Primary Fermenter = Bottling Bucket?

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BrewOnBoard

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So here's my idea. Take a clear, food grade 6gal bucket and install a tap in the bottom. It will be used as my primary fermenter for 5 gallon batches and kits. If I don't feel the need to transfer to a secondary it can hang out there and when it's ready to go into the bottle I can just use the tap at the bottom to dispense into the bottles. Now the questions:

Can one easily drill and fit a tap into a food grade bucket? I know it can't be hard but I want to make sure that it's just a screw on seal and doesn't involve plastic welding or such.

What about that "scunge" that forms on the top that is affectionately called krausen? Does it stay at the top where it's out of the way or does it drop to the bottom when the yeastie-beasties are done? The reason I ask is because even though I've brewed a few batches (at an on-premises place) I've never watched the process. If they sink to the bottom that might be a problem when I try and dispense from the tap at the bottom of the bucket.

Any other problems with my proposed setup? I'm trying to figure out a compact system and wish to "tap" everyone's experience before I invest, which will be soon. Very, very soon.....

BrewOnBoard (currently enjoying a second Jolly-Roger Christmas Ale by Maritime Brewery) DAMN this stuff is like Absinthe!:fro::mug::drunk::rockin:
 
I'm no expert but the additional step of moving the beer to a bottling bucket is more than worth the headache filling out of primary would cause you IMHO. All the trub and yeast usually drops to the bottom of the bucket, so to avoid having your trub cover (or partially cover) the spout would require you to drill fairly high up the side of the bucket. To get that 'last bit' of beer you'd have to tilt and tilting would mean your last bottle would be all yeast.

Not to mention the difficulty in getting your priming sugar into the solution. You'd have to dump it in and stir (or something) to get it to mix with the beer and stirring will rouse the yeast off the bottom of the primary and again, you're bottling a lot of yeast. Granted, you need yeast in your bottles to carb the beer, but not as much as you'll likely get.

But what do i know, i'm sure you aren't the first to try and i'm sure some people will continue to do the method you've suggested.
 
Hmmm.... I suspected that the little trubs dropped to the bottom. If that's the case then what's the idea behind the Better Bottles with the handy taps on them?
BoB
 
I recommend that if you are bottling that you either get a second primary bucket or you should always secondary if you only have the one primary bucket. Your first bottle will be full of yeasties as well as the last couple. To guarantee an even distribution of your priming sugar you want to make sure that it's well mixed with the beer. Pouring into the primary will put far more trub/yeast in your bottles than you want. I have drilled 2 of my buckets for the spouts. It's no big deal. The spigots that I got were plastic and had rubber washers for both the inside and the outside of the bucket. No welding was necessary. I used a 1 inch spade bit and centered my hole 1.5 inches above the OUTSIDE of the bottom of the bucket. I used really fine grit sand paper to smooth out the edges of the hole, sanitized the hell out of it and put the spigot on. No muss, no fuss.

The idea behind the better bottle with the spigot is that many people use carboys as secondaries. There is much lower level of trub when you go to bottle or transfer to a tertiary. Thus using a spigot to bottle/keg straight from the BB is no big deal.

:tank:
 
Some ideas are best left in the brain... ;)

A year from now you'll realize what a waste it really is and that this question comes up at least every year.

Sure, it shows that the Christmas present brewers are thinking, but doing a search would have resulted in more info and replies for you to read before you had asked the question...;)

Different yeasts produce different levels of trub than others. Where do you place the hole? Too low and you can rack trub, too high you'll lose beer...
 
Some ideas are best left in the brain... ;)

A year from now you'll realize what a waste it really is and that this question comes up at least every year.

Sure, it shows that the Christmas present brewers are thinking, but doing a search would have resulted in more info and replies for you to read before you had asked the question...;)

Different yeasts produce different levels of trub than others. Where do you place the hole? Too low and you can rack trub, too high you'll lose beer...

Obviously not a fan of innovation. That kind of thinking wouldn't have gotten Thomas Edison very far. I asked the question because I am looking at different ideas to suit a specific purpose; brewing on a sailboat.

As for your suggestion to do a search, I bite my thumb at that. I see that all the time on forums, "try a search before you post" yet I posted in the "beginners brewing beer forum". I used to post frequently on a gun forum and when 9mm vs .45 came up for the 25th time in a week I ignored it if I was in the mood and imparted wisdom to the newbies if I felt the urge. The title of my post was pretty clear.

In spite of your tone (hidden behind smiley faces) I appreciate your responding to my question. I have learned some from your response.

BrewOnBoard (another Christmas present brewer)
 
Obviously not a fan of innovation. That kind of thinking wouldn't have gotten Thomas Edison very far. I asked the question because I am looking at different ideas to suit a specific purpose; brewing on a sailboat.

As for your suggestion to do a search, I bite my thumb at that. I see that all the time on forums, "try a search before you post" yet I posted in the "beginners brewing beer forum". I used to post frequently on a gun forum and when 9mm vs .45 came up for the 25th time in a week I ignored it if I was in the mood and imparted wisdom to the newbies if I felt the urge. The title of my post was pretty clear.

In spite of your tone (hidden behind smiley faces) I appreciate your responding to my question. I have learned some from your response.

BrewOnBoard (another Christmas present brewer)
I gave you the kudos for thinking, but also tried to relay the fact that this is not a new idea.

If you had done a search you may find what the other guy did...or didn't do. Since I have my preferred method (and don't care one way or the other), I won't check for myself. Therefore, recommending a path for you to research. ;)

I can see brewing on a house boat or a yacht, but a sailboat? I don't know how often you sail, but I would recommend against brewing on a sailboat since the wave movement will shake the fermenter and continually aerate the brew during fermentation. Not a good thing. ;)

As someone who's worked with (Army) weapons since 1972, the .45 has my vote and 9mm's are for wimps. Why just go for the kill when you can get a free maim too...:D
 
If you are brewing on board a boat I would recommend a tertiary vessel. There's still noticable trub on the bottom of a secondary. I know you are looking for compact so at the very least do a primary, secondary it, then use the first bucket to bottle. Too much swishing around on a boat to do otherwise and avoid the dreaded yeast farts. I don't care if you have a 50 mile an hour wind blowing across your blowhole...IT STICKS TO YOU, MAN!!! :D

:tank:
 
I can see brewing on a house boat or a yacht, but a sailboat? I don't know how often you sail, but I would recommend against brewing on a sailboat since the wave movement will shake the fermenter and continually aerate the brew during fermentation. Not a good thing. ;)

As someone who's worked with (Army) weapons since 1972, the .45 has my vote and 9mm's are for wimps. Why just go for the kill when you can get a free maim too...:D

My favorite gun is my custom stainless Kimber .45.

So all is forgiven. :D


As for recommending against brewing on a sailboat all I can say is

ARE YOU MAD!!!!!!!!!! I WILL FIND A WAY!!!!!!!!!!

BrewOnBoard
 
It would work - the Mr. Beer fermenter is basically the same thing...a primary/bottling bucket all in one. At bottling time you could just prime each bottle (so you don't have to stir it in and thus resuspend the yeast) and fill them from the spigot. It's not necessarily ideal for a home setup, but for your purposes of keeping equipment footprint to a minimum on a sailboat, it would certainly be serviceable. I'd keep the spigot a good 1-1.5 inches above the bottom to stay above the trub and just plan on losing that much beer.

If you did any dry hopping you'd want to use a steeping bag to keep them from clogging the spigot.
 
My favorite gun is my custom stainless Kimber .45.

So all is forgiven. :D


As for recommending against brewing on a sailboat all I can say is

ARE YOU MAD!!!!!!!!!! I WILL FIND A WAY!!!!!!!!!!

BrewOnBoard
Perhaps you could rig the primary to hang on a ball and socket. Maybe a swivel from a speedbag. That way it could move independently (like your inclinometer needle). I wouldn't trust the handle though you would have to make a sling.
 
I commend you for finding a way to brew on a sailboat. What a nice conundrum you have on your hands!

I understand that storage is an issue. You can make this work with two buckets of the same size: one bucket (with a lid that will accept and airlock) for your primary and one bucket for bottling. Get the same size buckets so they can be "stacked" for storage. The reason you need two is that you will have a thick layer of trub at the bottom of your primary when the beer is finished fermenting, thus making it impossible to mix your priming sugar into the beer. So, you need to put your priming sugar (first dissolved in a small amt of water) into the second bucket, and then transfer your beer from your primary into the bottling bucket. Make sure the sugar and the beer get mixed well in the second bucket. Bottle as usual.

The only way to prime your beer with one bucket is to prime each bottle individually. Sailboat or otherwise, this would be a major pain in your ass.

Also, my Glock 19 is just fine. I've no need to compensate by shooting a .45 :D

Good luck!
 
You know things have gotten really bad when there's a 9mm vs .45 debate on a brewing forum :D

For the record, I'm a .45 guy myself. .45 Long Colt that is...;)
 
So happens that Williams Brewing sells such a fermenter

SIPHONLESS FERMENTOR @ Williams Brewing

I would like to give it a try myself, but I use a water bath for 5 gallon batches and I have doubts about immersing the valve.

That's pretty much what I had in mind. So I couldn't tell from the picture and writeup, does it have a filter on the valve to keep out yeast trub? I wonder if I could make one similar to the SS mesh tube used on the home made mash-tuns.

BrewOnBoard
 
No filter - the yeast trub should be compacted enough at the bottom that it's not a worry - if it isn't it needs more time. That's why the spigot is an inch or so above the bottom of the bucket.

A filter fine enough to get out the yeast would be too restrictive to allow any kind of decent flow anyway, and if you filter it out you won't be able to bottle carb.
 
Use a solid pail and drain the fermented beer by shooting a hole with a 45 slug near the bottom. :D

Seriously...

If you can swing a 6 gallon ported Better Bottle, the valve and racking adapter are supposedly okay to submerse in water baths. That's roughly twice the price, but should also last twice as long as a pail.
 
Why does a 9mm clip hold so many rounds?
Cos you'll need all of em.
Springfield MilSpec m1911 here.

How big a boat are you aboard? I'm assuming since you call her a "boat," she's less than 50'? Is your cabin climate controlled? Will you be sailing the Carribean? George's Bank? The Sargasso? The vast Bering Sea? Basically, how do you plan to control fermentation temps?

Go to your local marine outfitter and get a gear net that'll fit snuggly over your fermenter and hang it overhead. As long as you stay out of really rough seas, this should keep the brew relatively stable.
 
Wait, you are simply describing an Ale Pail, right? They already make plastic buckets with spigots on them, that people use for fermenting, and for bottling. Am I missing something here?

Also, I cannot possibly see how you are going to get anything closely resembling clear beer on a sailboat. That said, I do remember seeing a device that sits on your dashboard, and holds your coffee. The design allowed the car to swerve without spilling the coffee. Now, this is not going to keep the beer from being shaken up, but will probably go a long way to keeping it from spilling, or sloshing up into the airlock.

The device was basically a cup holder mounted with swivel points in two directions at the top. If the car leaned one direction, the swivel point allowed the cup to remain level. If the car dipped toward the front back, the other swivel point did the same thing.

I'll see if I can dig up that device, or at least an image...
 
GAAAA!!:eek:

It's a magazine, not a clip.

Brian

I used to correct people all the time. then I gave up. Like it or not, English is a living language and is constantly evolving.
Plus, Americans are lazy, so 1 syllable will always win out over 3. :)

As for the gimbal cup holder idea, it'd likely have to be custom made. Which means expensive.
 
Wait, you are simply describing an Ale Pail, right? They already make plastic buckets with spigots on them, that people use for fermenting, and for bottling. Am I missing something here?

Also, I cannot possibly see how you are going to get anything closely resembling clear beer on a sailboat. That said, I do remember seeing a device that sits on your dashboard, and holds your coffee. The design allowed the car to swerve without spilling the coffee. Now, this is not going to keep the beer from being shaken up, but will probably go a long way to keeping it from spilling, or sloshing up into the airlock.

The device was basically a cup holder mounted with swivel points in two directions at the top. If the car leaned one direction, the swivel point allowed the cup to remain level. If the car dipped toward the front back, the other swivel point did the same thing.

I'll see if I can dig up that device, or at least an image...

Actually you're not missing anything. I've brewed before a bunch of times but am new to home-brew and the available tools of the trade. The ale-pail is basically proof of concept for me that I can ferment, condition and bottle from the same pale. Or I could use a BB and racking adapter, which does seem expensive... (BTW what are water baths and why is that a problem?)

The boat is a Formosa 41 and has a walk in closet, a large aft locker (think 4 guys playing poker) under the cockpit that can accommodate my brew setup. Climate control is a big problem. Heating is easier than cooling but I plan to sail to the Mediterranean via the tropics and the canal so there will be some times where it'll be hot.

I'm not too worried about the motion of the ocean disturbing the beer. I do seek out calm anchorages and I figure I'll just bottle on a calm day instead of during a force 10 storm. Though building a gimbaling setup for a fermenter does sound like a fun challenge.

BrewOnBoard
 
Look at a plastic conical like the Vessel or similar self standing one. With the conical you can dump the yeast as it collects so agitation is less of a problem. Then you could add the priming sugar directly to fermenter and mix.

The advantage of the racking port on the better bottle is that is has a short tube that can be adjusted to pull the beer from just above the trub, which you can see through the clear walls of the bottle. If your yeast settles to a reasonably compact trub then you should be able to bottle from one using carb-tabs in the bottles. With a regular spigot you will either leave alot of beer or bottle alot of trub. Either way the first bottle is likely to be quite cloudy.

The problem with brewing on a moving boat is that the constant motion will keep much of the yeast in suspension. I doubt you will be able to bottle clear beer unless you can sit in a very calm anchorage for about a week. You can either just live with the cloudy beer, or roll with it by making hefeweizen, dunkelweizen and weizenbocks. American wheat and Belgian Wit beers would also work. As long as you are not splashing the beer it should be fine.

Craig
 
Just get yourself one of these...
Home made beer, no mess, no fuss, fermented under pressure, so clean and hassle free.
I haven't seen or tried one, but from what I see on the internet, looks like the perfect solution for your boat...
http://www.williamswarn.com/

Oops, just saw now how old this thread is... Oh well...
 
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