Apfelwein keeps getting stuck

I've done 2 batches of Apfelwein and they both got stuck at 1.009. I've heard they are supposed to get below 1. I've tried shaking it up and warming it up to about 69 for 8 weeks.

What yeast are you using?

Red Star Montrachet

Assuming the yeast was rehydrated properly, that is odd. Are you sure your scale is working properly? It could be a matter of too little corn sugar. Also, is the brand of apple juice you use 100% juice with no preservatives (excluding ascorbic acid)?

I make sure to use apple juice with no preservatives and use 2 lbs of corn sugar. I didn't weigh the sugar though because at the time I didn't have a scale yet (I do now). I just tossed in 2, 1 lb bags.

I'll make sure I weigh the sugar this time I guess.

llazy_llama said:

Assuming the yeast was rehydrated properly, that is odd. Are you sure your scale is working properly? It could be a matter of too little corn sugar. Also, is the brand of apple juice you use 100% juice with no preservatives (excluding ascorbic acid)?

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Curious - how would too little sugar make it stick? Upping the sugar (in my mind) only increases how much alcohol there will be in the end. In fact, I would say it was the opposite problem, too much sugar = too much alcohol = dead yeast, except that shouldn't be a problem with 2 lbs of sugar and Montrachet.

Next question I have is if there were any preservatives, how did start fermenting at all?

CandleWineProject said:

Curious - how would too little sugar make it stick? Upping the sugar (in my mind) only increases how much alcohol there will be in the end. In fact, I would say it was the opposite problem, too much sugar = too much alcohol = dead yeast, except that shouldn't be a problem with 2 lbs of sugar and Montrachet.

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Yes, but this is wine yeast. It can handle up to 15% ABV I believe. More sugar = more alcohol = lower gravity. Alcohol is less dense than water. And the fact that they both got stuck at the exact same number makes me think this is the cause.

CandleWineProject said:

Next question I have is if there were any preservatives, how did start fermenting at all?

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Not sure I understand what you are asking. There weren't any preservatives except for ascorbic acid.

Mountainbeers said:

Yes, but this is wine yeast. It can handle up to 15% ABV I believe. More sugar = more alcohol = lower gravity. Alcohol is less dense than water. And the fact that they both got stuck at the exact same number makes me think this is the cause.

Not sure I understand what you are asking. There weren't any preservatives except for ascorbic acid.

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I don't know beer yeasts at all, but Montrachet should be able to handle the amount of sugar you had in there, and I stated that. I still don't understand how upping the sugar content would have solved your problem of it sticking.

As for the preservatives, Llazy_llama asked if there were preservatives. I was apparently too subtitle in trying to say you would have never gotten it to ferment in the first place if there were preservatives.

CandleWineProject said:

I don't know beer yeasts at all, but Montrachet should be able to handle the amount of sugar you had in there, and I stated that. I still don't understand how upping the sugar content would have solved your problem of it sticking.

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Because maybe it's not sticking. Maybe it fermented out all the way but the lack of sugar resulted in a lack of alcohol. ie a gravity too high.

CandleWineProject said:

As for the preservatives, Llazy_llama asked if there were preservatives. I was apparently too subtitle in trying to say you would have never gotten it to ferment in the first place if there were preservatives.

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Yea sorry I just figured you had read when I answered that question the first time.

hydrometer tested?

temperature correction?

Its not the sugar.

You may have run out of nutrients. The yeast need nitrogen as well as sugar. If you have a low nitrogen juice then the yeast may quit before the sugar is finished

How is the taste? If you like the taste, then dont worry. The most common question I see on this forum is how to backsweeten an apfelwein that got too dry. So if you like the taste you are good. If it is too sweet for your taste than add a small bit of DAP. But most folks I know would be pretty happy with a juice/sugar/yeast mix that quits at 1.009 on its own without having to cold crash

CvilleKevin said:

Its not the sugar.

You may have run out of nutrients. The yeast need nitrogen as well as sugar. If you have a low nitrogen juice then the yeast may quit before the sugar is finished

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Ahhhh. I was looking at Andrew Lea's website and realized he has a page on the topic. http://www.cider.org.uk/nitro.htm. He says, "Yeast also needs the nitrogen-containing vitamin thiamin (vitamin B1) which plays an essential role as a co-factor during fermentation particularly in the final enzymic conversion of pyruvate to ethanol. Both materials are in short supply in traditional apple juice - so much so that hanging a side of meat in a vat of cider whose fermentation had 'stuck' was once regarded as a normal procedure in English farmhouse cidermaking, because the meat provided both the amino acids and the vitamins which the juice was lacking. There are quaint stories of stuck ciders becoming reactivated after rats drowning in the vats - presumably the extra nitrogen from the corpses was sufficient to get the yeast going again! "

So, I have got to remember not to add yeast nutrient when I want stuff to finish out sweeter than dry.

the SG has nothing to do with the actual amount of alcohol in the solution. The SG only measures the amount of sugar that is in the liquid... so how much sugar (unless you added more than the yeast could handle) should have no effect on the FG at all...