Mesquite Molasses Beer

Careful pod selection, a coarser crush, low steeping temps, and using bentonite clay as a fining agent are the things I've been using to minimize tannins, but I'm interested in any other things I can do. I wonder if other fining agents are better at removing tannins, or if using a combination of fining agents would work better? It sounds from the link posted above that blood might be a better fining agent for tannins. That's something I wouldn't have considered adding to my beer, but it sure sounds cool

Mesquite is very susceptable to the mold that contains aflatoxins, just like peanuts. Without expensive lab tests, there's no way to know if the pods we harvest have aflatoxins in them or not. According to my friend who works as a toxicologist (who is also the author of the zymurgy article), using bentonite clay as a fining agent should remove most of any aflatoxins present, as well as many of the tannins. It does seem to help a lot with the tannins, and while it's highly unlikely that aflatoxin poisoning could become an issue from drinking mesquite beer, bentonite seems to be cheap insuarance against it. That's why I've been using bentonite, but I think maybe I'll try some additional fining agents as well.

Yeah the blood sounds interesting, but im not sure I could get over the fact there is ox blood in my brew. I hear we shouldn't use tiger blood. Good ole charlie taught me that one. Lol. Anyways. Yeah maybe we can try a few different fining agents and get a good mixture figured out. Looking forward to harvest time. And anyone in the vegas area maybe we can get together and go harvest when its time. PM me so we can work together.

After some more research it looks like plain ol gelatin is one of the best fining agents for tannins. I quit using it after it significantly reduced the hop aroma of an IPA, but I think I'll have to give it another shot.

Okay, here's the article from Zymurgy my prof sent me. Thanks to Jaellis for converting to jpeg.

Back in the early 1800's a Catholic priest introduced mesquite (Prosopis pallida) to Hawai`i. I have a few on my property but have no idea as to variety. But I will mess with them later in the summer when the beans begin to fall.

It's been here so long it has a Hawaiian name Kiawe

Very cool, I wonder how the species acts in the tropical environment vs the desert environment. What effect the environment has on the beans. Sorry I'm kind of a scientist type, just some questions that ran through my head.

Anyways thanks evanos for posting that and I look forward to reports later this summer.

Juan, after reading that post about blood and seeing your interest in using it it I am now seriously reconsidering coming over this weekend to brew.

arondee said:

Juan, after reading that post about blood and seeing your interest in using it it I am now seriously reconsidering coming over this weekend to brew.

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LOL, I may try to use the rest of the mesquite this weekend, but I won't need the blood until after fermentation.

So I was thinking, I wonder what other starches are in mesquite pods that we havnt considered. Would a 1 - 2 hour mash at 158 of the pods with added amylase produce any significant amount of sugar converted from any starches in the pod. Any one know if this would even be worth it?

Maybe Treat it like all grain, with some extra sugar.

Evanos, You wouldn't have that Zymurgy article in pdf form would you?

After digging around a bit on the net, I found a mesquite flour that claims to be made after removing the seeds and the membrane around them, using only the central part of the pod. Anyone think this might make a reasonable substitute for those of us who don't live anywhere we can get pods? There's no mention of what varieties are used.

http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/shiloh-farms-glutenfree-mesquite-flour-p-1153.html

Wow! Just found this post after a response on another post. I'm trying to come up with a southwest beer here's what I got so far, please give thoughts:

7lbs pilsner LME
1lbs Mesquite Pods Made into Syrup
1 lbs Wild Desert Honey
.5 lbs prickly pairs
(spices yet to be determined)
Lightly hopped 15-25 IBUS
T-58 yeast fermented @75-80 to get extra spicy

My Idea is for a Sonoran Saison. I'm not gunna use wild yeast. But I am thinking a good Belgian variant with heat tolerant properties would be appropriate for the desert. Maybe one day I'll get a good wild desert yeast but fore now I'll use something I know about. The mesquite syrup could be used instead of the candied sugar. Also, get some wild desert honey from T.J.'s. Not sure about the spice additions. And instead of orange use some prickly pair.:fro:

Not sure if the flour would work, it has the sugar but clarity would probably be an issue. Not sure about texture. There is also the issue of doughballs. Cost also seems high, but I can harvest myself so mine just cost time. Where do you live maybe there is a source somewhere within a short driving distance.

I was also noticing that some of the pods around vegas are just starting to brown almost harvest time!!! Anyone around vegas maybe we can get together for harvesting. PM me if you're interested.

vegas20s said:

Wow! Just found this post after a response on another post. I'm trying to come up with a southwest beer here's what I got so far, please give thoughts:

7lbs pilsner LME
1lbs Mesquite Pods Made into Syrup
1 lbs Wild Desert Honey
.5 lbs prickly pairs
(spices yet to be determined)
Lightly hopped 15-25 IBUS
T-58 yeast fermented @75-80 to get extra spicy

My Idea is for a Sonoran Saison. I'm not gunna use wild yeast. But I am thinking a good Belgian variant with heat tolerant properties would be appropriate for the desert. Maybe one day I'll get a good wild desert yeast but fore now I'll use something I know about. The mesquite syrup could be used instead of the candied sugar. Also, get some wild desert honey from T.J.'s. Not sure about the spice additions. And instead of orange use some prickly pair.:fro:

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Just a thought you might not need any spices. The mesquite has notes of cinnamon, cloves, and vanilla. With the prickly pears I think it would balance well with no other spices.

@Jaellis I'm in NYC. I'm pretty sure there's not any wild mesquite anywhere around here.

When I went back and looked at the page, I realized that the species is the South American one; the "varieties" are all different species, not true varieties. I may be better off ordering some pods and doing all the hard work, though I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'd like to hear some more about how some of these recipes turn out before deciding.

Jaellis said:

Just a thought you might not need any spices. The mesquite has notes of cinnamon, cloves, and vanilla. With the prickly pears I think it would balance well with no other spices.

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I'll have to take that into consideration.

I was also thinking of only punting in 2-4 pears. Instead of a full half pound.

vegas20s said:

I'll have to take that into consideration.

I was also thinking of only punting in 2-4 pears. Instead of a full half pound.

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I have never made a saison only studied how so don't take my word.

Well, the pods are both on the trees and on the ground. Do I want to collect them "green" from the trees or sun dried off the ground?

RiverBirchBrew said:

Well, the pods are both on the trees and on the ground. Do I want to collect them "green" from the trees or sun dried off the ground?

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Dried from the trees is best, but dried on the ground is ok too. If you have to pull, the beans are still too green and should be left on the tree. They should almost fall off into your bucket. The desert harvesters website has some great tips and suggestions for collecting mesquite pods.

vegas20s said:

I'll have to take that into consideration.

I was also thinking of only punting in 2-4 pears. Instead of a full half pound.

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The flavor from the pears is pretty mild, almost melon like, so even using 1/2# it would be hard to tell it's there. It will add some great purple color even in small quantities though.

My buddy told be about barrel cactus fruit. If I can find some I might use that instead. The description was lemon and kiwi flavors. Definitely more of the saison type of flavors.

Barrel cactus fruit is a little different than the Prickly Pear fruit. The Barrel cactus fruit is hollow with a bunch of black seeds in the center. The seeds are edible , not much flavor to them, but a good source of protein. The flavor is subdued. Some of the guys I work with were not that impressed with the flavor of the fruit. Here is a pic that I found on the web from someones blog when I was looking for a pic to post here.



I'm going to start colleting mesquite beans this next week and see how things work out.

LiquidGold said:

Barrel cactus fruit is a little different than the Prickly Pear fruit. The Barrel cactus fruit is hollow with a bunch of black seeds in the center. The seeds are edible , not much flavor to them, but a good source of protein. The flavor is subdued. Some of the guys I work with were not that impressed with the flavor of the fruit. Here is a pic that I found on the web from someones blog when I was looking for a pic to post here.


I'm going to start colleting mesquite beans this next week and see how things work out.

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Subdued is ok as long as you have enough. What was the taste like though? would it go well with the mesquite beans?

vegas20s said:

Subdued is ok as long as you have enough. What was the taste like though? would it go well with the mesquite beans?

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I haven't tasted any processed Mesquite yet. I've only chewed on a bean pod or two quite a while ago. I don't think it was from any of the three that seem to have the most flavor (Honey, Screwbean or Velvet). And just my luck none of the 7 to 8 Mesquite trees on my property are the flavorful ones.

I don't want to side track this thread. Let me just say that the flavor of the ones I have eaten had a faint taste of lemon/kiwi, and would probably be best crushed up in the secondary.

This is a great thread. I have about 120 acres of mesquite and cactus across the street from my house and for years I've been interested in finding ways to use both cactus and mesquite for food. Even living here in New Mexico there is little info to be found on ways to consume mesquite and cacti, aside from Prickly Pear mead or jelly.
How do you tell the species of mesquite? All of these are "native" I guess. I can't imagine anybody bringing non-native mesquite to this area.
BTW prickly pear is essentially flavorless, but it is colorful and will ferment nicely.

corkybstewart said:

How do you tell the species of mesquite? All of these are "native" I guess. I can't imagine anybody bringing non-native mesquite to this area.

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They are most likely honey mesquite in your area. Honey mesquite have larger leaves with more space between them, and wider pods that dry to a honey color. Velvet mesquite have smaller leaves that are very close to each other, and thinner lighter colored pods that can sometimes have pink or purple streaks. Screwbean mesquites are easy to identify from the corkscrew shaped pods. The Chilean mesquite looks a lot like the honey mesquite but has lighter colored pods and much longer thorns.

I have a copy of the article here - http://arizonahikers.com/GTG/Sower2002HomebrewingIndigenousBeveragesoftheSouthwestZymurgy.pdf
If anyone needs it. ( I think JuanMoore sent it to me a while back? )

I was planning on the toasting and making extract per the instructions but wanted to use 2 lbs of pods for a barley wine recipe. I just wonder if that will leave it too sweet?

GTG

RiverBirchBrew said:

Evanos, You wouldn't have that Zymurgy article in pdf form would you?

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GTG said:

I have a copy of the article here - http://arizonahikers.com/GTG/Sower2002HomebrewingIndigenousBeveragesoftheSouthwestZymurgy.pdf
If anyone needs it. ( I think JuanMoore sent it to me a while back? )

I was planning on the toasting and making extract per the instructions but wanted to use 2 lbs of pods for a barley wine recipe. I just wonder if that will leave it too sweet?

GTG

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Even roasted the sugars will be pretty fermentable. IMO 2-3# is about right for a 5 gal batch.

thataintchicken said:

wow. great information.
I remember reading something about Pinole in the past, but I never thought about brewing with mesquite pods.

Thanks for a great thread.

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I grew up in Pinole! Graduated from Pinole Valley HIgh.


For those who don't know:

Pinole is a Spanish translation of an Aztec word for a coarse flour made from ground toasted maize kernels, often in a mixture with a variety of herbs and ground seeds, which can be eaten by itself or be used as the base for a beverage.

I have been thinking about this a lot. I have a ton of mesquite on my land. I made jelly last year and it reminded me of honey. Im thinking about trying a honey brown recipe minus the honey and include a mesquite syrup.

Kiawe beans on the ground here. Might begin to harvest some real soon.

So I put my pods in the oven tonight at 350 as the article suggests. In about 10 minutes I had smoke billowing from the oven. SWMBO was not happy. I did get some roastiness on the pods, some more than others. I'm going to give them a try in any case. Between the mix of dark and light, I should get a decent in between roast taste. I think I will get another bucket full to put away to make another batch or two this coming winter though. I'm pretty certain mine are honey mesquite from th information that I've looked up. If anyone out there is interested in them and don't have them available in your area, I'd be happy to gather some up for a trade.

GTG

Here's a picture of my results. You can see a pod in the middle of the picture that shows the pod color before toasting. -

I'm going to try these in a brew and see what I get.
More information - I've been drying these for a while in the garage, the garage smelled like cookies for a while because of them. I've had mesquite cookies and tortillas and these pods smell the same as them. This should make for an interesting ingredient. My first recipe is for a dark wheat hybrid and my second recipe will be for a mesquite barleywine hopefully.
GTG

I am definitely going to give this a shot. I have several mesquites on my propert, and probably have an endless supply with thousands of acres of BLM land less than 3 miles from my house...Excellent thread, thanks for the info!

As the Zymurgy articke suggests, the honey and velvet mesquites seem to have a very high sugar content. I have tasted a number of pods and those two do seem to be sweeter.

On my way home for lunch I noticed that the mesquites have large green pods on them right now, but only in a small area. The rest of the mesquites are barren. I can probably get plenty for a batch of beer but is this normal?

Quite normal, there are many different types of mesquite that all flower and fruit at different times.
According to the article listed above, your best results will be from pods that look like this -
Honey Mesquite


Or Velvet Mesquite -


When you bite into one, they will taste sweet. When you have a bunch of them in a bucket they will smell like cookies. I'm sure the other types of mesquite pods will work, they just don't have the sugar content.

GTG

corkybstewart said:

On my way home for lunch I noticed that the mesquites have large green pods on them right now, but only in a small area. The rest of the mesquites are barren. I can probably get plenty for a batch of beer but is this normal?

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I'm going to make a mesquite wheat today. I'll post up results.

GTG

Steeped the 2 lbs of pods in 1 gallon of water at 155 for 90 minutes.
Topped up to 2.5 gallons
3 lbs Wheat DME at start of boil
1/2 oz Mt Hood
1/2 oz Hersbrucker
1/2 oz Mt Hood
3 lbs Wheat DME at 15 min to go
.75 lb piloncilo sugar at 15 min to go
Trappist Yeast