely designing a recipe on your own.

I really want to try an AG batch, but I need to spend the $ on the extra equipment which I can't do at the moment. But i'm in no rush... got my whole life to brew