Feedback on my IPA recipe

Hey guys,

I am getting ready to order the ingredients to make 4 batches of IPA based off of some recipes I came up with. This is the first time I have attempted to come up with my own recipes. I am doing this to learn on my own how different hop schedules and different types of malt extract create different flavors. I want to compare 4 batches with pretty close ingredients, only switching a few things around to see how it influences the flavor. The 4 recipes are essentially the same ingredients, the only difference being darker Caramel grain, darker malt extract and different hop schedules.

Here are my recipes, let me know what you think and if I should change anything:

#1. Lighter colored, more hop flavor IPA

9 lbs Pilsen Light Liquid Malt Extract (made by Briess for Midwest Supplies)
8 oz Carapils grain
8 oz Caramel 10L
1 lb corn sugar
1 tsp Irish Moss
1.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (Bittering, 60 min)
2.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (Flavoring, 30 min)
4 oz Cascade leaf hops 7.4% AA (dry hopped in secondary for 2 weeks)
White Labs WL001 California Ale Yeast

#2. Lighter colored, more hop bitterness IPA

9 lbs Pilsen Light Liquid Malt Extract (made by Briess for Midwest Supplies)
8 oz Carapils grain
8 oz Caramel 10L
1 lb corn sugar
1 tsp Irish Moss
2.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (Bittering, 60 min)
1.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (Flavoring, 30 min)
4 oz Cascade leaf hops 7.4% AA (dry hopped in secondary for 2 weeks)
White Labs WL001 California Ale Yeast

#3. Darker colored, more hop flavor IPA

9 lbs Amber Liquid Malt Extract (made by Briess for Midwest Supplies)
8 oz Carapils grain
8 oz Caramel 60L
1 lb corn sugar
1 tsp Irish Moss
1.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (60 min)
2.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (30 min)
4 oz Cascade leaf hops 7.4% AA (dry hopped in secondary for 2 weeks)
White Labs WL001 California Ale Yeast

#4. Darker colored, more hop bitterness IPA

9 lbs Amber Liquid Malt Extract (made by Briess for Midwest Supplies)
8 oz Carapils grain
8 oz Caramel 60L
1 lb corn sugar
1 tsp Irish Moss
2.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1 %AA (60 min)
1.5 oz Cascade pellet hops 7.1% AA (30 min)
4 oz Cascade leaf hops 7.4% AA (dry hopped in secondary for 2 weeks)
White Labs WL001 California Ale Yeast


All 4 batches will use a glass carboy with blow off tubing for primary fermentation. I anticipate approximately 2 weeks for primary fermentation at around 68 degrees F. Then it will get transferred to a plastic bucket fermenter and the 4 oz of dry leaf hops will be added for another 2 weeks. Finally it will be bottle conditioned using 5 oz of corn sugar. The 1 lb of corn sugar is added during the original boil to increase alcohol. I'm looking for approximately 8.5% alcohol by volume.

I'm considering replacing the Caramel 60L with 120L to make it really dark. Would that change the flavor too much? Is 4 oz too much to dry hop with?

If it was me brewing, I would not use 100% Cascade for all four batches. Regardless of color, the taste will be fairly similar for all of them. Mixing in some others, like Simcoe, Amarillo, Columbus and some others will give you some more taste variation.

Another suggestion is to only use light extract as a base for your beers, and use specialty grains to add color and flavor. When you use amber extract or darker, you're not sure what they've added or in what quantities.

Also, have you considered doing this experiment in smaller quantities, say 1/2 batches?

Cheers!

I like the 1/2 batch suggestion, and also the suggestion to incorporate some other hop flavors, and the stick with light ME and get the color and flavor from steeping grains. In addition, I would recommend spreading out the late hop additions, I have read that 20 minutes is peak flavor, and 2-5 is peak for aroma. I usually do additions at 60, 20, 10, 2, and DH an IPA. I am not sure 4 oz of whole leaf is going to give you a noticable bump over 1 or 2, and you are going to lose a gallon of beer. I have a hard time getting the cones in and out of my carboys, so I don't like whole leaf for dry-hopping.

Why the corn sugar? I have used sugar in only two different beers over the years, and that was for a triple and an IIPA. I know it boosts ABV, but why not use malt extract to get your fermentables?

I am not a fan of dark extract in anything except darker, sweeter beers. But if you want to do it, I don't see a problem with it.

Your #1 and #2 recipes look exactly the same. Hops added at 30 minutes are still bittering additions. For flavor, I'd use hops at 20 minutes or less.

4 ounces of bittering for the beer is alot, especially without a malt backbone to balance it out. The second one looks like it'll be more bitter, but I didn't run the numbers through any software. If you have some brewing software, that can help you decide the right amount of hops by giving you the approximate IBUs.

Spread out your later additions. That's how the big boys layer hops, rather than just hitting you with a single addition at 30 minutes. 30 minutes is actually more bitterness than flavor. 20,15,10,5,1 are good times for additions. I also agree with dropping the corn sugar. It's fine to have on hand if your gravity is a couple points short near the end of the boil, but if you're way off, use dry malt extract.

Four ounces of leaf hops in the secondary? That would be nuts. How do you get your beer out? I used one ounce of leaf for dry hopping and had a heck of a time getting my beer out.

Thanks everyone for all the great replies!

I will definitely change up the hop addition times and layer them out for more flavor. Probably 60 minutes then 20 minutes. If I'm dry hopping is there any point in adding hops to the boil at 5 or 2 minutes for aroma, or can I skip that addition?

I was using only Cascade hops because they're on sale at Midwest right now. They're really cheap if you buy a whole pound. $16 for a pound of pellets and $22 for a pound of leaf hops.

I guess 4 oz's to dry hop with is overkill, I was mainly doing it because I'll have a pound on hand and was going to make 4 batches, so 4 oz's per batch would use them all up. I can always just throw them in the fridge and use 2 oz's per dry hop instead of 4. I use a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket for my secondary so I didn't think it'd be a problem getting them out, but you guys are right, it's overkill. I didn't think about the fact that I'd lose more beer by dry hopping 4 oz's instead of 2.

The corn sugar was simply to boost the alcohol content. I like big beers. I figured 9 lbs of LME would provide more than enough flavor and it's cheaper to add some corn sugar instead of more extract. I know that makes me sound like a commercial yellow beer corporation, but I thought that 9 lbs of extract would be more than enough flavor and I didn't want to overdo it.

I thought about doing smaller batches, and I still might. We average 1 batch a week and it gets drank as quickly as it becomes available, but for my "experiment" smaller batches might be the ticket.

The reason for the amber malt extract was just to make a really dark brew and compare it to the same ingredients except using light malt extract. I wanted to test whether they tasted the same even though one is way darker. I assume they will be nearly the same but there has to be some sort of flavor difference. If I can achieve the same effect using darker caramel malt then I may just go ahead and use light LME for all the batches.

Thanks again for all the replies, I'm really excited to do some hands on learning!

cascade isn't my favorite hop. get something more aromatic in there like a simcoe or something as people have suggested. the idea of a single hop ale is convenient, but i've had some single hop IPAs from Mikeller and the cascade was the absolute worst of them (Warrior being the best imo). Why not just, if you want to use a ton of them, to 2oz/2oz/2oz and same some for later? it'll still be heavily hopped and you've saved something for another brew.

Why corn sugar? I know it's cheap and convenient, but it isn't giving you anything worthwhile other than an abv boost. Why not something more substantial like honey, agave syrup, maple syrup, or just straight up malt extract that you're already using? Why not just a pound or two of base malt? Wheat malt? It just feels like you're cheating your recipe and taking a shortcut. How about raw sugar or something like panela or jaggery? at least they'd add character instead of nothing but alcohol.

also, all 4 variations you have there will produce 4 very similar beers with only color being the major factor.

I kinda like the sugar addition. I never get good attenuation with extract beers, so a little sugar thins it out a bit. Otherwise they end up too chewey. I like Cascade, its used in many many hoppy american beers, but agree, these are going to all be pretty similar. I would try using a couple different yeast, or maybe switch up something else in the recipes.

I'm not opposed to adding something other than corn sugar, I just picked it because it would add more alcohol and that's it. If I add more malt extract the beer will get more and more malty, and I'll have to add more hops to get the same bitterness, right? I had thought about belgian candi sugar, but at $5 a pound I wasn't sure it was worth it, and I wasn't sure what kind of characteristic it would add to the brew.

My main goal in doing this experiment is to learn to decipher hop flavor vs. hop bitterness. This may sound stupid...I know what the bitterness is but I'm not so sure I know exactly what the flavor of hops taste like. I want to have 2 beers of exactly the same process and ingredients, the only difference being one has minimal hop additions for flavoring and the other has a lot more hop additions for flavoring.