Howto: Capture Wild Yeast

turkey baster.

I just use the end of a teaspoon.

Quick update:

I made up a new batch of extremely hopped wort and added it after decanting most of the old wort out. Left for a trip to Vegas and here's what I found. This had been sitting out for 6 days.



Looks about ready to drink right?

So the wife gave me the whole "If it's growing yeast then thats fine. But if it's growing *that* then I want my tupperware back." And down the drain it goes. Next time I'll be sure to add some gelatin to the wort and see if I can pick the colonies I want to add to the starter. It's been a fun, if eventually unproductive trip. Definitely going to keep my eye on this thread though, lots of interesting stuff.

A shame.that looks like a nice pellicle.

Such a great thread... I started this about 6 days ago... here's a pic at day 3



Then I went out of town and came back at day 6



What on God's green earth is that? haha... it smells exactly like a nice cows milk cheese. Even my 8 yr old son, when asked to close his eyes and smell, said , "it smells like stinky moldy cheese."

Anyone? Further, what do I do with it? Either way, fun experiment. I'm gonna let it ride.

Meatwad

meatwad said:

Such a great thread... I started this about 6 days ago... here's a pic at day 3

Then I went out of town and came back at day 6

What on God's green earth is that? haha... it smells exactly like a nice cows milk cheese. Even my 8 yr old son, when asked to close his eyes and smell, said , "it smells like stinky moldy cheese."

Anyone? Further, what do I do with it? Either way, fun experiment. I'm gonna let it ride.

Meatwad

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Looks like mold, at least some of it. I have seen yeasts forming this structural pellicle though. Indeed, let it ride for a little bit. Maybe when it starts to go out of control you can do something about it.

Make a milk stout wort, inoculate with that, call it a "Cheese Stout".

Does temperature matter when capturing the yeast ? It's 81 degrees here most of the day. That's way higher than i ferment anything just wondered if that matters when you try to catch to capture the wild yeast

Nope.

cracked my first 100% wild... clearly brett, crystal clear,(flocced well) very slow to carb mostly because I let it ferment out for six months before bottling. I have a saison going w this yeast but im glad I have it saved, it'll get used again.

keel the wild alive!

meatwad said:

Such a great thread... I started this about 6 days ago... here's a pic at day 3

Then I went out of town and came back at day 6

What on God's green earth is that? haha... it smells exactly like a nice cows milk cheese. Even my 8 yr old son, when asked to close his eyes and smell, said , "it smells like stinky moldy cheese."

Anyone? Further, what do I do with it? Either way, fun experiment. I'm gonna let it ride.

Meatwad

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I also agree that the green and yellow patches look like mold. Is it really those colors or is that just bad lighting?

You should be able to rack out from under the pellicle and try adding some fresh wort so you can keep it mold-free. The cheese smell is most likely diacetyl and various other off products from bacteria in the culture. Depending on what you have there you may be able to get the yeast to absorb the diacetyl over time, especially if there's brett and brett continues to feed on it. There's also a possibility there is too much diacetyl to absorb for a really long time.

I tried culturing wild yeast and got a ton of diacetyl. Even after several months of brett activity the diacetyl was still extremely noticeable. I ended up dumping the last few bottles. I saved some of the cake in my fridge and went to dump it out a few months ago thinking I wouldn't want more butter beer. I smelled the mason jar after dumping and it had a delicious cherry pie-like tartness and no butter aroma. So I guess a couple years of brett fermentation would have produced something great. Fortunately I just found some frozen culture in my frozen yeast bank so I'll see if I can reproduce it.

meatwad said:

Meatwad

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W T F

Looks a bit too...organized...for comfort. Send off to a lab for analysis, I think you just captured an alien microorganism.

Looks like a combination of the inside of an orange and an animal's intestines.

I have some promising jars I'm about to step up, then hopefully brew with them. One of the jars in the 193yr old cellar has a nice fruity and apple smell to it. The other good one is hard to describe, but could be good. Smells fine. Going to step them up before I taste them. I think all the jars had nasty mold at some point. I just removed it, decanted most of the liquid, added more wort. Some others smelled good at some point (well most did), but didn't show much fermentation. Still trying to get out to an old country farmhouse in our family to capture some as well.

ericd said:

W T F

Looks a bit too...organized...for comfort. Send off to a lab for analysis, I think you just captured an alien microorganism.

Looks like a combination of the inside of an orange and an animal's intestines.

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It's just a biofilm with mold growing on top Bacteria and yeast can make some pretty interesting patterns!

ODaniel said:

One of the jars in the 193yr old cellar has a nice fruity and apple smell to it....Still trying to get out to an old country farmhouse in our family to capture some as well.

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You seem to be thinking that old buildings will house interesting yeast. I suppose I can't offer solid evidence to the contrary, but keep in mind that yeast dies fairly quickly unless they are reproducing. The living yeast in your cellar has likely just been carried in on a dust particle from outside. The most likely places to find wild yeast are areas visited by insects near hardwood trees in the spring and near fruiting plants in the fall.

drummstikk said:

You seem to be thinking that old buildings will house interesting yeast. I suppose I can't offer solid evidence to the contrary, but keep in mind that yeast dies fairly quickly unless they are reproducing. The living yeast in your cellar has likely just been carried in on a dust particle from outside. The most likely places to find wild yeast are areas visited by insects near hardwood trees in the spring and near fruiting plants in the fall.

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Yes I know, which is why I only set 2 out of 9 jars in the cellar. The rest of the jars were around trees, raspberry bushes, gardens, etc. It was partially the novelty, partially because I happen to be there already, and partially experimentation and curiosity. As for the other farmhouse, I wasn't planning on putting anything in that house, just around the farm. That house is relatively new. I want to brew a legitimate Kentucky Farmhouse Ale, and since both places are in our family, it would be cool to make some beer from the yeast around those properties. Also, yeast doesn't just die quickly and is gone forever if not reproducing. There have been numerous extremely old yeasts that have been stepped up - shipwreck bottles, 45 million year old amber, etc.

I actually came back to this thread to say the other jar from the cellar is now fermenting strong like the other. It was slowly producing CO2, now it finally has a bunch of bubbles and smells pretty nice. Stepping them all up tonight.

ODaniel said:

There have been numerous extremely old yeasts that have been stepped up - shipwreck bottles, 45 million year old amber, etc.

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True that. I don't mean there won't be any yeast in your cellar. I just mean that's not a great place to look for wild yeast. You're more likely to find old domesticated yeast there, if you're not just catching yeast that blows in from outside.

But none of us really knows if the yeast we're catching is wild, feral, or domesticated anyway. We don't have the money to pay for a genome sequence or a genomic tiling array. So do whatever makes you happy!

Yea all I care about is capturing some from the air that makes damn good beer. That's my goal. I don't really care what it is at this point.

I do find it odd that the 2 jars from the basement turned out to be the best smelling ones that fermented, and were less prone to mold. Part of the basement floor was also wet. Maybe someone in the house years ago fermented something in the basement. The jar I had by the outside cellar entrance was actually one of the worst ones. That door is never really opened though since you can get there from inside as well.

I think you've found your answer. Just use the two cultures and be thankful for them, but don't expect similar results from similar areas. It was a lucky find, and even if you do find a nice Saccharomyces from the air, you'll also undoubtedly grab a whole host of every other thing that eats sugars, which is great if you want a pLambic or another sour ale, but the longer you leave a bottle of wild beer, the funkier, thinner-bodied and the sourer it will be.

I don't believe I had a question.. and yes, I know - all of that. I am more than familiar with wild beers. That is the point of this experiment.

I am stepping them up into quart jars now, then I am going to brew a batch and split into 1gal jugs after they ferment and settle. Those will sit for awhile then I will bottle to see how they progress. Hoping to start the experiment over again soon to see what else I can get.

From left to right: Jar near raspberry bushes (the other jar near them was bad), Jar on a porch under a big tree (crystal clear, had a strong fermentation), 2 cellar jars (hazy but you can see through them).

ODaniel said:

I don't believe I had a question.. and yes, I know - all of that. I am more than familiar with wild beers. That is the point of this experiment.

I am stepping them up into quart jars now, then I am going to brew a batch and split into 1gal jugs after they ferment and settle. Those will sit for awhile then I will bottle to see how they progress. Hoping to start the experiment over again soon to see what else I can get.

From left to right: Jar near raspberry bushes (the other jar near them was bad), Jar on a porch under a big tree (crystal clear, had a strong fermentation), 2 cellar jars (hazy but you can see through them).

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Sorry dude, didn't mean to offend you. I try not to assume things unless I know where people are at. I suppose I can only wish you luck trying to catch nice things and avoiding the spoilage bacteria that come from what I assume is a fairly warm American climate currently. Personally I'm looking forward the upcoming winter to set my cultures out. good luck!

ODaniel said:

Yea all I care about is capturing some from the air that makes damn good beer.

I do find it odd that the 2 jars from the basement turned out to be the best smelling ones that fermented, and were less prone to mold.

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This is consistent with contamination by a domesticated strain from your brewery. Did you do unopened controls to make sure you're not just growing WLP001?

This sounds awesome. But I am so new to this that I have questions.

A) Is there a way to make without using prepackaged dry malt extract? (if I'm going to go all medieval and "do it myself" I might as well do the whole thing from scratch scratch, right?)
B) would this type of yeast be good for Mead?

drummstikk said:

This is consistent with contamination by a domesticated strain from your brewery. Did you do unopened controls to make sure you're not just growing WLP001?

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And do a positive control too, with yeast you use a lot. Unopened controls only give info about if the contamination is already in the jar. Still a good control though, dont get me wrong.

I brewed a brown porter (OG 1.053) this weekend. After getting my original gravity reading, I neglected to empty the test jar. A little more than 24 hours later, I noticed it had krausen on top. This was in my garage in which the door had been closed since I finished brewing. I was a bit surprised and a little concerned. I guess it's just this time of year. Well, if a few spores got into my carboy, I'm very hopeful that my Notty got a good head start on it.

Anyway, I decided to pour it into a little mason jar, left the lid screwed on very loosely, and brought it inside to a relatively dark corner. I'm planning to taste it when it is done.

SandorClegane said:

This sounds awesome. But I am so new to this that I have questions.

A) Is there a way to make without using prepackaged dry malt extract? (if I'm going to go all medieval and "do it myself" I might as well do the whole thing from scratch scratch, right?)
B) would this type of yeast be good for Mead?

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You could go the whole nine yards and make up an all grain lambic wort if you really wanted to. Anything will do for the capturing part, really. Also, the yeast you catch would probably not have the abv tolerance to do a mead justice; wine and mead yeast is usually Saccharomyces cereviseae variant ellipsoideus, I think, which has a abv tolerance much higher than beer/wild yeasts.

You could always make a low abv mead and then blend it a high abv mead from a commercial yeast.

But please, give it a try and let us know how It goes. If you're using local unpasteurised honey, you could do one jar of must with the wild yeast from the honey itself, which would be teeming with it, and then you could do one jar of sanitised must (microwave it with the lid on but ajar so you don't lose too much aromatics, then cool it in the fridge) and leave it outside to collect yeast.

It would be really interesting to see what grows in it and how it tastes, since honey is nutrient bare. Only the really hardy organisms will grow in the honey must, which may or may not be a good thing.

jaapie said:

And do a positive control too, with yeast you use a lot. Unopened controls only give info about if the contamination is already in the jar. Still a good control though, dont get me wrong.

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Great idea -- I second the positive control! The chance of a wild yeast tasting like Chico or whatever yeast you brew with most commonly is pretty small. If you get a similar taste, you can just throw it out.

As for the yeast in honey, I was told a while back that they are osmotolerant yeast like Schizosaccharomyces, and don't do so well in a diluted honey must. I don't know how factual this is, but it makes sense -- sucrose is one thing you can use in the lab to give cells osmotic stress. Cells adapted to live in honey may even burst once the honey is diluted.

But there may be some Saccharomyces spores in there. I bet if you boil water in a flask, let it cool, then pour some honey in there and shake it up, you'll get something to grow.

And do something like a (poor-mans) flocculation test to compare as well. Take some fermenting beer with your yeast, shake it up, and pour it in a long cylinder, like you use to measure gravity. Best is a fully transparant one. Wait a while, and see if it differs. Record how fast they "fall". Best to wait until fermentation is done. Take some high floccers, and some low floccers as well, again as controls. Without some genetic analysis you are never sure, but you should try to get as many handles on it as possible. Might as well do this if you have some beer fermenting right?

Another thing is giant colony analysis, if you have the means to pour plates and let single colonies grow until they are humongous. Different strains might look different.

drummstikk said:

Great idea -- I second the positive control! The chance of a wild yeast tasting like Chico or whatever yeast you brew with most commonly is pretty small. If you get a similar taste, you can just throw it out.

As for the yeast in honey, I was told a while back that they are osmotolerant yeast like Schizosaccharomyces, and don't do so well in a diluted honey must. I don't know how factual this is, but it makes sense -- sucrose is one thing you can use in the lab to give cells osmotic stress. Cells adapted to live in honey may even burst once the honey is diluted.

But there may be some Saccharomyces spores in there. I bet if you boil water in a flask, let it cool, then pour some honey in there and shake it up, you'll get something to grow.

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That's very interesting. Though I do imagine there are hundreds of organisms present in honey that both can't survive in diluted media and that don't ferment sugar in a pleasant way.

Another thing to note is that honey is mainly composed of monosaccharides, which, if I remember correctly, are the only things that Kloeckera apiculata can ferment, and they do it extremely quickly. I would not be surprised at all if you ended up with a nearly pure culture of it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Just set out a bunch of mason jars with some starter wort. Really excited to see how this turns out.

just checked gravity on my latest wild - it's a sour saison. 1.064 OG, 1.006 now after 30 days... gonna let it hang for another week and if no movement, it gets bottled... nearly 93% AA... super attenuative.

taste is excellent, tropical fruits - mango, pineapple... slight sour tang (soured a small portion of the mash) - not much funk, small brett influence.

did an identical batch (same wort) with 100% brett-c - that one only attenuated down to 1.010 for now.

A day later and there is something that looks suspiciously like yeast sediment in a couple jars. Is that possible? Or is this probably brewing yeast from my apartment?

Who knows. Taste it and you'll likely find out.

thasnazzle said:

A day later and there is something that looks suspiciously like yeast sediment in a couple jars. Is that possible? Or is this probably brewing yeast from my apartment?

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Well, where did you leave them?

On the window sill of my second floor apartment. I got a bit of mold so before trying it I'm gonna put it in some fresh dme.

I set out about a gallon of second runnings for around 18 hours before pouring them into a sanitized jug and covering:


Cool ship by danasieg, on Flickr


On around day five there was a thick krausen, and the wort was very active - so I was encouraged indeed:

5 days by danasieg, on Flickr

Now, on day eight, I have a nice layer of what I am sure is yeast on the bottom of the jug:

Day 8 by danasieg, on Flickr

The thing is that it stinks. I am pretty sure I do not have e.coli since it does not smell overly fecal (I can hold my nose over the jug and smell deeply without gagging, etc.). It smells kinda hot and a little rotten (not much unlike sour beers while they are working). I am pretty sure there is lacto and other bugs in there.

I am considering washing the trub, etc. out and then repitching the yeast into another starter. I am not expecting a "clean" beer if I am able to use this, but think removing the yeast from this wort may be helpful at this point.

I am also wondering if leaving it in there will help the yeast take over from what ever else is living in there. My understanding is that this takes 2 weeks. The yeast does not seem that active any more now.

Thoughts?
Ideas?

The wild is a treacherous place.

merkinman said:

I set out about a gallon of second runnings for around 18 hours before pouring them into a sanitized jug and covering:


Cool ship by danasieg, on Flickr


On around day five there was a thick krausen, and the wort was very active - so I was encouraged indeed:

5 days by danasieg, on Flickr

Now, on day eight, I have a nice layer of what I am sure is yeast on the bottom of the jug:

Day 8 by danasieg, on Flickr

The thing is that it stinks. I am pretty sure I do not have e.coli since it does not smell overly fecal (I can hold my nose over the jug and smell deeply without gagging, etc.). It smells kinda hot and a little rotten (not much unlike sour beers while they are working). I am pretty sure there is lacto and other bugs in there.

I am considering washing the trub, etc. out and then repitching the yeast into another starter. I am not expecting a "clean" beer if I am able to use this, but think removing the yeast from this wort may be helpful at this point.

I am also wondering if leaving it in there will help the yeast take over from what ever else is living in there. My understanding is that this takes 2 weeks. The yeast does not seem that active any more now.

Thoughts?
Ideas?

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It seems like a success, if it is indeed all wild.. Did you do any gravity measurements before/after? Where does the two weeks come from? Why would it be helpful to move the beer off the yeast now?

jaapie said:

It seems like a success, if it is indeed all wild.. Did you do any gravity measurements before/after? Where does the two weeks come from? Why would it be helpful to move the beer off the yeast now?

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This is what happens (from Lambic by Guinard):

(3 to 7 days) Enteric Bacteria and Kloeckera Apiculata
(2 weeks) Saccharomyces
(3 to 4 months) Lactic Acid Bacteria
(8 months) Brettanomyces plus Pichia, Candida, Hansenula and Cryptococcus

As for why it would be helpful to decant now, that was my question. My thoughts were that it may be better to remove the yeast from the other bacteria in the jug (knowing that I cannot completely separate it), or to leave it in there for at least two weeks (per above source) to see if the saccharomyces completely takes over and reduces the stink.

I am favoring leaving it since the others who had success on this thread seem to have left it alone for at least that long.